3 Mobile / HFO Capital / Roxburghe - Debt Help

[Gooner2408]

DB - im just typing up a Subject Access Request letter in preparation, is there anything i should remove/include from the standard letter shown on this link?

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/110--data-protection-act-1998-subject-access-request

 

It seems very much a bank orrientated thing, or have i got the wrong one??

[DonkeyB]

Ask specifically for the detailed and described transactions on the account up until thy closed it, plus the full name and address of the company the alleged account was sold to, and the exact date it was sold.

[Gooner2408]

No Acknowledgement Letter attached, sent recorded Delivery today -

I pressume the letter was ok??

 

Proof Subject Access Request attached

 

Sorry to be a pain DB but could you please have a look and let me know how i should re-word it for your above mentioned points.

Modified - No Acknowledgement - XXth Feb 2010.pdf

Modified - Subject Access Request - XXth Feb 2010.pdf

[DonkeyB]

First letter fine. My amends to letter 2 below - others please feel free to correct this:

 

3 Customer Services Hutchison 3G UK Ltd

PO Box 333

Glasgow G2 9AG

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Number:

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

 

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

 

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to any contract with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

You should provide details of any payments made to the account, any copies of any correspondence or letters issued by you.

 

If you claim you no longer own the rights to any contract, please provide the full name and address of the organisation to which it has been assigned, together with the exact date of any such assignation.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them.

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee. LOSE THIS PARA

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you previously used to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[patrickq1]

he he i wonder y alice keeps gettin muxed up with the accounts

must add als goo that you will also need very soon to take the harrassment leter from the forum as the phone calls will begin very soon so you need to be fore warned and armed with this letter send recorded

good luck you in safe hands now

patrickq1

subbin

[Gooner2408]

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you previously used to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

DB - should I re-phrase this? 3 mobile have never used my current address for any business i had with them. Should i included a list of possible addresses in which they may have used??

 

Something along the lines of:

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is not the one which you previously used to communicate my private business to me. The following addresses may be found on the the aforementioned account, and which you have hitherto found acceptable. (list addresses)

[DonkeyB]

Possibly, but the account number/phone number and some form of identity should suffice.

[Gooner2408]

Morning DB

 

Hope you are ok.

 

Finally had some response from Roxburghe since sending them my No Acknowledgement letter.

 

No 3 mobile account number or mobile number information shown, so i still dont have any solid information that it is my debt. What do you suggest to do next?

Modified - Roxburghe - 13th Feb 2010.pdf

[Gooner2408]

Just had the following popped through my door this morning

Modified - Roxburghe - 15th Feb 2010.pdf

[paulntia]

I have also just recived the same letter.

[marshy776]

Hi...

 

I see that this trio of companies are just a nightmare to deal with.

 

I have recieved a letter from Roxburghe today with a heading of "IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED". They are demanding £250.44 from me on behalf of HFO CAPITAL LIMITED. I didn't have a clue who they were or what the money owed was for either. I did call and spoke to a woman, though it was like beating a dead horse because I didn't get any further than I did upon opening the letter, except for being told that 3 Mobile had sold my account to HFO. She also let me know that apparently, the figure is at £250 because of interest...can interest be put on a mobile phone bill??

 

Here's the story though, in November 2004 I had called 3 Mobile to try to cancel my account with them because I was moving to the US and obviously 3 Mobile doesn't have a sister company or operate in the states for my account to be active on. I did ask if that could be done, as I was in contract. They bullied me into keeping my contract and paying from overseas for a phone I couldn't use. I had made a few payments whilst living in NY. In October 2005 I called up 3 Mobile to find out where my statements were because we weren't recieving anything from them verifying payments were made or anything. Again, I was bullied into a £20 payment by some call centre in India. I tried to explain to them that the postal codes are different in the states (they are all numbers...only 5 digits), and still not using the phone, but I was threatened that the account would be passed to a collection agency, etc. They wouldn't take my postal address because they claimed it wouldn't go into their system. We were told to contact 3 Mobile directly via email to make a payment arrangement. We exchanged 2 emails, and got no arrangement made and nothing sorted. We sent a postal letter to them, to which we didn't recieve anything sort of response, so what more could I do from overseas. I didn't have intentions on moving back to the UK at the time, but as things have changed my wife and I moved back in 2007 and now they are contacting me.

 

Now, not only are they contacting me, but the opening line of the letter reads: "I am surprised to note that you have failed to respond in a satisfactory manner to our previous letter." I NEVER received a letter from Roxburghe, let alone HFO, or even 3 Mobile while overseas or in the UK. The closing lines of the letter say, "Alternatively, we may instruct local external field representatives to call at your premises to collect the full outstanding balance. Contact this office immediately to arrange payment and avoid any further action." That to me is a threat, if I can't pay over the phone...I can't pay if someone comes to my door either.

 

I can't seem to get any information out of Roxburghe, I can't get any information on HFO at all, and I couldn't even tell you the phone number of my old 3 Mobile phone.

 

Any advice?

[Gooner2408]

Morning DB

 

Hope you are ok.

 

Finally had some response from Roxburghe since sending them my No Acknowledgement letter.

 

No 3 mobile account number or mobile number information shown, so i still dont have any solid information that it is my debt. What do you suggest to do next?

 

Can anyone please advise me on what to do next? its been 3 days since i got the latest letter from roxburghe and im worried that bayliffs will turn up and pester my wife while im out! she could do without the hassle as shes pregnant!!

