Can't pay, won't pay debate

[BiGaD09]

Anyone know just what these tax breaks on bad debt amounts too ?

 

PF

 

The tax break that banks claim on sold/written off debts is 30% against corporation tax. Sorry should've mentioned that in my post as it helps to illustrate that their losses are not as great as they would have us believe.

[BiGaD09]

If i may say so I dont understand why people get so "het up" about what people pay for debts

 

debts are a commodity just like oil cars cans of coke etc

 

no one moans about coca cola selling a can of coke which literally (with the can) costs no more than 1.5p to produce- to a service station that then sells it for 1.15

 

 

Whilst I see your argument DD about commodities I don't really think it correct to compare with a can of coke. If you don't like the fact that coca cola make £1.135 per can you have the choice not to purchase it. Debt on the other hand is a very different ball game. People usually end up in trouble due to difficult financial circumstances, and rather than assist as they could the banks default the individual and pass the debt on to a DCA. What gripes people is that the DCA will harrass and bully for payment for a debt on which they can make up to 90% profit on based on a purchase price of 10p in the £1. Often they don't even have the paperwork to enforce the debt and instead play on the ignorance of the public and heavy handed tactics to ensure payment.

[MorganaNK]

I want to pay, and I am paying some debts, but if the DCA wants a fight and won't treat me with respect then bring it on - I am not a doormat with welcome tattooed on my forehead. If OC and DCAs were to treat us with more understanding when we hit financial difficulties then this site wouldn't need to be here.

[Pinky69]

I will not pay any debt to a bank or DCA where there is no legitimate agreement, nor will I pay any DCA who bought my debt for £100 and want £1000 for it - simples. I used to pay until they started treating me like dirt and after that no one got another penny - serves them damn-well right for their greed and thuggery. In my view DCAs should be outlawed.

[MorganaNK]

I don't know nor understand why they think that they have to use thuggery... again with the catching more flies with honey than vinegar... I would have thought that it was common sense that if you treat someone as you would wish to be treated then you would get better results...

[snowy101]

I tried to settle with all OC`s, none of them were interested.

When the DCA`s got involved i had run out of good will & honest intentions. I will never pay any DCA, they take a gamble on buying these debts & just like me when i fill in my football bet on a Saturday, i sometimes win but mostly i don't. its a bit of fun, nothing serious, just like my view on DCA`s. I never borrowed a penny from any DCA, so i`m fecked if there getting anything without putting me in a court of law.

When the OC would`t accept my offer, my compliance in this silly game ended right there.

[SkemDosser]

I want to pay, and I am paying some debts, but if the DCA wants a fight and won't treat me with respect then bring it on - I am not a doormat with welcome tattooed on my forehead. If OC and DCAs were to treat us with more understanding when we hit financial difficulties then this site wouldn't need to be here.

OC's/DCA's unfortunately aren't sensible or shrewd and this is shown by the wider practises of the banks over the past 20-30 years: short-termism and the conversion of most of their banking systems into casinos.

 

Also it's a symptom of what Diddydicky was getting at with their commodifying of money; loans have become commodities,- products- and by extension, the customer has become one too. Quite literally, he/she has become a few computer bytes and nothing more.

 

I'm sure most people on here have stories of how they were model customers until their difficulties happened; I have a couple of examples but the one that got to me is Barclays about ten years ago,who I was a good,squeaky clean customer of for over twenty years [with previously paid off loans etc so they'd made some money out of me],who at the first sign of problems- I didn't mess around I told them immediately- without hesitation wound up my current account and within a couple of months despite my attempts to explain and arrange a repayment schedule, had slapped a CCJ on me. For just over a grand. I ask you. I think that little episode neatly sums up the approach of all banks these days, and as consumers we have to harden up and fight fire with fire because we are up against faceless, ruthless and immoral business machines now, nothing less.

[diddydicky]

 

Huh?

 

Ridiculous, frivolous comment:(

 

i know AC- i was hoping some of my sense of humour would rub off on you and you would lighten up a little!!

[diddydicky]

What kind of 'real life' do you live in DD?

The 'debts' relate directly to people, and - very angry moment here:

 

PEOPLE ARE NOT COMMODITIES

 

 

 

to assist you- what i said was that debts are traded like commodities

 

so if you are a debt- i apologise to you

 

if you can find any reference to me ever saying that people were comoddoties i will apologise on every thread i have ever posted on

 

if not- perhaps you would care to apologise on this one for misrepresenting what i have said!!

[diddydicky]

Hi Diddy dicky

 

Forgive me for being suspicious but you sound like a debt collector to me using the same argument ad DCA did to me and still are

No enforcable agreement means no enforcable agreement

I am aware we have visitors on site but that post did not resemble advice but a guilt trip

 

Sorry not guilty

 

Hi noogie- no i can assure you i am not a debt collector - however please feel free to ignore my advice totally if i do not convince you

[dannyboy660]

Anyone know just what these tax breaks on bad debt amounts too ?

