Help! Apparently I'm not entitled to JSA!

[NH123]

Hello

 

I graduated in July, and have been living in a house with 5 other people since. In November I applied for JSA and housing benefit, only to be told that I'm not entitled to anything because of my living arrangements. This is the situation:

 

My girlfriend lives with us in the house. She makes over the £100 a week threshold that prevents a 'partner' from claiming JSA.

 

This is ridiculous; she has her own room, pays her own rent (the same amount as the other 5 of us) in a 6 bed flat. We do not share any money and she in no way supports me, and even if she wanted to she can barely afford rent as is it.

 

In terms of money or bills or everything else she is exactly the same as my 4 other house mates. She just happens to be my girlfriend. It's not like we're married or anything.

 

I'm so annoyed about this... Does anyone have any advice that can help before I lose my mind!?

[patrickq1]

did you tell them she is your girlfreind if not or go back tell them you are not boyfreind girlfreind ...erika may be on later she can advise but you will need to put more information on here like did you inform them you were a couple ?

[NH123]

When I was giving information for the claim over the phone I mentioned that she was my girlfriend; I don't want to lie about anything! I had no idea that it would mess everything up so badly.

 

I was actually later told that I didn't need to supply any of the information about my other housemates at the time, which is annoying because that was when I mentioned that she was my girlfriend. It did seem a bit weird going through 4 other people and their incomes etc when they have nothing to do with me except sharing the same roof.

[ErikaPNP]

I'm sorry Patrick but I would not in any manner encourage this gent to lie about his situation, that's fraudulent no matter which way it's looked at, and as you know CAG cannot promote this.

 

NH123; being your girlfriend does not in itself constitute a partnership because you live in the same house. You must be living in the same household. When considering if a couple are LTAHAW (living together as husband and wife) they must take a whole range of factors into account in looking at your relationship, including the fact that within the house you and your girlfriend have seperate accomodations. They need to consider whether you are LTAHAW rather than just assuming you are because you are in a relationship with her; each LTAHAW case if disputed, must be looked at on its own merits.

 

Have you applied and had a letter informing you of the decision or did they just tell you that you would not qualify and end the application process?

 

This guide contains the considerations of LTAHAW

[chipsnmayo]

Sounds like your going to have to appeal against the decision, it is a tricky one though as they will need proof that you are not supporting each other. Can you get anything from your landlord that will prove the living arrangements?

[NH123]

I don't think my application was formally declined; I was just advised by a chap at the job centre that I would not get anything, and left it at that. I imagine this means that I can still pursue the same application, have it formally declined and then appeal? It would be great if I could just talk to them before it gets declined. I don't want to have to apply again because I'll lose the back payments.

 

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful!

 

I am able to get a copy of our tenancy agreement that shows each of the 6 of us named on the lease. I could also get bank statements from each of us showing the same amount of rent being paid for a month...

[NH123]

I've just read through that PDF, and I'm certain that my girlfriend and I would not be classed as LTAHAW. What should I do?

[Life-Goes-On]

AFAIK there is no such thing as "girlfriend" on any forms.

It's "partner", and under how it is set out, on what you have said she isn't classed as a "partner" for benefits.

 

Asks for a claim form for JSA & housing benefits.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Life-Goes-On
extra info

[ErikaPNP]

Right. It doesn't sounds as if you have "duly made" a claim in that case. It isn't the jobcentre which decide this and he should NOT have told you that. What he should have said, is that she may be classified as a partner and that it could disentitle you, but he should not have told you "you won't get it" - this is NOT his decision to make, and they are not allowed to tell people that they won't get anything. Only the Decision Maker in the processing centre can do that with all of the supporting information in front of them. What you can do is ask for a backdate on the basis that you believe you were given incorrect information. No-one here can say whether you would be classified as LTAHAW as your situation is not so straightforward, and this is a case which must be looked at by a decision maker and decided on the facts. You believe you should be able to claim as a single man, so:

 

Call this number 0800 055 6688. It's free from landlines, and it's free from the following mobile providers:

 

• O2
  
• Orange
  
• Tesco Mobile
  
• Vodafone
  

From 25th January it will also be free from T-Mobile and Virgin Mobile. That number is the JSA claim line, open mon to fri 8am to 6pm. This is how you make your claim. They will ask if you have a partner. Tell them that you have a girlfriend whom lives in the same property but you do not accept that you are partners. If they ask you to explain why, go ahead and explain. Then tell the advisor of what happened at the Jobcentre. That you believe that you can claim as a single person and feel you were given the wrong advice and thus want to request a backdate. No matter how they try to put you off, make it clear you wish to proceed with the application. Because you must apply and formally receive a refusal before you can appeal. If the application is withdrawn, cancelled or defective a formal decision will not be issued and there is no recourse of appeal.

 

I am not in any manner suggesting you will be accepted as a single man - I'm not in a position to judge this one. But this is the route you must take if you believe you are entitled. The decision maker will look at your claim and decide whether you and your girlfriend are LTAHAW. If they decide that you are (and you are only eligible for income based JSA) you will receive a letter advising you that your household income is above the threshold, and you can appeal this within one month. If they decide you are not, they will award the benefit but will remind you of your duty to inform them if your relationship develops into a partnership.

