Phoenix/Carter Claimform - old GUS Shop Direct Cat Debt - returned faulty TV .**CLAIM DISMISSED**

[emtdickson]

Thank you. Do you know if anyone has the same problem as mine please?

[DonkeyB]

Quite likely - but we look at every case on its merits and, more importantly, in terms of the law - because that's the only way you can really win.

 

Please get some rest, and I'm sure tomorrow will bring a rash of Caggers with great advice. You have nothing to fear. That's a promise!

Edited December 22, 2009 by DonkeyB

[emtdickson]

Thank you.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok have seen the reported post-will move this before bed:)

I think will need to move associated replies too so it makes sense both after removal and in pre posting thread.

EMTD try to keep things together-I will re-title and sort your own thread for you.You wont get any less help by doing that-you will prob get more !!

[DonkeyB]

OK, knuckles cracked... a couple of queries in red, then my comments below. Re-paragraphed for easy reference!

I purchased a catalogue item in 2004 which was 'not suitable for purpose', being faulty and informed the catalogue. It took them months to come and the engineer told me it was a manufacturing fault and under guarantee, but he could not get it in his vehicle, saying he would return. Eventually the TV was collected. Did you get a receipt for this? Do you still have the serial number?

 

I contacted Trading Standards, Which? Legal and CAB. All told me the same and advised on the standard letter. I gave them the deadline date for either repair or replacement. I sent them notice and heard nothing.

 

I ordered another TV which they sent, in 2005. I bought nothing more.

 

In 2006 I deducted the cost of the item I returned and sent them a cheque for the balance which they paid in. I have all the paperwork. I feel that if I sent a cheque and letter in final settlement that should be enough.

 

However a few months later I received a default notice! Each year since I have had these from different collection agencies. Each year I explained and was told I would not be bothered. Did you get this in writing?

 

The last time was 15 months ago. Then I get a letter from Bryan Carter, followed swiftly by a summons in the Northampton Bulk Claims. I telephoned them and asked if they were serious. They said they were, so I immediately lodged a counterclaim for more than the value of the TV I returned. Why did you counterclaim for more than its value?

I have paid for the replacement so do not see why I should pay for both of them. Someone made a clerical error somewhere along the line.

 

When they received notice of my counterclaim BC immediately wrote asking me to withdraw it, promising they would not bother me again if I signed it. I asked advice on this and was told that they can pass it on to another firm of collectors, so I signed the letter with my terms and sent it to the Court (in the meantime I have the case transferred out of Northampton to my local court).

 

I spoke to BC by phone and they said they would have to ask their clients. Then I received another letter repeating the first but this time threatening to send it to the court to prove that I was not willing to settle. I told them I had sent their first letter to the court with my conditions. This was the first letter I received from BC which was not a rubber stamp signature and no 'pp' either. I mentioned this to the court.

 

Also they sent me a copy of the Allocation Form. This is normal - you should have sent them a copy of your AQ which you returned to the court.

 

When I attempted to use the email address they gave I did not get a reply. I spoke to them again and they said 'would you like the correct address?' and took it down over the phone. I sent them an email giving my terms. It was acknowledged. Yesterday I sent a further email. This time the acknowledgement had 'maybe spam' in the address. I have no idea what this means. Don't worry - just your email trying to filter out rubbish (like Carter!). Interesting that Carter is deliberately giving out a false email address so he can deny receiving emails! That's worth a complaint to the OFT and SRA.

 

I have given them 7 days to respond. Now I maintain that if they were instructed by Phoenix to make a deal, why should they refuse to add to the letter they wish me to sign 'We promise not to sell/pass the 'debt' on to anyone else and never to bother me again'? Because that would mean they have a 'debt' worth nothing and would have to justify to their client why they have b*ggered up the case and actually cost them money.

 

That is all I ask because I have had enough of this. I have been disabled, this time, since 1987 and am 69,and was newly widowed this year. I cannot walk far and use a wheelchair. I have a heart condition and have informed them of this. Bryan Carter wouldn't care, I'm afraid.

 

Now I am wondering: why should I withdraw my counterclaim? Simple - don't withdraw. You have the evidence to prove BC will not listen to you. Your counterclaim claim is valid.

 

I have all the correspondence, including a letter from the CAB and info sent by Trading Standards and the dictation over the phone from Which?

 

The court has made an order that we should inform them in writing by 4th January that we have come to a settlement, because I sent them BC's first letter with my terms. I am still awaiting BC's agreement. I have been told on good authority that if I do ahead and sign the letter without my terms they can come back every year and repeat the process. I cannot face that. In fact, I doubt whether I shall even be here by then.

