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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Littlefellow Contractual vs NatWest

andrew1

By andrew1
in NatWest Bank

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
Posted

Data Protection Act sent 28th Aug

Statements arrv'd and analysed

Prelim sent 28th Aug: seeking Contractual rate of 29.5% ( fingers crossed):

 

NAT WEST

GOGARBUREN

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re Account XXXXXXX

 

I thank you for forwarding my statements for the above account. I would appreciate if you would now forward the enclosed request for repayment of said charges to the relevant department.

 

Having analysed the statements I am writing to ask the Bank to refund to me the charges which have been levied from my account over the last six years.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

 

I calculate that you have taken £1263.40 plus £1657.44 which I have calculated is the interest at your rate( 29.5%) for unauthorised borrowing for the sum which you have taken from me. Total £2910.84.

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment that will effectively be 6th September.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Lets see what happens. Used the contractual rate rather than the 8% route.

 

Adding Penalty charges of £1263.40 to Interest on penalties £416.78 and then interest @ 29.5 to both Totalling £2910.84.

 

I know I cannot add 8% at court shoulkd it get that far.

Thanks to Vamp for the spreadsheet - seem to have my head around that one now!

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dolly

dolly

Posted
Posted
Can a MOD put this in NatWest thread as posted in Nationwide thread.

 

The mods were alerted to it earlier today...they must not have got round to doing it yet.

Please note that I am not a legal expert and all advice given is without prejudice and is purely my opinion only.

 

** Nationwide - £1821.15-PAID IN FULL - Aug 06 **

** Halifax Mortgage -£390 - PAID IN FULL - Nov 06 **

Lloyds TSB - MCOL issued 09/03/07 - £2953 + costs - ON HOLD....

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

This is the letter received back from NatWest after prelim letter.

 

 

 

Customer Relations Ground Floor Facsimile: 020 8236 8010

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Our ref: Borehamwood WD6 ITE

Your ref:

NatWest

xx August 2006

Dear Mrxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx August 2006 and I apologise for any dissatisfaction caused by the application of charges to your account.

We believe that our charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. We consider that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with us and our published tariff which, we are satisfied, complies with all applicable laws and regulations. We are also committed to ensuring the transparency of the information that we give to our customers about the operation of our products.

 

“ The bank is under no obligation to explain how its charges are calculated and we are not prepared to enter into any correspondence on this matter. The compilation is a confidential commercial matter. “ ( Can you believe this? )

 

We have considered the Office of Fair Trading’s statement of 5 April 2006 and do not accept its findings in relation to the setting of credit card fees. We are concerned that the Office of Fair Trading has publicly called into question the setting of charges applied to other products, including current accounts. The Office of Fair Trading has restricted its investigation to credit cards and made no attempt to consult with the ABS Group or the industry in relation to other entirely different products.

Consequently, against that background, we must differ with the views you have expressed and will not be refunding any of the charges applied to your bank account.

 

Having reviewed your account, I can find no instance where charges have been applied when they were not properly due. They have all been associated with a lack of covering funds in the account at the time items were presented for payment. Accordingly, the charges that have been applied to your account must stand.

 

I am disappointed to note that you are contemplating legal action against the bank. Whilst I hope you will feel able to reconsider, should you decide to go ahead, please ensure that any Proceedings are served on our Registered Office address, which appears at the foot of this letter.

I suspect that this is unlikely to be the answer you might have hoped to receive but nonetheless thank for taking the time and trouble to contact us.

 

Yours sincerely

Stuart Higley

Customer Relations

 

 

What do you think - LBA? or do I go back with a second chance for negotiation?

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

I'd stick to your timetable - no second chances IMO!

 

Also you are using the 29% is it ok to do that? Wow if it is then I can't wait for the statements from 2000 - 2002!

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I've been following the thread ' a new way of looking at interest ' http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/7252-new-way-looking-interest.html it's the difference between claiming the interest they charged + the 8% through court and charging them what they charge us, although you cant ask for the 8% if it goes to court as well.

 

There's some interesting thoughts on the - like for like- issues what's good for the banks is good for us so to speak. When presenting to court though one would need to request to the court that the bank pay interest at the contractual rate or at the courts discretion at 8%.

 

I know what I should do, just sue them but it's good to get feedback from people because each of these letters that get written tell another story. I haven't seen any yet which state that they have no obligation to disclose their charges and how they are made up . That's amazing.

 

I just want to know what I should write back if at all and all thoughts and suggestions are welcome....