 

You should tell them about your girlfriend, because if you do not and they later decide you have been commiting fraud, their case will be made all the more stronger by the fact that you did not declare your situation, and it may well be noted that the Jobcentre advised you she was a "partner" which would go against you as it would look very much like you set out to defraud them by changing your "story". Declare her but make it absolutley clear that you do not accept that she is a "partner" and give your reasons.

[chipsnmayo]

following on from Erika's good advice I would just say that you should state you live in a multiple occupancy and when you send in any supporting documents send in the copy of tenancy agreement. Don't worry about the bank statements until such time as they ask for them. Also do not allow them to put your girlfriend on the claim as your partner as that will immediately disallow you.

[privatehudson]

I agree with Erika's advice with the addition that the mandatory text that you should be read out by the telephony staff will run along the following lines:

 

Do you have a partner?* We use partner to mean a person you are married to, a civil partner of or living together as if you are married to them or a civil partner of them. They also need to be:

 

Aged 16 or over

A member of the same household

Temporarily not living at the address

What often happens is that people interrupt at the point where I put an asterisk with their answer. As tempting as it is for you to start your explanation at that point I would wait until the end of the definition and then explain the circumstances. The staff member will then know that you have heard the full government definition of the term "partner" and supported by your experience so far are making an informed statement that you do not have one.

 

By the way can you recall what you answered to the above question over the phone when you first made the claim?

Edited January 20, 2010 by privatehudson

[NH123]

Thanks for the sound advice everybody!

 

When I first made the claim I answered 'no' to the do you live with a partner.... bit, but when giving the information about everyone else I lived with, i happened to mention that one of them was my girlfriend (becuase I knew some of her details), and the person at the end of the phone told me that I had to restart the claim and say 'yes' to the partner bit. I didn't foresee the problems unfortunately; especially as he pretty much answered that part for me.

[Life-Goes-On]

Loose lips sink ships.

 

When answering questions, just give basic truthful answers.

[privatehudson]

Thanks for the sound advice everybody!

 

When I first made the claim I answered 'no' to the do you live with a partner.... bit, but when giving the information about everyone else I lived with, i happened to mention that one of them was my girlfriend (becuase I knew some of her details), and the person at the end of the phone told me that I had to restart the claim and say 'yes' to the partner bit. I didn't foresee the problems unfortunately; especially as he pretty much answered that part for me.

 

Hmm.

 

Well frankly the problem lies more with the person who insisted on you restarting your claim than the person in the job centre. The advisor in the jobcentre has received what is to all intents and purposes a claim from a couple which involves taking into account the couple's income and circumstances. Whilst they could have checked your circumstances and been able to inform you of much that Erika has said the problem lies with the person who took the call over the phone.

 

They should (at the point you mentioned your girlfriend) have gone back over with you the definition of partner and given you the opportunity to re-asses your original answer. They should only have rebuilt the claim if you decided to change your original answer. The role of the people who take the claims over the phone is to provide the questions and definitions and then enter the answers you give. It is not their job or responsibility to tell you what the answer should be.

 

Be firm and polite when you call the 08000 number, the person you speak to may have their own ideas of what your answer should be but it is your claim and your decision what answer to give to each question. Make sure though that you allow the advisor to finish giving the full text of each question.

[ErikaPNP]

I don't think my application was formally declined; I was just advised by a chap at the job centre that I would not get anything, and left it at that.

 

When I first made the claim I answered 'no' to the do you live with a partner.... bit, but when giving the information about everyone else I lived with, i happened to mention that one of them was my girlfriend (becuase I knew some of her details), and the person at the end of the phone told me that I had to restart the claim and say 'yes' to the partner bit. I didn't foresee the problems unfortunately; especially as he pretty much answered that part for me.

 

 

Sorry, can you clarify whether you were told this at the Jobcentre, or on the claim line? (the telephone number I gave in my last post).

 

If on the claim line, did you then re-claim, declaring your girlfriend as a partner, or was it how you first described, was it a call to the Jobcentre rather than the claim line and you were told you wouldn't get anything?

 

It's hard to advise unless this part is made clear; we need to establish whether the claim has actually been made and a decision formally been made or not.

[NH123]

I called the claim line to start a claim, went through everything then had to have that claim scrapped and a new one started because of me mentioning my girlfriend. This was on the phone.

 

I was then given a meeting time at the job centre that I attended and was told that I would not receive anything, so there was no point pursuing the claim. As far as I am aware, I was not told this by the person who makes these decisions, i believe he was merely going over my claim before it was moved further along the chain. I have never had a letter of rejection or anything that would show that this was an official denial.

[ErikaPNP]

Right. As I thought. That isn't on. I'd ring tomorrow and find out if your claim has been withdrawn or cancelled - it shouldn't have been unless you agreed to that. If it has been, you will need to claim afresh, to get a decision and then appeal if it is not in your favour.

 

If this claim is still active, ask for a note to be place on system that you want it made clear that you do not accept your girlfriend is a partner. They may want to arrange a LTAHAW interview. If this claim is still active, wait for a decision to be issued, you can appeal that decision once it comes through if not in your favour.

[Zamzara]

If you do now claim and are succesful, your benefit should be backdated to the day you first contacted them. This is because they have no power to refuse to make a decision on the claim.

 

A recent Court of Appeal case has held that just making contact will initiate a claim as long as all necessary information is eventually supplied.