 

 

EMT, you have done everything right so far. As of now, the ball is in Bryan Carter's court. It may be worth sending a copy of the email by post, recorded delivery, because I suspect he will deny receiving the email.

 

For now, there is little else you can do. You have informed BC of the situation and he has to prove differently. You have excellent records, so if it does get anywhere near court, CAG members can help and/or accompany you.

 

Your counterclaim should include the costs of your time in preparing your defence at £9.25 an hour. You can do this at present as no track has been set for the claim.

 

Carter is clearly being unreasonable here. He doesn't want to settle for the reason mentioned above - he will have to justify to his client why your concerns were ignored and the matter ended up in court. As you say, they could sell the debt on (even though it's non-existent).

 

You may also want to check your credit record to see if the default has been recorded, and who by. There may be grounds for compensation (possibly £1,000) for damage to your credit record.

 

For the meantime, just send a copy of your proposal by post and wait. Do everything in writing from now on, no phone calls at all.

 

Little more you can do except have a peaceful Christmas.

 

Donkey

[themagician]

yes we all agree ,have a great christmas and after, santa may call again with even better news.

as cull carter will get into full swing in 2010. GUARANTEED.

sit back -relax have some xmas pudding and enjoy the ride,your in caggers hands now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[emtdickson]

Many thanks for your help.

Today I received in the post something really shocking - diabolical.

For your queries first:

I did receive a form from the first engineer who called to collect the TV. When he found he could not fit the box iinto his car and would return I put the report in the box for safe keeping. When it was collected I do not think I removed it. I am sure I had a receipt from the two men who picked it up but cannot find it. There is more to this that I can explain later if neccessary.

I received the TV in June 2004 on deferred terms - pay Jan 2005. By that time it was clear the TV was faulty and I sent repeated messages requesting it be picked up. Phone calls are on the BT bill and I should still have them somewhere.

Jan 2008 the loft water tank overflowed and ruined the house. All rooms were affected except the extension bedroom. The water came through the light fitting directly on top of my husband. As a result of that he became ill and never left the hospital. He died in March this year.

Now this is irrelevant really, except that I have almost all the papers but cannot find the receipt. We had to vacate the house for drying out and recarpetting throughout. I have not yet settled with the insurers.

However, I do have all the correspondence emails between myself and GUS.

In them I copied the instructions from Which?legal (since my husband died I finished this subscription).

For some reason I do not recall, I had received notice that a second engineer had called to collect it but I had not let him in. This is untrue. Why he said that I have no idea. It is possible that a carer may have been here who did not understand, but I doubt that.

Whatever reply I gave they accepted it as is in the emails. They promised another collection. Then they said I had to contact Phillips myself and in law the retailer must do that. So the thing went on and on until finally I sent an email as dictated by Which?

Part of it goes:

'Because of a breach of the above Act, I am now declaring that time is of the essence for the TV to be repaired. If this is not done by 23rd November 2005 I expect it to be replaced with a like or similar model. Section 48 as ammended in 2003 makes it abundantly clear that if you cannot carry out repair within a reasonable period of time I am entitled to have it replaced.

I have now waited a reasonable time since your engineer called and so if the repair cannot be completed by 23rd November 2005 I shall expect a replacement within 7 days or thereafter''.

In August 2006 I sent a cheque to close my account of the balance after taking off the cost of the TV. They accepted it.

The product is .... the catalogue ..... I must say here, though whether relevant or not, that they sent me a form to sign for a extended guarantee.

Initial year of cover plus an extra 3 years, which I refused to take up.

That would have cost me £259.99. I had never had a TV break down before or since.

They were not pleased.

[Bazooka Boo]

EMT, hoping you can enjoy a peaceful Christmas, Ignore Carter until after Christmas, with the combined efforts of CAGgers we will bring him to his knobbly knees.

 

Boo;)

[DonkeyB]

Can I ask what the diabolical thing was that arrived in the post?

[emtdickson]

THIS MORNING'S SHOCK:

Instead of receiving a response from BC I received a new note from ''SHOP DIRECT FINANCE COMPANY LIMITED.'' I do not know these people. It begins:

'' We refer to a recent request for a copy of your agreement. (I never asked for it)

Unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of an executed agrement, but for your information we enclose a copy of the current agreement which applied to your type of account. This version includes all contractural variations which have taken plac. (The last item I ordered was the second TV in Jan 2006.- expalined previously)

The letter continues:

According to our records, the account was opened on 12/07/1993 (well it is the same account no as in 1962) You agreed to make payments every 28 days.(which I did until the TV saga)

The outstanding balance is currently £2,130.00. Our records show that £0.00 in payments have been made within the last 12 months.

