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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Today, I spoke to the Council Revenues Manager and explained the situation.

 

He said that Rossendales should be approached despite me explaining that they, the Council were liable, I added that I had made the payments. The Bailiff has in fact charged for work he has not done and commits an offence under the Fraud Act.

 

The manager said, he cannot discuss the case as it referred to my daughters debt and that he would contact Rossendales to write to my daughter to explain fees etc

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The manager said, he cannot discuss the case as it referred to my daughters debt and that he would contact Rossendales to write to my daughter to explain fees etc

 

Send a Letter before action, get the ball rolling, so you can file the Form N1 to recover the fees from the council. You paid the fees, you need to recover it. Only agree to £24.50 bailifs fees, let the council or their bailiffs contend other fees £18.00 - the court will (usually, but not everytime) pass burden of proof to bailiff to show what work was done.

 

Dont bother writing to bailiffs, sue the council and they'll soon terminate the bailiffs contract for fraud when the defendants response pack arrives in the post.

 

Suggested template.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Council tax arrears and your fees - complaint.

 

I received a bailiff from you on behalf of my daughter’s council tax liability. I paid him the sum of [AMOUNT] believing the bailiffs representation to be honest and genuine. Unfortunately there is an irregularity with your fees, and they do not comply with prescribed regulations.

 

To resolve this complaint, please refund me the sum of [AMOUNT] within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents, rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand. Please treat this letter as a notice of intended proceedings.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation of your own, or some enquiries, however, this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

I also would like to draw your attention to Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

When litigating a council, they are named on the Form N1 as -The Mayor and Burgesses of name of council.

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Thanks for the template. Before I draft the letter I wish to understand the first sentance correctly.

 

I received a bailiff from you on behalf of my daughter’s council tax liability

 

To explain : I received a phone call from distressed daughter explaining situation.. I called Bailiff to arrange that I pay outstanding sum by DC.

 

Does this fit in with template wording?

Thanks

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BEFORE even considering filing an N1 claim you need to find out IF the bailiff did levy upon a vehicle.

 

If a levy had been made then the bailiff must record this on a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory (Form 7). I am assuming from your post that no such form was left.

 

The screen shot will make it clear whether e levy was made and if so on what items. I have pm'd you and if you can e-mail a copy of the screen shot I can tell you whether the charges are right or not.

 

HOWEVER...if and ONLY IF a valid levy was made, then the bailiff cab apply a van charge. The statutory regulations call this an "attending to remove" fee.

 

What I can say is this. IF the bailiff was permitted to apply an "attending to remove" fee the regulations provide that this must be "reasonable". I can assure you from the huge number of enquiries that we receive that £110 (although a lot of money) is less than nearly all other bailiff companies charge.

 

PS: On the matter of pursuing a claim for fraud. The law is CLEAR in that charges can be brought. HOWEVER....the law has no teeth.

 

Any charges have to be brought by the POLICE and almost always the police will say that bailiff charges are a civil matter and NOT criminal.

 

To date, I have not heard of any charges being brought since the introduction of this Act.

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I have now scanned bailiffs Co, screen print into Jpeg format.

 

Should any member listed on the forum thread so far wish to view it, then please send a PM so I can forward it for their scrutiny.

 

I have drafted my letter to the Head of Revenues at the council. I have listed the Van fees £110 (two entries Nov & Dec on print out) to be refunded but did not listed the Levy £33 as I am not sure to dispute this!

Edited by Alan8376
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Alan - on the notes, there is no reference to a levy at all so surely their amounts are wrong.

 

Wait to see what TomTubby says when she sees your email but I feel sure that you're owed a refund :D

 

Keep us informed ;)

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Guest Happy Contrails

 

Any charges have to be brought by the POLICE and almost always the police will say that bailiff charges are a civil matter and NOT criminal.

 

The police have changed the excuse from civil matter to one of, not conducive to public good to charge the suspect.

