Asset Recoveries UK hassling re mortgage shortfall from 2000- ** Statute barred ** :)

[gh2008]

Hi P1

 

I think I have to disagree on the client/debt owner point.

 

ARUK is acting 'on behalf of' Phoenix who will 'own' the debt - although the extent of that ownership will also be in question. The 'Deed of Assignment' will also be interesting (although I doubt anyone will get to see it)

[spamheed]

oh boy, now i am getting more confused.

 

 

Nothing to be confused about. nothing has changed, send the SAR, send it recorded (registered if you can afford to do so) and then wait for their reply.

 

A Subject Access Request is a legal request for information, laid down in statute and isn't something they can argue about, they are obliged to fulfill this request.

 

When they fail to produce, complain loud.

 

Irate, some of the people posting on this thread have great experience of dealing with matters such as this, their input is invaluable.

 

However, nothing has changed, send off the SAR

[gh2008]

County Court Summons - Mortgage Shortfall - Advice Needed Urgently, Please Help !!!

 

Link is not working.... not sure why!! Grrrrr!!!!

 

it's the silly new CAG autolinker it should ignore the words inside links but it doesn't so breaks anything with words like County Court, AQ or SAR and stuff like that

 

see if this works http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/121046-county-court-summons-mortgage.html

[PriorityOne]

Hi P1

 

I think I have to disagree on the client/debt owner point.

 

ARUK is acting 'on behalf of' Phoenix who will 'own' the debt - although the extent of that ownership will also be in question. The 'Deed of Assignment' will also be interesting (although I doubt anyone will get to see it)

 

Phoenix bought the debt and Aruk are the clowns they have chasing, yes.... but the original creditor will have no interest in it after an Absolute Assignment. That's the point I was trying to make....

 

The original credior is not the "client" because it's been sold. Also, the liklihood is, that Aruk are part of the same outfit anyway, which tends to be the case.

 

[irate-wife]

My confusions are that I do not understand all of the big words and comments, I am not ignorant but I just dont understand it. Basically I just dont know what to write back to them if anything.

[jansus]

I agree with what spamheed has said.

 

Dont ack the debt until you have the complete breakdown of that debt and also full details of how the property was marketed/auctioned/sold.

 

Also was a court order obtained by the original lender for that amount?

 

you need full details of everything that would be relied on in court to pursue the debt.

 

They can not get monies out of you that you can not afford - so if that means going to court, then as stated they will have to produce all that documentation to prove the debt and ownership of the debt.

 

Is it true that at one point you did attempt to negotiate the debt as stated in their letter?

[PriorityOne]

My confusions are that I do not understand all of the big words and comments, I am not ignorant but I just dont understand it. Basically I just dont know what to write back to them if anything.

 

Ok... take a breath.

 

Have a slow read of the thread I suggested. I went through a shortfall debt myself around 11 years ago now, so can appreciate what this must be doing to you.

[gh2008]

Phoenix bought the debt and Aruk are the clowns they have chasing, yes.... but the original creditor will have no interest in it after an Absolute Assignment. That's the point I was trying to make....

 

The original credior is not the "client" because it's been sold. Also, the liklihood is, that Aruk are part of the same outfit anyway, which tends to be the case.

 

 

I'm trying not to confuse things here BUT it would seem that because of the way Phoenix operates the assignments are only ever equitable - sort of changes things

 

No-one on CAG has, as yet, had a single piece of paper from Phoenix ......

Claims are issued through solicitors like Bryan Carter so I think that says a lot about the way they litigate.

 

I realise that this aspect of it is *very* confusing to the OP

BUT it is soooo important - the SAR *must* go to Luxembourg that is the data controller as registered.

[jansus]

sorry just wanted to add you must adapt the SAR to get all the facts that you think you need.

[PriorityOne]

Within the thread I posted up, there are a number of letters which specify the information you need. There will have been heaps of unlawful charges added on to any alleged balance they're going after anyway... and once they know you're aware of this (among other things).... they should start to back down and tread a little more carefully around you.

 

Do not speak to them on the 'phone though.... it's a golden rule.

 

[spamheed]

My confusions are that I do not understand all of the big words and comments, I am not ignorant but I just dont understand it. Basically I just dont know what to write back to them if anything.

 

 

If anyone uses jargon, please feel free to question and clarify what is meant, nobody will judge or feel insulted, this is a complex business and we all had to start somewhere.

 

The people who are posting on here now were all in your shoes one way or another at some point.

[PriorityOne]

I'm trying not to confuse things here BUT it would seem that because of the way Phoenix operates the assignments are only ever equitable - sort of changes things

 

No-one on CAG has, as yet, had a single piece of paper from Phoenix ......

Claims are issued through solicitors like Bryan Carter so I think that says a lot about the way they litigate.