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

I find it incredible too that they say they are under no obligation to disclose their charges - I was sure they were since they do note they will "from time to time" publish new rates in the press when you sign up with them in the T&C's - or at least they USED to. Check the T&C's and ensure they aren't under any obligation to disclose.

 

Surely they MUST at least disclose their charges to their customers or they can just slap any old price on anything - "customer charges £50" (you breathe air while in a branch and are being charged for it).

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

I'll bump and hope someone else can help with this.

 

I would have said that while it IS confidential it directly relates to you and that you have requested this under the S.A.R and they have to comply.

 

I could be very wrong - what we need is Natweststaffmember or someone else to give advice here. I'm sorry that I'm no expert and that my replies are very much guesses, I'm hoping to learn from your experience with this too.

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

OK reading another thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/21849-warms-natwest-2.html this looks very much like the standard bog off letter - was it from stuart wossisname?

 

Issue your LBA now and stick to your timetable to show you mean business.

  • Confused 1

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well spotted ! Thank you. Stuart Higley is the culpret, yes. This letter makes me really angry and yes it's exactly the same as the one you pointed me to. I think the Mods ought to see this letter it's unbelievable.

LBA on its way.

 

I would really like to have had some expert jargon in the letter responding to this, I'll try and dig some up but there are people on here with a far better way with legal words than I can easily come up with.

 

As for the S.A.R. I don't think they have to provide a breakdown of their charges with this request, just the information they hold on you. But they do have an obligation in my opinion to explain their charges and justify them as a matter of principle. Especially as under Common law they are breaking the law. I think they have lied enough about being ' transparent'. If this actually went to court and I asked for full disclosure then they would have to tell us and this is precisely why they will not defend - because they will not tell anyone what the ACTUAL costs are.

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

I'd just use the template letters - one of the best things about them (and I'll dig out the link in a min) is that it helps to keep your anger in check. I have just sent an LBA to do with my statements. It was a nice reminder template to say "hey you haven't done as request but its ok you still have 27 days to respond!" If they don't then they get the final one which is "give in 7 days or meet my friend, Ms Knee in your proverbial hoobajoos"

 

OK the templates library is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

If you aren't sure which letter to send follow the other threads which are at the same stage as you to so you send the right thing. It's very important to ensure you are sending the right thing at the right time.

 

If you are still stuck, the site chat (which works very well) is a good place to go but beware of pink pants.

 

Edit to say: if I didnt have the templates to follow I'd fail because I know that my anger would get the better of me and it would come across in my own composed correspondence. Once one openly loses ones temper one has instantly lost the fight. Try to stay calm if you can - I know its not easy but we'll all be here to cheer you on! :)

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks Lariele, If you'd been reading my threads since March ! :o you'll see I'm quite a composed sort of guy ! The trouble is it's so easy to get lost amongst all the wealth of experience and threads coming to the site with so many issues. I'm trying to get bank charges, credit card charges, a mortgage redemption,excessive PPI insurance premiums, work out the interest on them all, Default removals -and because I've told so many people about this site they all want me to do it for them too. AND I have a job to do although I work at home it's so easy to log on here for a few hours. I'm going around in a maze at times and if wasn't for people like you bringing me back to earth now and again I'd have gone mad!

 

Thanks ... I love it really - I've had one payout but that was through negotiation I'll be happier when the rest comes rolling in :-D

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

Urgh I should have researched you before replying as I did then! I'm so sorry that sounds like hell on earth! I'm dealing with another matter at the moment too - actually its a twofold matter; my other bank (the one I went to after nat west) gave some information about one of my accounts to an 'unnamed' 3rd party.

 

The staff member said the bloke had a solicitors letter but still she shouldn't have given it out - I'm a woman with a girly name. I'd be in shock to ever meet a bloke with my forename! They are at the moment negotiating with me for a compensatory fee (and likely hush money) but it actually turns out the man in question is my tenant (I'm a freeholder) and he lives upstairs from me!

 

He is selling his place; he is using the information he obtained that day (which actually was wrong - the bank screwed up twice, gave out info and gave out WRONG info) to withhold almost £600 from me. Its a huge mess, and I'm very close to litigating. His purchasor has said they will give him till tomorrow to pay up or they pull out.

 

I've felt terribly alone in all of this really (until now!), the treatment nat west gave me was horrible but frankly its nothing in comparison to what you appear to be going through (and many others here on this site too). When I settle with the other bank on the other matter, I'll be going after them for charges too =D

 

Well done you for staying composed, quite honestly I'd have completely lost it if I'd been you!!