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The law does not provide for bailiffs to charge a van fee, it only provides a visit fee of £24.50 but the legislation does not mandate what mode of transport the bailiff must use.

 

The fee is not lawful and you can reclaim it by asking the council to refund you. The council is liable for its bailiffs, but if you are palmed off with contact the bailiffs then file a claim in the county court for the fees on a Form N1.

 

The bailiff is the councils responsibility as any other contractor employed by them. Dont bother trying to get a refund from the bailiffs, they will only wind you up.

 

 

Correct but issue against both the bailiffs and the council. As if by experience you tug one in they will blame the other. However if you tug both in at the same time then whatever they want to say they can say to each other in court.

So whats cooking today ?

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Ordinarily thats good advice, but I find that naming the council alone has much more impact.

 

I will advise not attempting to resolve fee disputes bailiffs on the grounds they are the councils responsibility. If they are both named as defendants, they will squabble and blame each other, and that could protract your case.

 

Name the council only, and they will most likely suspend or terminate the bailiffs contract pending investigation, plus the council can litigate the bailiff afterwards – another court case over their heads while you sit back and laugh!

 

A claimant who stands as litigant in person is not obligated to know court procedure, and this creates lots of mess for the bailiffs.

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Statistically, the council usually settles a few days before the trial, but some do refund earlier but most kick off saying - contact the bailiffs

 

Its very different from council to council, and the National Association of Local Councils have not yet decided on an official strategy on handling complaints from the public of bailiff fraud.

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Q1. If and when I write to the Council claiming Van and Levy fee refund. Can I also claim for the work etc I have put in? If so! What would be acceptable?

 

Q2. If I go to Small Claims and win. Can I claim back my fee costs, and again work put in costs?

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The original poster is getting some poor advice here. The bailiff levied and can at the same time of the levy charge an attending to remove fee. Poorly worded council tax legislation allowed this to happen.

Compared to some bailiff companies these fees seem reasonable.

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bazm,

 

Unfortunately you have not been privy to the screenshot printout from Rossendales as some have. If you had, you would not have chosen the words 'poor advice here'.

 

To remind you........It would appear the Van and Levy fees have been listed on the screen shot, but no Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory (Form 7) are included. Additionally, NO entry to the property was made, NO signatures made, and NO items have been removed from the property, nor has the car, sitting on the drive been touched or listed.

 

I am open to any new interpretation or anything I may have over looked!

 

Thanks

Edited by Alan8376
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A1 , yes this is called 'Discovery of Information', theres no specific rules how this is quantified into monetary compensation, go by £10 per hour.

 

A2, yes, you can recover court fees and discovery of information in a small claims. Ask the judge at the hearing for the 'prescrived' attendance allowances as well. About £50.

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A1 , yes this is called 'Discovery of Information', theres no specific rules how this is quantified into monetary compensation, go by £10 per hour.

 

A2, yes, you can recover court fees and discovery of information in a small claims. Ask the judge at the hearing for the 'prescrived' attendance allowances as well. About £50.

 

The rate that is set out is £9.25 per hour however if you can prove you would be earning more being at work then you can claim a higher amount.

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It appears to me that the OP query is being overtaken by a bandwagon. All the bailiff company would have to is say that; the levy paperwork is handwritten and not scanned (a known problem with using digital pen software) and would not appear on a screenshot or the paperwork was posted later.

They do not need to gain entry to the premises to levy on car outside, they do not need a signed walking possession nor do they need to remove goods.

 

You don't have to take my advice and thats your choice (sorry I'm not trying to be rude). I am trying to give constructive help and although I don't post much I do get frustrated with the poor advice I sometimes see here.

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Ummm, a possibility! So, how does the baliff account for your scenario on bailiffs screen printout?

 

Surely, he has to make things legal! So how would he be able to produce his final report leaving out details? How would he account for his actions in court?

 

Thanks

Edited by Alan8376
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the levy paperwork is handwritten and not scanned (a known problem with using digital pen software) and would not appear on a screenshot or the paperwork was posted later.

 

 

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into

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