 

I realise that this aspect of it is *very* confusing to the OP

BUT it is soooo important - the SAR *must* go to Luxembourg that is the data controller as registered.

 

Point taken.... but due to the timescales involved, I'd be very surprised if the original creditor still had any legal interest in this.

 

[gh2008]

For info

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/242653-have-you-lost-phoenix.html

 

I'll shut up now

 

All I am trying to say is that before you get involved with amounts owing and how it got the that. IMO you need to confirm who, if anyone, actually legally owns the debt now.

[spamheed]

Irate, a lot of what is being posted is just fact finding.

 

Nothing has changed, you still need to send the Subject Access Request, the question is, to whom?

 

Sending it to a debt collector will do nothing (as you have already found) as they will have none of the documents you need. They are just the gophers employed to shake you up in the hope you will pay

 

Sending it to Luxembourg as has already been covered will no doubt be fruitless, but I agree that the SAR must go to Pheonix as they are allegedly the debts "owners" and as such the creditor

[irate-wife]

I sent the subject access request to aruk and they responded with letter 2 along with an income and expenditure form for me to fill in. I didnt return that. Who do i send the subject access request form to, is it aruk or phoenix, and will i put i do not acknowledge this debt as a header also will i put a note on there with regards to the comments about my letters comimng from internet.

[spamheed]

The SAR must go to Phoenix as they allegedly "own" the debt. then when and if they default the complaint needs to be placed with the Information Commissioners Office asap.

 

If and when this does end up in a court you can then show that you tried to establish the validity of their status and they did nothing to co-operate.

[PriorityOne]

For info

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/242653-have-you-lost-phoenix.html

 

I'll shut up now

 

All I am trying to say is that before you get involved with amounts owing and how it got the that. IMO you need to confirm who, if anyone, actually legally owns the debt now.

 

Very true....

 

Irate, send the SAR to Phoenix by rec. delivery. Phoenix would need to legally own the debt before they could issue proceedings against you in their own name. If your original creditor still owned the debt, they would be the only ones who could take legal action against you.... so this info. will tell you who you need to deal with.

 

Once this has been established, we can then bosh the other muppets out of the picture... Still think Phoenix have bought it..... but we'll see

[irate-wife]

Will I use the address gh has posted on here or will I send another letter to aruk asking for phoenix address.

[spamheed]

Point taken.... but due to the timescales involved, I'd be very surprised if the original creditor still had any legal interest in this.

 

 

I would be inclined to agree, the OC washed their hands of this when they assigned it.

[PriorityOne]

I wouldn't make any comments about where you get your info. from... it's none of their business.

 

Have nothing further to do with Aruk now and if they contact you again (in writing) inform them at that point that a SAR has been sent to their "clients" and that you will not be corresponding further until your legal request has been complied with.... by rec. delivery.

 

If they 'phone.... hang up.

 

[PriorityOne]

Will I use the address gh has posted on here or will I send another letter to aruk asking for phoenix address.

 

Have no further contact with Aruk.... send to the address posted up on here. If Aruk contact you again (in writing), deal with them at that point.... as stated above.

 

We will help you.... don't worry.... but one step at a time.

 

[irate-wife]

Anyone have a bonafide address for phoenix cos all i got is a letter stating they acting on behalf of phoenix, no address for them.

[irate-wife]

Ok Priority one, thanks very much, i will do that now. I need to get away from my PC for a while, try to put this to the back of my head for a bit. Thanks again for your help once again and its nice to know i have some people who i can call friends to help, and DH, please dont go away, your help is very much appreciated. Thanks again and will keep you informed. Oh one last thing, is there a time limit for them sending me the subject access request and if so should I put it in letter.

[spamheed]

Use the address at post #53

 

Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd SARL

25B Boulevard Royal L-2449

Luxembourg

 

Use the link for the sar

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

They have 40 days to comply

Edited February 6, 2010 by spamheed

[gh2008]

Will I use the address gh has posted on here or will I send another letter to aruk asking for phoenix address.

 

The address I gave for them in my previous post was from the Information Commissioners Office

 

If you ask ARUK they will say send it to them as they are acting as 'agents'

 

you choose who to believe ......

 

--------

 

Background info for those who may be interested lol

 

I believe the assignments are only equitable as Phoenix, as a 'securitization vehicle' are not allowed to 'take risks' themselves, therefore every debt they 'securitize' as they don't actually buy them, they lend money to the original creditor who uses the debt as security for the loan. (like if you used shares as security at the bank for a loan - the bank has a 'charge over them but the absolute ownership doesn't pass to them)

 

When the securities (the piece of paper saying there is a debt to be repaid) are eventually proven to be 'worthless' Phoenix can chargeback to the OC. (again in the same way, if your bank - who lent you money aginst the shares - then finds out the shares are worthless they would call in the loan)

 

Ok, so they're only lending 5 or 10p per £ BUT when there are a million debts of £1k each ........