 

PF

 

 

 

 

You can reclaim VAT that you paid to HMRC and which you have not received from the customer. The conditions are that:

• the debt is more than six months old and less than three years and six months old
  
• you have written off the debt in your VAT accounts and transferred it to a separate bad debt account
  
• the debt has not been sold or handed to a factoring company
  
• you did not charge more than the normal selling price for the items
  

I'm not 100 % sure this is exactly the right thing, I'm not an accountant either, but it's a step in the right direction I think HM Revenue & Customs: Bad debts: how to reclaim the VAT

 

Here's another lead, although I'mn not entirely sure it's in English CFM81220 - Old rules: loan relationships: connection and bad debts: acquiring bad debts: relief for acquired debt: examples makes no sense to me

Edited December 8, 2009 by dannyboy660

[diddydicky]

What kind of 'real life' do you live in DD?

The 'debts' relate directly to people, and - very angry moment here:

 

PEOPLE ARE NOT COMMODITIES

 

the life i live, is one where everything is real and not fantasy.

 

one where , whilst not batting for the other side, - i try to see their point of view, and don't subscribe to the view that all creditors are **** (anymore than some of them say that all debtors are ****)

 

One where i know that UNLESS i try to look at the matter from their perspective as well as my own- and try to figure out what angle they are coming from - i am likely to trip myself up.

 

one where i know the difference between what "should" happen and what is "likely in reality" to happen

 

 

One where i accept that i got MYSELF into debt and don't expect to see off my creditors and then expect/demand that my credit record is expunged and returned to whiter than white.

 

 

Hope that clears that up!

 

The forum offers a broad spectrum of advice, from people with varying backgrounds

 

 

you may take or leave mine as you see fit !

 

(flippant remarks included- for i see humour in life whatever the circumstances)

Edited December 8, 2009 by diddydicky

[diddydicky]

Whilst I see your argument DD about commodities I don't really think it correct to compare with a can of coke. If you don't like the fact that coca cola make £1.135 per can you have the choice not to purchase it. Debt on the other hand is a very different ball game. People usually end up in trouble due to difficult financial circumstances, and rather than assist as they could the banks default the individual and pass the debt on to a DCA. What gripes people is that the DCA will harrass and bully for payment for a debt on which they can make up to 90% profit on based on a purchase price of 10p in the £1. Often they don't even have the paperwork to enforce the debt and instead play on the ignorance of the public and heavy handed tactics to ensure payment.

- and some of the public don't

"play" on the fact that the creditor does not have the paperwork- come on don't treat me as if i am totally daft

 

I wasn't expressing a view one way or the other about the banks- merely pointing out that a debt is an asset just like any other in business and like it or not it WILL get traded and people WILL make profits on them- that's what a capitalist system does.

 

your mortgage is qually "an asset" and likely as not will also get sold to someone else at some point in time-

[SteveH2508]

You can reclaim VAT that you paid to HMRC and which you have not received from the customer. The conditions are that:

• the debt is more than six months old and less than three years and six months old
  
• you have written off the debt in your VAT accounts and transferred it to a separate bad debt account
  
• the debt has not been sold or handed to a factoring company
  
• you did not charge more than the normal selling price for the items
  

I'm not 100 % sure this is exactly the right thing, I'm not an accountant either, but it's a step in the right direction I think HM Revenue & Customs: Bad debts: how to reclaim the VAT

 

Here's another lead, although I'mn not entirely sure it's in English CFM81220 - Old rules: loan relationships: connection and bad debts: acquiring bad debts: relief for acquired debt: examples makes no sense to me

 

 

The Tax relief being discussed is Corporation Tax relief. It has nothing to do with VAT. VAT Bad Debt relief is when a trader has handed over the VAT on an Invoice to HMRC before the invoice has been paid and it has subsequently gone bad. The reference to factoring is the act of selling the invoice for a discounted price to unload the risk of it going bad.

[angry cat]

 

i know AC- i was hoping some of my sense of humour would rub off on you and you would lighten up a little!!

 

Unfortunately DD, personally I cannot see any comedy in the topic!

Of course, I do have a sense of humour but not in relation to securitization and dubious debt sales.

 

by DD:

"One where i accept that i got MYSELF into debt and don't expect to see off my creditors and then expect/demand that my credit record is expunged and returned to whiter than white."

 

What you are missing here is that, every case is different;

my own particular position was not caused by runaway spending or, financial delinquency;

it was caused by the irresponsible negligence of certain Banks...

 

These Banks would not resolve my particular dispute(s), instead they passed the buck to certain debt buying DCA's, who have relentlessly pursued me for monies that, I do no owe, therefore I do not/will not acknowledge these alleged debts.

