gross misconduct /leaving premises

[daz1968]

hello my name is darren one day last week at work i had a disagrement with my team leader, one thing led to another and he swore at me and told me to go home so i clocked out and left the premises. this week i am in an disciplinary for leaving the premises without permission which in the hand book is gross misconduct surely leaving the premisses without permission is ie going off site whilst still clocked in please helpppp:-(

[Bigredbus]

Your team leader requested you to leave the premises... did you leave straight away or did you cool down prior to do so?

[daz1968]

Your team leader requested you to leave the premises... did you leave straight away or did you cool down prior to do so?

i left the premises straight away i felt upset that this had happende plus there where three witnesses that said he swore and said leave the premises

[Bigredbus]

That should be brought before the investigatory panel... In the meantime, it would be beneficial to ask those three witnesses to prepare a statement relating the facts...

[daz1968]

That should be brought before the investigatory panel... In the meantime, it would be beneficial to ask those three witnesses to prepare a statement relating the facts...

i have copies of statements which all include ausive language plus the team leaders statement states he swore at me .

[Uncertain]

Well, if you have this there is nothing to worry about.

 

From a practical point of view I would make a formal complaint / grievance about the team leader's conduct.

 

I'm sure the end result would be for both matters to be dropped and move on.

[daz1968]

Well, if you have this there is nothing to worry about.

 

From a practical point of view I would make a formal complaint / grievance about the team leader's conduct.

 

I'm sure the end result would be for both matters to be dropped and move on.

i have my disciplinary today can i use adictaphone in the room

[elpulpo]

yes. You can't record when you're not present though.

[daz1968]

yes. You can't record when you're not present though.

no i willbe present with a union rep

[elpulpo]

What I mean is, if they were to ask you to leave the room while they discussed something, you shouldn't leave a recorder in the room. You can only record a conversation you are party to.

[daz1968]

What I mean is, if they were to ask you to leave the room while they discussed something, you shouldn't leave a recorder in the room. You can only record a conversation you are party to.

do i have to introduce who is in the room when recording

[elpulpo]

Are you intending on openly recording or secretly?

You shouldn't need to.

[daz1968]

Are you intending on openly recording or secretly?

You shouldn't need to.

am i aloud to record secretly

[sillygirl1]

No, you have to state you are recording otherwise that will be a case for dismissal. You can't use a recording in court if you haven't said you are recording.

[elpulpo]

No, you have to state you are recording otherwise that will be a case for dismissal. You can't use a recording in court if you haven't said you are recording.

Well, in circumstances where someone is dismissed following a hearing, that wouldn't matter. What's the employer going to do, dismiss them twice?

I'm pretty sure covert recordings are admissable at ET, if they're relevant.

One can transcribe them, and say that the recording was to aid your notes.

[Uncertain]

No, you have to state you are recording otherwise that will be a case for dismissal. You can't use a recording in court if you haven't said you are recording.

 

Your second sentence is completely wrong and the first one may well be too!

 

It is NOT illegal to secretly record a conversation YOU ARE PARTY TO. Leaving the recorder running when you are out of the room is more questionable.

 

There are plenty of cases where courts and ETs have accepted such recordings.

 

The first point is very debatable. If there is a clear clause in your contract to that effect then that maybe true. However, from a practical point of view, if the meeting goes in your favour there is no need for them to know a recording exists. In fact, you would only rely on it to prove them to be liars if the notes of the meeting do not reflect what happened.

[Bigredbus]

I will add, if I may, that you actually can covertly record the disciplinary hearing, including the private deliberations.

 

Make sure, though, that your contract of employment does not stipulate that the use of covert recording is prohibited...

[Zamzara]

...one thing led to another and he swore at me and told me to go home so i clocked out and left the premises. this week i am in an disciplinary for leaving the premises without permission...

 

Surely the key phrase here is 'without permission'? It was with permsission.

[Uncertain]

I will add, if I may, that you actually can covertly record the disciplinary hearing, including the private deliberations.

 

Make sure, though, that your contract of employment does not stipulate that the use of covert recording is prohibited...

 

I think there was an ET appeal where the judge ruled that the part of the recording made when the person was out of the room was inadmissible.

 

Obviously that is not the same as it being illegal.

 

I have seen employment policies that state that hearing may not be recorded and, that if any recording is made, it is not evidence. Presumably this is just a try on? I appreciate it could be misconduct in itself (but see my practical point in my earlier post) but surely they can't alter history. It proves what it proves?

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'uncertain', in Chairman and Governors of Amweil View School v Mrs C Dogherty UKEAT/0243/06/DA, The Employment Tribunal, by a case management order, allowed the respondent to use the unauthorised recordings she had made of the disciplinary and appeal panel hearings, including the private deliberations.