Van Fee - Levy etc

[el_sid]

Today, I spoke to the Council Revenues Manager and explained the situation.

 

He said that Rossendales should be approached despite me explaining that they, the Council were liable, I added that I had made the payments. The Bailiff has in fact charged for work he has not done and commits an offence under the Fraud Act.

 

The manager said, he cannot discuss the case as it referred to my daughters debt and that he would contact Rossendales to write to my daughter to explain fees etc

[wonkeydonkey]

If you want to handle this then get your daughter to write to the council and bailiffs advising them she has appointed you to act on her behalf and request you be given full cooperation.

[Nintendo Pü]

 

The manager said, he cannot discuss the case as it referred to my daughters debt and that he would contact Rossendales to write to my daughter to explain fees etc

 

Send a Letter before action, get the ball rolling, so you can file the Form N1 to recover the fees from the council. You paid the fees, you need to recover it. Only agree to £24.50 bailifs fees, let the council or their bailiffs contend other fees £18.00 - the court will (usually, but not everytime) pass burden of proof to bailiff to show what work was done.

 

Dont bother writing to bailiffs, sue the council and they'll soon terminate the bailiffs contract for fraud when the defendants response pack arrives in the post.

 

Suggested template.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Council tax arrears and your fees - complaint.

 

I received a bailiff from you on behalf of my daughter’s council tax liability. I paid him the sum of [AMOUNT] believing the bailiffs representation to be honest and genuine. Unfortunately there is an irregularity with your fees, and they do not comply with prescribed regulations.

 

To resolve this complaint, please refund me the sum of [AMOUNT] within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents, rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand. Please treat this letter as a notice of intended proceedings.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation of your own, or some enquiries, however, this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

I also would like to draw your attention to Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

When litigating a council, they are named on the Form N1 as -The Mayor and Burgesses of name of council.

[el_sid]

Thanks for the template. Before I draft the letter I wish to understand the first sentance correctly.

 

I received a bailiff from you on behalf of my daughter’s council tax liability

 

To explain : I received a phone call from distressed daughter explaining situation.. I called Bailiff to arrange that I pay outstanding sum by DC.

 

Does this fit in with template wording?

Thanks

[Nintendo Pü]

You can mod the template as needed. Its a jist of what you need to say to the council to achieve the task in the shortest time.

[tomtubby]

BEFORE even considering filing an N1 claim you need to find out IF the bailiff did levy upon a vehicle.

 

If a levy had been made then the bailiff must record this on a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory (Form 7). I am assuming from your post that no such form was left.

 

The screen shot will make it clear whether e levy was made and if so on what items. I have pm'd you and if you can e-mail a copy of the screen shot I can tell you whether the charges are right or not.

 

HOWEVER...if and ONLY IF a valid levy was made, then the bailiff cab apply a van charge. The statutory regulations call this an "attending to remove" fee.

 

What I can say is this. IF the bailiff was permitted to apply an "attending to remove" fee the regulations provide that this must be "reasonable". I can assure you from the huge number of enquiries that we receive that £110 (although a lot of money) is less than nearly all other bailiff companies charge.

 

PS: On the matter of pursuing a claim for fraud. The law is CLEAR in that charges can be brought. HOWEVER....the law has no teeth.

 

Any charges have to be brought by the POLICE and almost always the police will say that bailiff charges are a civil matter and NOT criminal.

 

To date, I have not heard of any charges being brought since the introduction of this Act.

[el_sid]

I have now scanned bailiffs Co, screen print into Jpeg format.

 

Should any member listed on the forum thread so far wish to view it, then please send a PM so I can forward it for their scrutiny.

 

I have drafted my letter to the Head of Revenues at the council. I have listed the Van fees £110 (two entries Nov & Dec on print out) to be refunded but did not listed the Levy £33 as I am not sure to dispute this!

Edited December 26, 2009 by Alan8376

[el_sid]

FAO Tomtubby. PM system possibly slow running today!

 

Thanks

[mkb]

Have PM'd you

[mkb]

Alan - on the notes, there is no reference to a levy at all so surely their amounts are wrong.

 

Wait to see what TomTubby says when she sees your email but I feel sure that you're owed a refund

 

Keep us informed

[Guest Happy Contrails]

 

Any charges have to be brought by the POLICE and almost always the police will say that bailiff charges are a civil matter and NOT criminal.

 

The police have changed the excuse from civil matter to one of, not conducive to public good to charge the suspect.

[RaeUK]

... not conducive to public good to charge the suspect.

 

That made me smile...

