pls help!appeal hearing soon.

[laingy]

well guys,thanks for all your help and advice,compiled our plan now.of to london tomorrow for meeting thursday at 9am.

wishing us luck.

cheers again,will let you no outcome as soon as we back.

laingy

[honeybee13]

Fingers crossed for you and your men, laingy. I look forward to hearing how it goes. Sock it to 'em!

 

HB x

[laingy]

hi all,

 

sorry in delay in letting you all know the outcome.

 

Basically after 2hours of the meeting being conducted the outcome was as follows.

 

wether he has a contract or not it would had no bearing on the outcome as it was "theft".

 

they covered up all there "procedurral errors".

 

The fact that his manager did the same thing the week before(on a far worse scale) and they we aware of it(as he got in there to tell them,to cover himself) they said "thats how they work".

however they did not see fit for them to allow my son to do it.

 

"beneficial favours to the company" to them means when they see fit !

 

they informed us that they had been investigating all sub-contractors and "unfortunately" my son got caught up in that fact and basically gave them what they were looking for.

 

they did say on one hand they felt sympathy for my son and it was unfortunate.

 

when asked for all copies of eg.employment contracts,disaplinary procedures,evidence of all etc.

there reply to that was"so you are going to make us do 6 months work for nothing as it was theft.

 

this next bit is the stinger.

 

if we were to choose to continue with the appeal they would get the police involved.

 

BLACKMAIL

 

they knew they failed him,never protected him or themselves,they also knew we had a good case for all our reasons,but choose to comeback with a blackmail.

 

my son has learned a very harse lesson by this,never trust anyone,dont assume that when a manager is training you what he does is acceptable.

 

so we were stuffed!

 

im sure you will have comments on this.

 

cheers for all your support and advice anyway.

 

laingy

[honeybee13]

How frustrating for you laingy. This sounds like a stitch up. I'm sure there will be comments, hope the swearing filter is switched on!

 

Do you have any of this in writing? I don't like their attitude at all, but having been on this forum for a while, am not all that surprised, sadly. Some people seem to stop at nothing.

 

All of this is outside my experience, but remind us how long ago the alleged theft was? And if they call in the police, do they have evidence?

 

So they admitted they never did all the paperwork when your son joined? I don't know where that leaves them legally, as it's still a requirement. Anyone?

 

There are lots of unfair aspects to this, but the complication is the police, isn't it? I hope someone will have comments on this later.

 

My best to you and your son. x

[elpulpo]

What a shower of whatevers, eh?

 

They're having a laugh saying they will get the police involved.

The police wouldn't be remotely interested in a bloke on a building site giving another bloke a piece of wood.

If you can get proof of them threatening that it would really help your case.

I'd wait until you get the written outcome of the appeal (if they can manage to send you that), then send them a letter before action.

[laingy]

honeybee he was stitched up!!

 

hubby asked at the start "was there anything to disclose" but they avoided that by telling him"your not allowed to speak".

however after a while everyone was speaking so he joined in, they were never going to show us anything.

 

lets be honest they didnt need to ,there ace up the sleeve was the word "police". and they knew that !!!

they could of been bluffing,but we are not prepared for my son to have a criminal record,and they knew that !!!!

 

yes it was "theft" as such but with very much mitagating circumstances.

 

They have used him as a scape goat without a doubt,by getting him they got the sub-contractor they were investigating and as we were led to believe over a period of time he has had a fair bit of stuff from various sites.

cheers

laingy

[laingy]

elpulpo,

understand what you are saying,

but they could potientially prosecute,as he openly admitted giving it away.

thats were the blackmail came in.

in other words"we no you can get us on no contract etc,etc,etc,

BUT if you do we will have you done.

 

our hands our tied.

yes a SHOWER OF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[honeybee13]

Hi laingy. Don't give up yet. I see what Elpulpo is getting at and wonder how impressed the police would be if they got mixed up in this. And if they called in the police, wouldn't that end up involving the sub-contractor for receiving stolen goods? And then, would they end up finding the manager who handed over far more?

 

I quite see your son doesn't want a criminal record, but maybe there's a way round this. Do we have anyone who understands police procedures and the law?

 

I hope the rats confirm in writing. Of course if they don't, that could go against them?

[elpulpo]

Well, I just can't imagine that there would ever be a prosecution for what was an established practice of essentially barter over an insignificant piece of building material.

It's up to you, but if I was in your situation I'd call their bluff and go right ahead and pursue the matter.

 

Many years ago, I was in a similar position, I received a dismissal letter out of the blue, accusing me of theft for using the works phone. It stated that as long as I didn't pursue the matter they wouldn't take it any further, but were I to take legal action against them then they'd report me to the police for theft.