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm not so sure - these are all like a challenge to me - I just lose my way a bit trying to get my head around things jumping from one to the other ( Its old age - does something to the grey matter !). When I settle down and concentrate on one at a time it becomes easier and fun actually. Your lot seems horrendous. Banks have been the bain of my life over the years when I was running businesses through the recession and the likes so I know they can be absolute beggars. If I knew then what I have learned from this forum the story would have been very different and I wouldn't have lost my business when I did.

 

My problem is even though I have read until I am blue in the face, I have to keep going back to refresh my mind.

 

Anyway, I don't let it get to me I just take each as a challenge and I'm going to just enjoy the experience. It empowers you to an incredible degree and there is so much support in this forum I don't know how some of the people actually spare the time to put so much in in such an unselfish way.

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Lariele

Lariele

Posted
Posted

I agree! Taking it one at a time and as a challenge is a great outlook. I also wish I'd known long ago what I have learned here. I've been so excited and happy to find this place (found when looking for "action against other bank" on google for the DPA breach) I've emailled our whole office with the details! (thats only about 15 people but hey 15 more into the pot all helps!).

 

My memory is horrid too, I'm glad we can come back here to find what we need and yes everyone here has been completely fantastic!

 

Good luck with the procedure, can't wait to get my "stuart Higley" eventually!

1 - 18 August 2006 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

2 - 29 Ausust 2006 - Statements dated October 2002 to July 2006 received. One single statement separately packaged dated August 2006 also received. No correspondence enclosed.

3 - 6 October 2006 - Statements prior to October 2002 to July 2000 received - thiscovers statute only

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  • 4 months later...
andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Right, time to start claiming again, I've been sitting on my hands and helping others out with DCA's but now's the time to get serious and sort ALL my claims out for myself. They must have thought I was one of those softies that just write the first couple of letters then vanish .... Big Mistake ... I've been preparing :D

 

Just gone over the old spreadsheets for this account and now upgraded to Vamps chambers Contractual Interest Compounded - brilliant - where is she? :( Just added another small fortune to the interest - over £1000 ! :D

 

So, I'm now sending another LBA with the new charges and see what Mr Stuart Higley has to say about it now. This time he has one chance and it's Moneyclaim time - no faffing about this time Mr Higley. Watch this space.....

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andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Good luck with this. Myself and littleangel along with Josamolly are on the same track. LBA going today. Lets keep each other posted on this.

 

Hey, that's very kind of you. I'd be happy to keep tracks with you guys.

 

The LBA I was sending was the one from the templates and I was going to tweek it as I last wrote in September and got their bog off letter, then I found myself entrenched in the Cabot DCA debates. Are you using the same letter & are you using the same spreadsheet off google Contractual & Compounded?

 

Where are you sending it too?

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  • 2 months later...
andrew1

andrew1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hallo again.. Now, despite having been on this forum for over a year this is the beginning of my FIRST N1 filing for a claim :eek:

 

I had decided to go down the contractual rate of 29.5%. according to Vamps contractual Google spreadsheet going from left to right I have:

 

a)Total Penalties charged of £1469.40

b)Interest on Penalties £2495.74

c)Bank interest on Penalties £766.99 and

d)Interest on Bank interest on Penalties £597.38

 

In the heading I have:

 

Total Penalties and Bank Interest on Penalties £2236.39 ( a) + © above

Total Interest £3093.12 (b) + (d) above.

 

Now, when it comes to the N1 claim form, on Bankfodders Particular of claim guide it says:

 

Charges £xxxxxx

Overdraft Interest £xxxxxxx

Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 £xxx.xx

Court Fee £xx.xx

 

TOTAL £ xx.xx

 

Plus interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 from date of issue to date of judgement/settlement at £xx.xx per day {(enter daily rate here - (CHARGES+OD interest)x 0.00022 = pence per day) }OR at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

 

So what do I put where and how do I complete this N1 form..?

 

I have been on here long enough to know better, but my excuse is I am no whiz on things like this and I have been helping out on investigating Cabot and I really could do with some help myself if there are any takers ...Please !:roll:

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Michael Browne

Michael Browne

Posted
Posted

Value:

 

Charges £1469.40

Overdraft Interest £766.99

Contractual Interest @29.5% £3093.12

Court Fee £250.00

 

TOTAL £ 5573.51

 

 

s69 interest should only be requested in the alternative in your POC's along with a separate schedule of charges

 

Mindzai's contractual POC's are here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb-2.html#post228549

 

or very extensive Justwon's here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/rbs-bos-successes/49470-contractual-interest-details-case.html

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