[letsmakeamark]

The law does not provide for bailiffs to charge a van fee, it only provides a visit fee of £24.50 but the legislation does not mandate what mode of transport the bailiff must use.

 

The fee is not lawful and you can reclaim it by asking the council to refund you. The council is liable for its bailiffs, but if you are palmed off with contact the bailiffs then file a claim in the county court for the fees on a Form N1.

 

The bailiff is the councils responsibility as any other contractor employed by them. Dont bother trying to get a refund from the bailiffs, they will only wind you up.

 

 

Correct but issue against both the bailiffs and the council. As if by experience you tug one in they will blame the other. However if you tug both in at the same time then whatever they want to say they can say to each other in court.

[Nintendo Pü]

Ordinarily thats good advice, but I find that naming the council alone has much more impact.

 

I will advise not attempting to resolve fee disputes bailiffs on the grounds they are the councils responsibility. If they are both named as defendants, they will squabble and blame each other, and that could protract your case.

 

Name the council only, and they will most likely suspend or terminate the bailiffs contract pending investigation, plus the council can litigate the bailiff afterwards – another court case over their heads while you sit back and laugh!

 

A claimant who stands as litigant in person is not obligated to know court procedure, and this creates lots of mess for the bailiffs.

[el_sid]

From experience... Does anyone know if a council has ever settled genuine obvious fraud from bailiffs from a complaint letter sent to them before having to be taken to the Small Claims Court?

Edited December 20, 2009 by Alan8376

[Nintendo Pü]

Statistically, the council usually settles a few days before the trial, but some do refund earlier but most kick off saying - contact the bailiffs

 

Its very different from council to council, and the National Association of Local Councils have not yet decided on an official strategy on handling complaints from the public of bailiff fraud.

[letsmakeamark]

Yes you can . the bit also says claimant.onbehalf of the claimant etc.

[el_sid]

Q1. If and when I write to the Council claiming Van and Levy fee refund. Can I also claim for the work etc I have put in? If so! What would be acceptable?

 

Q2. If I go to Small Claims and win. Can I claim back my fee costs, and again work put in costs?

[bazm]

The original poster is getting some poor advice here. The bailiff levied and can at the same time of the levy charge an attending to remove fee. Poorly worded council tax legislation allowed this to happen.

Compared to some bailiff companies these fees seem reasonable.

[el_sid]

bazm,

 

Unfortunately you have not been privy to the screenshot printout from Rossendales as some have. If you had, you would not have chosen the words 'poor advice here'.

 

To remind you........It would appear the Van and Levy fees have been listed on the screen shot, but no Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory (Form 7) are included. Additionally, NO entry to the property was made, NO signatures made, and NO items have been removed from the property, nor has the car, sitting on the drive been touched or listed.

 

I am open to any new interpretation or anything I may have over looked!

 

Thanks

Edited December 21, 2009 by Alan8376

[Nintendo Pü]

A1 , yes this is called 'Discovery of Information', theres no specific rules how this is quantified into monetary compensation, go by £10 per hour.

 

A2, yes, you can recover court fees and discovery of information in a small claims. Ask the judge at the hearing for the 'prescrived' attendance allowances as well. About £50.

[lets fight bailiffs]

A1 , yes this is called 'Discovery of Information', theres no specific rules how this is quantified into monetary compensation, go by £10 per hour.

 

A2, yes, you can recover court fees and discovery of information in a small claims. Ask the judge at the hearing for the 'prescrived' attendance allowances as well. About £50.

 

The rate that is set out is £9.25 per hour however if you can prove you would be earning more being at work then you can claim a higher amount.

[bazm]

It appears to me that the OP query is being overtaken by a bandwagon. All the bailiff company would have to is say that; the levy paperwork is handwritten and not scanned (a known problem with using digital pen software) and would not appear on a screenshot or the paperwork was posted later.

They do not need to gain entry to the premises to levy on car outside, they do not need a signed walking possession nor do they need to remove goods.

 

You don't have to take my advice and thats your choice (sorry I'm not trying to be rude). I am trying to give constructive help and although I don't post much I do get frustrated with the poor advice I sometimes see here.

[el_sid]

Ummm, a possibility! So, how does the baliff account for your scenario on bailiffs screen printout?

 

Surely, he has to make things legal! So how would he be able to produce his final report leaving out details? How would he account for his actions in court?

 

Thanks

Edited December 26, 2009 by Alan8376

[hallowitch]

the levy paperwork is handwritten and not scanned (a known problem with using digital pen software) and would not appear on a screenshot or the paperwork was posted later.

 

 

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into