[kiptower]

Baliffs cant turn up its not been to court and they dont have a CCJ against you

[patrickq1]

They are demanding £250.44 from me on behalf of HFO CAPITAL LIMITED

fantastic so roxburgh are now the collection and agent for CAPITAL well i shall come back to this tomoz as its late,,,,DO NOT PAY A PENNY AND SEND THE DOPES THIS ADDRESSED IN PERSON TO ALISTER IN PERSON

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account no

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature , in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Regards

Print name do not sign

[Titch1980]

Hiya

my partner got a letter today stating they had contacted him before(THEY HAVENT) and that they are giving him 72 hours to make payment before they decide what action to take. they want £357.90.

anyway after reading this he did have 2 mobiles with 3 which he took out in around 2002/2003 but we cancelled them because the coverage was just rubbish and a couple of other problems, anyway we paid off the debt(or so we thought, back then) ive sent an emai telling them ive never heard of HFO and could they send me details of the account.

what should we do?

[247orbital]

I think Watchdog needs to get involved with this again its becoming a joke now. Totaly unfair on people and the OFT needs to become active with these **** at HFO.

[patrickq1]

use the letter above you should be ok

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

I think Watchdog needs to get involved with this again its becoming a joke now. Totaly unfair on people and the OFT needs to become active with these **** at HFO.

yes you are correct watchdog should re open its files on HFO as we already know they have been investigating them but it is really time the OFT acted on these persistant complaints but they are lame ducks who just turn up for their salaries

patrickq1

[hamsco]

Hello

 

I am reading these pages in complete horror and also with a smile on my face as I am having to deal with these people at the moment too.

 

I am the victim of Identity Fraud, in 2004 my stolen passport was used to create credit accounts in my name. I lived abroad for a few years and I have now come home to a few different debt collectors trying to collect debt that is not mine.

 

I have sucessfully managed to get rid of 3 defaults and debt with Lowell Finance and Aktiv Kapital - both of which were fraudulent. It took some time but they did actually listen to me and correspond with me.

 

Roxburge are the worst people I have ever had to deal with in my entire life. They are a bunch of lying, cheating, ignorant, incompetants.

 

Things I have learnt about these people :

 

HFO and Roxburghe are the same company.

They will lie to you to get out of helping you with anything seems too much trouble for them.

The dont know the CCA 1974, or assume you dont know it so lie to you.

They churn out threataning letters which I belive is illegal if you dispute debt with them.

If you make a request for data from them under the CCA they ignore you, which I belive is illegal.

They have no complaints department/complaints policy/guidelines.

Their staff will not only lie to you but one of them also managed to copy me into an email they sent to their superior stating they had dont nothing with my request for data from them.

 

They are the worst - they stink! I am having a major dispute over fruadulent debt they are trying to collect from me and all I get from them is major incompetance and constant lies.

 

I am happy to go to court to publisise their extreem incompetance. They should not be allowed to trade.

 

hamsco

Edited February 20, 2010 by hamsco
spelling

[DonkeyB]

Roxburge are the worst people I have ever had to deal with in my entire life. They are a bunch of lying, cheating, ignorant, incompetants.

 

Don't hold back... tell us what you really think!

[hamsco]

Well the monkey I am having to deal with is called Barrington Atkinson. Have you ever heard of him? Hes the most incompetant of the lot of them. Apparently hes 'Senior'. Actually hes just a bigger lier than the rest of them. I'd really love to see Anne Robinson give him - Barrington Atkinson - a good grilling on Watchdog.

[patrickq1]

Well the monkey I am having to deal with is called Barrington Atkinson. Have you ever heard of him? Hes the most incompetant of the lot of them. Apparently hes 'Senior'. Actually hes just a bigger lier than the rest of them. I'd really love to see Anne Robinson give him - Barrington Atkinson - a good grilling on Watchdog.

its a made up name could be gunga din

[DonkeyB]

Think he normally works out of the Indian site and is, alas, probably real. But please temper your comments a little unless you're recording the calls and have evidence. Don't want to get the site into trouble...

[minty2009]

Hello all

 

I'm in exactly the same situation currently with Roxburghe, HFO and 3 mobile. My debt equates to £455.80. Similar numbers to me.....

 

I've sent the prove it letter to Roxburghe and had back a list of previous payments, no phone number but a random account number, it does have my name on the account profile page though. Account start date 31-08-03, account end date 17-01-05. I used to have an account with them but left ages ago and was under the impression that i had no debt with them! Unfortunately I have not kept records for that long back, as i didn't think it would be an issue in the later years.

 

The latest letter I have received is the 72 hour notice letter exactly the same to gooner earlier on in his thread (good name by the way, are they targeting Arsenal fans?).

 

I am really unsure what to do now? Shall I subject access request Three mobile (but if that takes 40 days, how do I hold off Roxburghe in the short term?) Could I call 3 mobile customer services?

 

In terms of the £10 fee for the SAR how is that paid to them? Is cash ok?

 

After reading most of the Roxburghe threads on here, i really want to go to Watchdog or anywhere else I can to complain, its awful. I'm recovering from an operation in which I received complications and can't walk, this is the last thing I need, but have plenty of time to complain . Any ideas anyone?

 

Please help

 

Many thanks

 

Minty

[demonknight9]

I am having a similar problem with this a***holes. The letters keep coming. I have never been on 3 until I bought a payandgo 2 years ago. Should I ignore the letters and let them take me to court and try to prove something that I am 200% sure it did not happen?

 

Thanks to all in here

 

This forum is great