Advice needed- Sending Bailiffs a letter

[pinoy7]

I am looking for some advice in a letter I am putting together to send to a bailiff who is chasing me for unpaid council tax.

 

I am in the process of disputing the debt, the council are trying to bill me for a period I did not live at a property. I received a letter from the council last week, saying they had passed the debt on to a bailiff, and that they have already obtained a judgement for liability against me.

 

I spoke to the council on the phone upon receiving the letter and explained my situation and that I am disputing the debt. They said I need to put this in writing to them - and in the meantime they will not tell the bailiaff to cease any action against me.

 

After speaking to the council, I phoned the bailiffs just to let them know that I am disputing the debt and am I discussion with the council directly. They told me that until the council tell them otherwise, they will continue as normal, but have noted my comments on my account.

 

I have already put together my letter to the council, which I will be sending special delivery first thing tomorrow. 1 question about this. Can I request in the letter that they contact the bailiff and tell them to put any action against me on hold until the matter is resolved. As I am disputing the debt and a debt in dispute cannot be enforced?

 

Secondly, I need advice on what to put in my letter to the bailiffs. I have been given a template for "Notice of Removal of Implied Right of Access". Which is basically revoking all permission for the bailiffs to remove any of my property or my vehicle or set foot on my premesis. Will this work? Or should I send them something else?

 

Basically I just want to stop them doing anything while the debt is in dispute, as I am not liable to pay it and I do not want the hassle of a bailiff coming round. I know not to let them in etc etc but I am worried one day I will find my car gone and a seizure notice just put under my door or something.

 

Any advice welcome. Thanks

[wonkeydonkey]

Copy letter you are sending to council and send to the Bailiffs with a short letter eg.

 

Dear Sir

 

Attached is a copy of the letter sent (date) to your clients..... Council.

 

This account is in dispute and until such time as it is resolved I shall not discuss the matter with you further. Please note that should you insist on sending a Bailiff to my address that they will not gain peaceful entry and any fees added by you from the date of this letter until such time as the dispute is resolved will be contested.

 

Yours etc

 

Yours

[pinoy7]

Thats good, thanks.

 

Do the council have to / do you think it is likely that they will agree to put my case on hold with the bailiffs until they make a decision? Bearing in mind it is in dispute? Or not?

 

I was going to phone the council tomorrow and try and speak to someone in authority and request this anyway.

 

I also forgot to add, I am unemployed, seeking work and am in receipt of income support benefits. Does this make any difference? I heard that they can only collect £3.00 per week from me because of this, even if I was liable to pay any money.

 

Would the fact I was unemployed at the time they obtained the judgement for liability make any difference also? I heard that I cannot be liable whilst unemployed and receiving benefits.

 

Thanks

[seanamarts]

I am looking for some advice in a letter I am putting together to send to a bailiff who is chasing me for unpaid council tax.

 

I am in the process of disputing the debt, the council are trying to bill me for a period I did not live at a property. I received a letter from the council last week, saying they had passed the debt on to a bailiff, and that they have already obtained a judgement for liability against me.

 

did you inform the council that you were moving to another address? If you did then they should have proof of this.

 

I spoke to the council on the phone upon receiving the letter and explained my situation and that I am disputing the debt. They said I need to put this in writing to them - and in the meantime they will not tell the bailiaff to cease any action against me.

 

They wont do until you have sent in proof that you were not living at the address at the times they have billed you.

After speaking to the council, I phoned the bailiffs just to let them know that I am disputing the debt and am I discussion with the council directly. They told me that until the council tell them otherwise, they will continue as normal, but have noted my comments on my account.

 

I have already put together my letter to the council, which I will be sending special delivery first thing tomorrow. 1 question about this. Can I request in the letter that they contact the bailiff and tell them to put any action against me on hold until the matter is resolved. As I am disputing the debt and a debt in dispute cannot be enforced?

 

You can of course insist they put any bailiff action on hold until they have investigated your claim and they should so straight away. you are also in the category of 'vulnerable' as you are in receipt of benefits and should be making arrangements of getting any money owed, if owed, out of your benefits

Secondly, I need advice on what to put in my letter to the bailiffs. I have been given a template for "Notice of Removal of Implied Right of Access". Which is basically revoking all permission for the bailiffs to remove any of my property or my vehicle or set foot on my premesis. Will this work? Or should I send them something else?

 

I doubt it will work, but write to them by all means stating that you are in correspondence with the council as an error has occurred on their part with regards to an old address you had occupied.