I showed it to a friend of mine who worked for the CPS, and he said straight away that the very fact that they'd made such a conditional threat would entirely compromise the legitimacy of any complaint.

 

They can't hold an allegation of criminal action like a joker to play when it suits them. As you say, it's blackmail.

When did the incident occur, or when did they discover it had occured? If they haven't reported it yet, they're knackered.

[honeybee13]

Laingy, re-reading your first post, the 'theft' was in January and the sub-contractor came in shortly afterwards, admitted his involvement and paid for the said plywood? Is that right?

 

How's about that, Elpulpo?

[laingy]

honeybee firstly,

they wouldnt do the manager for more,as they covered up his story!

 

elpulpo,

they donot agree on "established practice"as my son was lead to believe,they have just twisted the practices to suit there needs.

 

no-one ever reported the piece of ply as missing,but did question my son on a door that went missing over the same weekend.

the fact the site was left open anyone could have taken it from the fri-sun.

my son informed them "he didnt no anything about a door ,but openly admitted on giving away the piece of ply,as he though he was doing no wrong".

[elpulpo]

Exactly, it's 2 months ago. I think the first question the police would ask is, 'why haven't you reported it sooner?'.

[elpulpo]

I'd suggest that you seek a free, initial consultation with an employment law specialist and run it by them. If you can see a few, even better.

[laingy]

honeybee,you right.

he did pay for it on the monday.

 

however at the meeting on thursday they asked my son,

"why didnt you pay for it,seems as though it was you who took it"

 

in hindsight,he prob should of,but then again why wasnt he advised to do that when firstly unofficially asked about the door.

 

because they wanted to "close pandora,s box" as such and make him a scape goat for everboby else!!!

[honeybee13]

Laingy, I think it's Don't Get Mad, Get Even time.

 

You saw a lawyer before, and BRB gave you some links to other legal help. I agree with Elpulpo, it's time to see a specialist. If the company write some or all of this down, a lawyer could have a field day. They will probably also have experience of companies threatening the police and have insight into theft and other legal issues.

 

A lawyer will be far enough removed from this not to be intimidated, they're used to this kind of threat.

 

Go for it. x

[laingy]

you could be right.

 

We all just feel really wreary of it all now.

 

could we stand going through another 3-6months of this and to be told we got 50-50 chance.

 

the word "police" rageing its ugly head is so intimidating.

 

going to have to sleep on this i think.

 

think my son,just now wants to draw a line under it and try and get on with his life.

 

forgot to say,thay have agreed to say the reason of them parting company they are prepared to change to "mutual agreement".

 

now cos the felt a bit sorry for him,are they doing that as a favour to maybe help him career wise or cos they no we got a case.?

 

its just mind games.

 

head wrecking !

[elpulpo]

 

forgot to say,thay have agreed to say the reason of them parting company they are prepared to change to "mutual agreement".

 

now cos the felt a bit sorry for him,are they doing that as a favour to maybe help him career wise or cos they no we got a case.?

This lot are commiting legal suicide!

 

On the one hand they're threatening him with the police, yet they're offering to state the reason for his leaving as 'mutual agreement'?!

 

They know damn well he's got a case against them.

 

Ask for a reference.

Once you've got 'mutual agreement' in writing, you're on dry land.

[laingy]

elpulpo does that not mean though once we have signed that we agree

case closed in effect.

 

they are loooking into a reference, they said.

[elpulpo]

elpulpo does that not mean though once we have signed that we agree

case closed in effect.

 

they are loooking into a reference, they said.

 

Ah. Definitely don't sign anything with them saying that you settle the matter by agreeing to the reference, or anything else.

 

Just try and get a reference from them.

[elpulpo]

This is looking very like what happened to me as stated in post #59.

I received a letter saying,

"We're dismissing you with immediate effect for Gross Misconduct/Theft.

Don't even think about taking it to Tribunal or we'll have the police on ya.

But hey, no hard feelings mate, we still want ya to play squash for the club, and if ya need a reference that's no problem".

Doesn't add up, does it?

That's because the real reason for my dismissal was that they wanted to give my job to someone else, and when they'd offered me 2 months wages to quit, I'd said no.

 

The employer here offering to state the reason for departure as 'mutual agreement' completely undermines the validity of the dismissal.

If they felt he was genuinely guilty of theft, there's no way they'd offer that.

[honeybee13]

Hi guys, just tuned back in. I wonder if the employer means a compromise agreement, or just a reference. Laingy, I think this could be gold dust.

 

When you feel less worn out by it all and maybe you've heard from these idiots, see what's on offer and if you want to pursue it or not. I agree with Elpulpo, to threaten the police and then offer to write about mutual agreement doesn't stack up.

 

Please let us know next time you hear something, or with any other questions you come up with.

 

My best.