 

As the debt remains unsatisfied, this will be noted on our internal file for future reference.

This information will also form part of your records at the Credit Reference Agencies where we share information. This information will remain on your Credit Reference File for 6 years.

If a third party is acting for you, please pass a copy of this letter to your representative.

Yoursw sincerely Julie Bracewell, Debt sales Management Team.

 

SO, they have passed it on already even before the Court Settlement date.

DOES THIS MEAN I HAVE TO FIGHT TWO COURT BATTLES NOW?

[themagician]

no they havent passed it on, shop direct are in house collections for littlewoods and this letter is the same one they sent to me just b4 i go to court with carter.

because they have no signed agreement, and what they sent you is what it may have looked like if they had one but with a signature and t/cs on it.

they are really telling you that they give up!!!!!.

you will prob receive a letter from carter saying that he is no longer pursuing this acc."according to his client".

well done looks like you,ve done carter clap clap clap.

but now i,m going to court for the costs from them around £630.

nice new year prezzi.

[DonkeyB]

Need to take a step back, EMT - whose name was the claim form issued in? Was it Shop Direct?

[emtdickson]

I meant to say previously that when I did receive an acknowledgement email received from BC the address had after it ''Maybe Spam''. No more than a receipt. Nothing since. I have never seen this on an acknowledgement either so do not know what it means.

[DonkeyB]

That may be their way of denying receipt. However, it was acknowledged. Post it anyway.

[emtdickson]

The Claim they sent through the Bulk Claims ( it is now my local court) is PHOENIX RECOVERIES (UK) LTD S.

RE: SDFS RECOVERIES

258 BOULEVARD ROYAL

L-2449 LUXEMBOURG

GUS is not mentioned.

The claim is for 'goods sold and delivered between 18/9/2003 and 16/09/2008

Over the years I have received demands from several different agencies.

I only have correspondence in writing from GUS. I do save my telephone bills so possibly have evidence that I spoke to them, except where they rang me.

Could you tell me why they insist on having my date of birth? I am most reluctant to give it.

On the email, in the small writing at the bottom they threaten to take action if the recipient passes the info on to someone else.

Is that legal?

If I forward it to my daughter would that be wrong?

[DonkeyB]

OK, so the account has been sold by GUS to Phoenix. SDFC (Shop Direct) is, no doubt, a 'compartment' of Phoenix, and is Carter's 'client'. Have a look here for a story about Carter and Phoenix:

 

HETHERINGTON: Daughter in tears over debt threat | Mail Online

 

Did you ever receive from GUS a Notice of Assignment, ie. an official letter telling you they had 'sold' the alleged account? Was any form of default notice sent? These are important issues.

 

The balance seems high - is this the value of the disputed TV, or has it had interest and charges added? If you don't know, we'll have to send a subject access request to GUS to gather all the information they have on the alleged account, such as payments made and contact by you - this will cost £10.

 

They cannot get a judgment now in court as they have admitted they do not have the correct paperwork. So we have four objectives:

 

(1) To get Carter to discontinue

(2) To make Carter agree that the debt does not exist and that on discontinuance it will NOT be sold on

(3) To have any adverse information about you removed from your credit file

(4) To seek compensation for your 'injuries' and any damage to your credit file, whether by counterclaim or costs

 

The first two points are in hand.

 

To address points 3 and 4 you will have to get a copy of your credit report. The easiest way to do this is to send £2 to Experian - don't do it online as they will want your card details and tie you in knots when you want to stop paying.

 

We shall see this odious little man off, EMT, don't worry. I expect you are a senior citizen of a certain age and traditional values, and I have no doubt that Peter Hetherington would like to hear from you!

Edited December 22, 2009 by DonkeyB

[palomino]

The first two pints are in hand.

 

Why, thank'ee kindly sir. Bombardier will be just fine ...

[kiptower]

re, If I forward it to my daughter would that be wrong?

 

of course you can pass it onto her , ignore their drabble

[DonkeyB]

There palomino, I've edited it to make your post look nonsensical!

[babybear39]

How in the hell is BC still trading

[emtdickson]

Thank you so much.

I have all the documentation including all the GUS account documents showing what I paid and when (from GUS) over the last ten years and more.

I have all my bank statements in numerical order since 1 in 1985 when I changed my account.

I have many - not all - Mastercard/visa.

I have the correspondence re the faulty TV.

I have the following from GUS Arrears Collection Department sent after my letter re Sale of Goods and Services Act 2003.

The original cost of the TV was £1,999.99. It was very expensive. They were fairly new in 2004.

I have to say here that I am disabled and we had no transport and the Mail order suited us as we did not have delivery charges and could return items easily. My DLA mobility component partly covered any costs above high street shops. Taxis are very expensive.