Basically I just want to stop them doing anything while the debt is in dispute, as I am not liable to pay it and I do not want the hassle of a bailiff coming round. I know not to let them in etc etc but I am worried one day I will find my car gone and a seizure notice just put under my door or something.

The council are the only ones to be able to stop this at the moment, however if they do turn up and make a levy and charge you for this then its pretty pointless if it turns out that the council have made a mistake as they would have to have the debt returned and at their cost no doubt.

Maybe worth mentioning this to the council.

Any advice welcome. Thanks

 

Hope that helps

[pinoy7]

did you inform the council that you were moving to another address? If you did then they should have proof of this.

 

No. Which yes was a mistake. Realise though, that this is the first time I have ever had to pay council tax or dealt with council tax in any way. I have always been a full time student up until now and never had to deal with it. I had lived in the property in question for a period of two weeks only, I did not understand at the time that I needed to notify the council that I have moved out. The fact is though, I wasn't living there.

 

They wont do until you have sent in proof that you were not living at the address at the times they have billed you.

How can I send proof I was not living there? Apart from giving them the address I was living at. I don't see how they could check this anyway, it's not like I even paid council tax at the property I moved to as there are already 2 adults living there paying council tax therefore I didn't have to pay it or be involved in anything to do with the council tax.

 

I always thought it was up to the council to prove I was living at the address at the time they have billed me for. If I say I wasn't, and provide the address I was actually living at, surely it is up to them to prove I was living at the address they claim I was.

 

You can of course insist they put any bailiff action on hold until they have investigated your claim and they should so straight away. you are also in the category of 'vulnerable' as you are in receipt of benefits and should be making arrangements of getting any money owed, if owed, out of your benefits

So I do have the right to have any bailiff action put on hold then? And they have to do this if I request it?

 

I thought the same regarding benefits. Surely they should be making an arrangment to take any money owed out of my benefits, which I know is a set amount of £3 per week, rather than refer me to a bailiff.

 

Thanks for the help.

[ploddertom]

Good reply seanamarts, all I would add is contact your local Councillor with all the relevant facts as he has access to the higher ups in the Council - do this now this evening.

 

PT

[pinoy7]

Thanks for recommending a local councillor. I didn't know about them before.

 

I have just spoken to one on the phone and explained the whole situation. They were very sympatheic and were of the view that the councils treatment of me is totally out of order and very heavy handed. They have taken my details, told me not to worry and are going to try and help me sort this out tomorrow morning.

[ploddertom]

Thanks for recommending a local councillor. I didn't know about them before.

 

I have just spoken to one on the phone and explained the whole situation. They were very sympatheic and were of the view that the councils treatment of me is totally out of order and very heavy handed. They have taken my details, told me not to worry and are going to try and help me sort this out tomorrow morning.

 

V pleased to hear this. Still follow through with all the other advice as you may need to be prepared.

 

PT

[RaeUK]

Hi pinoy7, you've good advice here and I'm glad your councillor is on board.

I would have thought you can prove your new address(es) simply with utility bills. It's a pointer at least! Rent agreements, if you rent. Electoral role a possibility. If you moved in with friends / relatives then you can get confirmation from them. I would also have thought a Statutory declaration can be made detailing the dates you moved.

Good luck.

Rae.

Edited February 1, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[seanamarts]

No. Which yes was a mistake. Realise though, that this is the first time I have ever had to pay council tax or dealt with council tax in any way. I have always been a full time student up until now and never had to deal with it. I had lived in the property in question for a period of two weeks only, I did not understand at the time that I needed to notify the council that I have moved out. The fact is though, I wasn't living there.

 

If you were only there for two weeks, not on the lease, or subletting, then you are not liable for this council tax, I cannot understand why they have sent you a bill for this address.

How can I send proof I was not living there? Apart from giving them the address I was living at. I don't see how they could check this anyway, it's not like I even paid council tax at the property I moved to as there are already 2 adults living there paying council tax therefore I didn't have to pay it or be involved in anything to do with the council tax.

 

Sending proof of where you were living should be enough to get this stopped, were you paying council tax at the address where you were living

 

I always thought it was up to the council to prove I was living at the address at the time they have billed me for. If I say I wasn't, and provide the address I was actually living at, surely it is up to them to prove I was living at the address they claim I was.

Your absolutely correct

 

 

So I do have the right to have any bailiff action put on hold then? And they have to do this if I request it?

 

Under these circumstances I would have to say yes, unless they have definite proof that you were living there, then you would have to prove them wrong, Most councils usually suspend bailiff action until a full investigation has been done to satisfy themselves whether they have all the correct information.

 

I thought the same regarding benefits. Surely they should be making an arrangment to take any money owed out of my benefits, which I know is a set amount of £3 per week, rather than refer me to a bailiff.

 

It depends really whether they are aware that you are on benefits or how long the debt is outstanding, all councils are different in how they proceed with their debtors.

 

Ditto with the councilor, lucky you got to speak to one on a sunday.

Good luck with this and keep us updated

[pinoy7]

If you were only there for two weeks, not on the lease, or subletting, then you are not liable for this council tax, I cannot understand why they have sent you a bill for this address.

 

I was on the lease. I did not notify them I had moved out of the property because I had not dealt with council tax before and didn't understand I needed to. Which is why they were billing me.

 

Sending proof of where you were living should be enough to get this stopped, were you paying council tax at the address where you were living

 

Would a letter from the people I was living with be good enough? I was not paying council tax as there was already 2 adults living at the address paying it.

 

Under these circumstances I would have to say yes, unless they have definite proof that you were living there, then you would have to prove them wrong, Most councils usually suspend bailiff action until a full investigation has been done to satisfy themselves whether they have all the correct information.

 

They have no proof I was living there. Over the phone they refused to suspend bailiff action. I am going to their offices to speak to them face to face today though. The councellor I spoke to seemed to think they are bang out of order so hopefully it will get sorted.

 

It depends really whether they are aware that you are on benefits or how long the debt is outstanding, all councils are different in how they proceed with their debtors.

 

They have always been aware I was on benefits. When I moved in to the property I told them this. I told them this every time I spoke to them on the phone. And I told them this when I phoned them the other day. Yet they still refused to suspend bailiff action.

 

I will keep this thread updated, thanks.

[seanamarts]

OK i seem to be getting a little confused here which isnt hard for me.

 

So ok,

1. you were on the lease at the address where the council have billed you from. How long were you there for?

2.were you on benefits at that address? and did you get a bill whilst you were at that address?

3. you are getting benefits now, is this with the same council who are dealing with the bailiffs and the old debt?

 

When you go and see the council today go with as much info as possible. Make them aware that you are classed as vulnerable which is set out in the 'National standards of enforcement agencies' because you are on benefits.

[seanamarts]

Oh and how much is the liability order for, just out of curiosity.

[pinoy7]

OK i seem to be getting a little confused here which isnt hard for me.

 

So ok,

1. you were on the lease at the address where the council have billed you from. How long were you there for?

 

I was on a joint lease when I moved in to the address. I have since not updated any names on the lease even when I moved out. I didn't think it would be fair to take my name off the liability to pay the rent, leaving the occupier fully liable for the full amount which they may struggle to pay. I was there for two weeks.

 

2.were you on benefits at that address? and did you get a bill whilst you were at that address?

 

Yes, as soon as I moved there I went straight down to the job centre and made a claim. I also attended the councils office in person regarding council tax benefit. This was obviously cancelled two weeks later when I left, as I moved to an area with a different council.

 

3. you are getting benefits now, is this with the same council who are dealing with the bailiffs and the old debt?

 

Yes, I am. Yes the same council.

 

 

When you go and see the council today go with as much info as possible. Make them aware that you are classed as vulnerable which is set out in the 'National standards of enforcement agencies' because you are on benefits.

 

Will do, thanks.

 

 

"Oh and how much is the liability order for, just out of curiosity."

 

Just over 800.

[seanamarts]

well from what you are saying, it certainly looks like the council have made a boo boo some where, As long as you filled out all the benefit forms from the council so that you get your council tax benefits you should be ok.

[seanamarts]

oh one thing, was the other person on the lease claiming too

[pinoy7]

Yes I am going to ask them about my current council tax benefit claim too. I did this through the job centre when claiming income support and they assured me that my claim for council tax gets passed on to the council and I do not have to do anything.

 

The other person was not claiming as they are a full time student and exempt from council tax.

[seanamarts]

yes your right they do pass information on to the council but you still have to fill in the housing/council tax benefit forms from the council. I can see what has happened here now, because you did not fill these in the council have charged you for a whole years council tax. I am not sure what they will do about this, it could well be that they will make you liable for it. Fingers crossed for you I hope you can get this sorted, let us know the out come please and we will try and help you further.

[pinoy7]

Sorry I think you misunderstood my last post.

 

When I first moved in to the property (nearly a year ago) I never had a claim for council tax, as I only lived there for two weeks.

 

When I mentioned I have claimed council tax and housing benefit, I meant I am currently in the process of doing this, I made a claim at the start on January through my job centre. (I moved back in to the property in question in January this year, having not lived in it for nearly a year).