My husband was almost blind with catarracts and waiting for an op. The large screen was better for him and was very thin and light. I do not know much about TV's but enough to know that when a new TV screen is divided into inch-wide horizontal bands which split the screen something is wrong.

When the engineer told me that it was a manufacturing fault and collected it later I went ahead and ordered another in 2005. I did not realise that months later they would come back to me with ''we have not yet heard from our engineer as to whether it is a manufacturing fault or not'' when I am demanding my money back. The amount outstanding is the cost of the TV plus other stuff they added on in costs.

25/01/06

Arrears Collection Department demanding £3,773.55 including the cost of the replacement and the original TV. The replacement by then was a different make and cheaper. They demanded £519.84 for arrears and a further £288.36 in the February. No mention of where the faulty TV was.

17/05/06

From Arrears Collection Dept GUS

£2,980.35 acknowledged that I was clearing the account. Asking a further payment of £820.08 and another in June of £288.36. All this time I was in correspondence with them over a refund.

12/07/06

GUS red final demand ACD for £2,190.27 Still no mention of returned TV or their intentions

09/08/06

Final Demand for £2,190.27

At this point I was pretty steamed up. I wrote to them stating that I was enclosing a cheque for £108.27, stating that I was deducting the cost of the returned TV (I had already paid for it, so took it from the balance which included the replacement. They owed me cashback of £82.01 so I took that off as well.

11/08/06 a letter from NDR 'notification of instruction to proceed.

Now that final settlement cheque was paid in by them and acknowledged on the next statement. The date on the cheque was 18/08.06 As far as I was concerned GUS reluctance to communicate about the fate of the returned TV was peculiar. A letter of 23/08/06 from the CAB advised me that my rights had been breached. They also commented that GUS were not co-operative.

I felt that as they accepted my settlement they could not open it all up again.

06/09/06

Red Final Demand from ACD GUS for £2,082.00. In other words, although they said nothing about the returned faulty TV they accepted what I made clear in my letter was a Settlement, as just a part payment.

08/09/06 NDR Balance £2,082.11, Arrears £998.25. All this time I was repeatedly asking for communication as the CAB advised but they would say nothing.

04/10/06 Red Final Demand for £2,082.00. No explanation re the TV

05/10/06 NDR default notice. nothing re returned item

07/11/06 MOORCROFT DBR LTD

Intended litigation notice, same amount.

16/11/06 MOORCROFT DEBT RECOVERY LIMITED. They do refer to my 'recent correspondence' and ask me to send proof of payment, ie copy receipt or the front and back of your cheque' to enable them to amend their records accordingly. Which I did., reminding them that they had the TV returned faulty.

19/01/07 MOORCROFT DR LTD

10/02/07 MOORCROFT DR LTD

demand for £2118.00 by 17/02/07. I was pretty mad at this.

23/03/07 RED CASTLE RECOVERIES LIMITED

demand for payment and contact with them by 30/03/07 They received my answer too, but I cannot produce written at present.

18/09/08 Frederickson international limited. Said they took their instructions from Phoenix.

It is interesting that after I had told them the whole story they said I would not be bothered again. I was not until last month.

Surely if I owed this money I would have had an explanation?

If they really thought they could get it, why let it go each time?

I have almost broken down over this.

I suspect that an employee made a mistake, or the workshop broke the TV and I am the fall guy so to speak.

At 69 and disabled I really cannot be doing with this any longer.

[babybear39]

Get TS and your MP involved. Maybe worth mainstream media attention if you can handle it

[emtdickson]

Dear Babybel

I cannot think, after what I have read on here. I never heard of them until last month and hope never to again. except that they will stop all this farce.

[babybear39]

Make a complaint to the SRA

[emtdickson]

At the time I was trying to get some satisfaction over the TV I involved Which?, Trading Standards and CAB.

I followed what they told me under the Sale of Goods and Services Act.

I had paid for the original TV by then and deducted the cost of that from a balance which included the cost of the replacement TV.

If there was a misunderstanding between GUS and Philips workshop engineers then why allow me to order a replacement and send it?

They were well aware of my reason for the order.

Their not refunding the cost of the faulty one is not my mistake.

As it turned out I was able to deduct the faulty one from the new balance.

I sent them a cheque and letter to this effect in Aug 2006, giving them well beyond the date of 23/11/2005 deadline for repair or replacement or cost refund as directed by Trading Standards.

My counterclaim for £3,000 is, I think justified.

I have a heart condition.

I take medication for it and carry the Angina spray.

The emotional trauma I have suffered and still am will be the finish of me if it does not end soon.