 

 

Anyway an update on today. I put together a letter explaining the situation and requesting they update my bill and stop any bailiff action etc.

 

I delivered this in person to the council with the intention of speaking to them about the matter and explaining any further concerns they had.

 

As soon as I got there I asked to see the manager of the relevant department. Unfortunately they were not in today, so I spoke to another member of staff from the correct department.

 

She took my letter and said she would pass it on to a member of back office staff who would need to process it. I explained I would like to speak to someone about the matter, she just repeated her first comment.

 

I then explained that I am receiving income support benefits and am classed as a vulnerable person and voiced my concerns about being referred to a bailiff, and requested they need to put them on hold while my case is being considered. She said she would go and speak to the enforcement department about this.

 

30mins later, she returned, having clearly gone through my letter with them and compared this to the details they have on their system.

 

She said that firstly, they have agreed to put the bailiffs on hold for 28days, whilst a decision is being made. Which is good.

 

But she also said that they are not making a decision straight away and my case needs to be put to a manager. This is apparently because there are "inconsistencies" between the information I have provided in my letter and the information they have on their system.

 

Specifically, regarding me contacting them during the time I told them I was not living at the property. They said that I had sent in a form, applying for council tax discount due to living with a full time student. And that I had put on this form there were 2 people living at the property. And this form was completed at a time I said I was not living there.

 

I did not get chance to explain this as she was basically a go between messenger and I was not allowed to speak directly to anyone actually dealing with or making a decision on my account.

 

But this form- yes I did complete it at a time when I was not living at the property. I have not been shown the form and seen its exact contents but from what I can remember, I filled it in to get a council tax discount applied for the period I did live at the property, which was some 3 months earlier. This was because they had sent me a council tax bill and had not applied the discount which I was entitled to. Therefore from my point of view, the form was to apply to the period I lived there only, backdating if you like, not the period I actually submitted the form. Attached to this form, I also included a letter from the student I was living with from their university, which gave dates of being a student, covering the period I previously lived at the property, not dates covering when the form was submitted.

 

So I do not understand exactly why they think that proves I was living at the property at the time of submitting the form.

 

Basically, they treated me like some sort of benefit cheat or criminal. When actually I have done nothing wrong apart from not having very good knowledge of dealing with council tax.

 

She also gave me, a housing benefit / council tax benefit application form to fill in, as they had not received my details through from the job centre at the time of my income support benefit claim earlier this month. I presume this is so they can process my current claim for council tax / housing benefit. However I think they have another agenda with this form. She mentioned I needed to complete it asap and implied that it is important in their decision making with my debt liability dispute.

 

Now why would this application form for a new claim for benefits have anything to do with my debt dispute? From what I can see, it asks for detailed information about my rent, landlord, rental lease and rent payments. They also want a copy of my lease, and rent payments made.

 

I can't help thinking they want this to try and somehow catch me out filling something in wrong to support their claim I was living there. Although I haven't quite worked it out yet. Perhaps they think if my name is also on the lease, that makes me liable for council tax. Or if I produce receipts for paying rent for the period I was not living there that makes me liable for council tax. Both of which are not true, but still.

 

I have since spoken to another local councellor, who is actually Chairman of the council. He said he cannot speak to the council directly as they do not give any information about anyones case to his due to data protection. But he did offer to come with me to see the council again if I wanted to.

 

He advised I also make an appointment with the CAB, which I have done.

 

I am going to attend the CAB appointment, and wait for the councils response to my letter. If I have not heard anything in 7days, I will ask the councellor to come with me and make an appointment to see someone at the council.

 

Not enthralled by the way I am being treated though. I may have not totally understood the process of how council tax works etc due to not having dealt with it before. But is this a valid reason to treat me like some sort of criminal and that everything I say is untrue.

 

Will keep any updates posted.

[seanamarts]

well at least they have called the bailiffs off for the next 28 days, so that gives you a chance to get this sorted out. Councils like to think that they are 100% right even when they are not and will follow the rules set out regardless until things are straightened out.

 

Sorry if I have got it wrong but its often hard to follow written posts when you dont have all the facts. Well done so far and good luck, certainly keep us posted on your progress.

[RaeUK]

I'm confused too! Councils are incredibly beaurocratic and like the i's dotted and the t's crossed. And, of course, they never err. I imagine, somewhere down the line, pinoy, you didn't give them info they wanted and they couldn't make 2+2 =4 as one of the 2's was missing. Now you're letting them know you have the missing 2 and they're welcome to it they don't know what to do!

Good luck, best wishes.

Rae.

[katieloo]

I was going to put this on a new thread but I am new here and can't see how you start a thread!

 

Briefly, I moved into a rented house 18 months ago to share with someone who shortly after moving in became critically ill with a heart disease (endocarditus) and was not expected to live through surgery for a metal valve as she already had one from a birth defect so was seriously ill. It came as a shock and progressed rapidly, and I had to cease work to become a full time carer. We had virtually no income coming in as my savings soon ran out.

 

I swallowed my pride and applied for benefits. Unfortunately there were two months of the council tax that did not qualify as it was before I applied and so I was sent a summons for arrears, I made arrangements to pay. My friend lived through her ordeal with a few near misses, I am in remission from cancer myself and eventually had a breakdown with the total stress.

 

I still continued to pay my council tax, I downsized our home drastically and informed council of my new address. so that I could still honour my payments. I am now a pensioner so no longer on benefits. I paid each month, late twice because I pay online and their system was down and each time I phoned and they agreed it was their fault and not to worry they would mark my account I was trying to pay. which of course I eventually did. I thought at the end of December that I had cleared the debt totally.

 

Until I had a bailiff visit me out of the blue with nothing coming through post no warning. They were chasing £162 plus 24.50 bailiffs fee. I was not there to open door they left letter.

 

I immediately telephoned Council about it and they pointed out I owed a payment for 31st of December and a final payment for 31st January. They said they did not have to send me notification of bailiffs.

 

I explained I really thought this was paid, I went online and paid directly to the Council the £162 before its final due date of 31st of January. I no longer owe them a penny and I emailed the bailiffs to tell them this, they said they would still continue with attempts to seize my goods until they heard from the council that I had paid.

 

So I contacted the Council and they acknowledged that I had paid in full and owed them nothing more. However they refused to call the bailiffs off until I paid the bailiffs directly their fee of £24.50. And once again the bailiffs told me they would enforce the full amount inclusive of council tax until the council told them to stop. I had no money left at all until my pension comes in, and they were pushing me back and forwards.

 

With us both being so ill and me being on a pension, we became frightened to leave the house or even open the front door. I explained how seriously ill the household was particularly with my friends heart condition and they did not care.

 

So having obtained information from CAB that it is illegal to try to enforce a debt for the bailiffs fee only. I approached the Councils housing strategy team that had been supporting me in the old house. She was unable to help as I had moved out of the district but passed the email to the council!! Who noting that I had quoted that it was illegal to continue with enforcement, I was written to in no uncertain terms that regardless of anything, they had decided to pay the bailiffs themselves from what I had paid in council tax (despite them agreeing I now owed them nothing) and they then recreated a new council tax bill for £24.50 which is of course enforceable and sent that back to the bailiffs for collection, knowing that they can add what they like and put the squeeze on again.

 

So I found the money and paid this new bill for council tax on line in full within minutes of receiving council email. I have now asked that they stop all of this as I really do not owe them anything else at all.

 

The point of this post is to say what you all already know, they are a law unto themselves, they are heartless regardless of health vulnerability or age.

And that is just the Council before we start on the bailiffs.

 

This was only a small amount in comparison to a lot of people on here but a lesson to be learnt these councils will stop at nothing. I vented my anger in a constructed way, i.e. the Council had total disregard for human life, but I daresay its water off a ducks back.

 

Surely what they did was totally illegal.

[RaeUK]

Hi katie, to start your own thread simply go to the bailiffs front page [the one with a list of threads on], scroll to the bottom and on the left is a 'new thread' button to press.

Anyway, I have faith in the mods here and their magic wands. Who knows, we may end up chatting in a new thread after all...

Wow, hunni, you've been through the mill. The amount is immaterial. You and the person you share a house with have gone through a medical rollercoaster. You deserve a break and your local council deserves to hang its head in shame.

 

You both slip neatly into the vulnerable category as defined by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. :

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

You need to write to your council detailing the above and why you feel you fit into that. Enclosing supporting evidence from your GP and / or any other NHS healthcare professional you interface with. Copy the letter to the bailiff firm involved.

Also write an official complaint to the council. You should not have been treated this way. Contact your local councilor and get him / her on board too.

I'm sure you'll attract further advice.

Good luck and best wishes.

Rae.

[katieloo]

Thank you, I will do that and get letters from doctor just in case, the Council keep playing their games and do something silly again.

 

I will start a new thread now I know how when I get a reply.

[seanamarts]

Thank you, I will do that and get letters from doctor just in case, the Council keep playing their games and do something silly again.

 

I will start a new thread now I know how when I get a reply.

click here for new thread

scroll part way down, dont forget to add a title and away you go

shocking story this, and I am sure you will get lots of responses and help.