[diddydicky]

 

Unfortunately DD, personally I cannot see any comedy in the topic!

Of course, I do have a sense of humour but not in relation to securitization and dubious debt sales.

 

by DD:

"One where i accept that i got MYSELF into debt and don't expect to see off my creditors and then expect/demand that my credit record is expunged and returned to whiter than white."

 

What you are missing here is that, every case is different;

my own particular position was not caused by runaway spending or, financial delinquency;

it was caused by the irresponsible negligence of certain Banks...

 

These Banks would not resolve my particular dispute(s), instead they passed the buck to certain debt buying DCA's, who have relentlessly pursued me for monies that, I do no owe, therefore I do not/will not acknowledge these alleged debts.

 

i accept that all cases are different, and that yours is - fair do's

 

as to the sense of humour- well there you go - we cant all be the same

[BiGaD09]

- and some of the public don't

"play" on the fact that the creditor does not have the paperwork- come on don't treat me as if i am totally daft

 

I wasn't expressing a view one way or the other about the banks- merely pointing out that a debt is an asset just like any other in business and like it or not it WILL get traded and people WILL make profits on them- that's what a capitalist system does.

 

your mortgage is qually "an asset" and likely as not will also get sold to someone else at some point in time-

 

I completely agree with you that there are people who will play on the lack of a CCA agreement etc to avoid paying their dues, and I apologise if you felt I was treating you as been daft, that wasn't my intention. I am a firm believer in paying for what I owe, that's life.

 

I also agree that debt is an asset, whether this is morally sound is irrelevant when the sole purpose of any business is to generate profit and generating profit in a capitalist system requires that it is at the expense of someone else.

 

The main issue, in my opinion, that people have is the way in which the 'asset' is utilised in order to generate profit, namely through harrassment and bullying tactics by the banks and DCA's. It is these methods that often can turn the 'will pay' into the 'won't pay' regardless of morals and ethics. However from a bank/DCA perspective if they didn't use such methods would anybody pay what they owed?

[BlueBox]

It is these methods that often can turn the 'will pay' into the 'won't pay' regardless of morals and ethics. However from a bank/DCA perspective if they didn't use such methods would anybody pay what they owed?

Yes, I think they would. With a bit of sensible dialogue and patience, the banks could recoup a lot more.

 

I was willing to pay off everything, albeit at a slower rate than they would have preferred. All I did was follow advice that when things got a bit sticky I should explain the situation to my creditors. However, every single one of my creditors became aggressive and unhelpful. My current account, held jointly with my OH was summarily closed with virtually no notice. I turned after being treated like a criminal when actually I think I'm a fairly decent law-abiding sort. Prior to these difficulties I had 20+ years of squeaky clean credit.

 

There's no point having consumer laws if they don't actually work for the consumer. As others have said, banks and insurance companies would have no hesitation to wriggle out of an agreement on the back of one dodgy clause. Mr Bennion had it right when he said that if they couldn't be bothered to produce proper agreements they didn't deserve the benefit (I paraphrase).

 

After the way we have been treated and the hours spent on trying to communicate with the morons they employ, I have become a "won't pay" wherever legally possible.

[Scrapper]

I was more than willing to pay back what I had borrowed MBNA

 

In fact I even informed them that I had been made redundant and I could for the time being carry on paying them the normal monthly amounts as I had income protection for 12 months which would see me right, but could they be aware that if I didn’t find a job within that 12 months I might need some assistance. No sooner had I put the phone down I had letter drop through the door advising me that due to my circumstances and something about risk assessment they where putting up my interest rate. MBNA 15.9% - 36.9 .

 

Anyone governed by the banking code is supposed to act in their clients best interest so you tell me (if you dare) I don’t have a case too tell them to go get f*cked and suck my c*ck and use the law that’s in place to protect myself????? If they f*cked up their agreements that’s their tough sh*t as far as I’m concerned. Don’t treat me like a mug.

 

They brought this on themselves. I had no intention of ducking away from what I owed so if they can play the game like the pirates they are then so shall I.

 

The banks have had it their own way for far too long and the more people start standing up to them and win the more likely it is they will change their business practices.

 

They can’t expect the UK taxpayer to bail them out at the first sign of trouble then treat people with contempt they moment they need help. (Yes I know MBNA isn't a UK Bank, but they needed bailing out as well by the US Government) But you get where I am coming from I hope?

 

They have very short memories and this needs to be addressed by a government that has the Jacobs to tell them to back off, but they won’t cause they are running scared of the banks due to reasons unknown.

 

 

Rant over

 

 

Scrapper Coco

Edited December 11, 2009 by Scrapper

[Scrapper]

And another thing. I tried to talk to them about this and told them I wasn't a risk as i'd never missed one payment with them and I could still keep paying every month for the next 12 months at least so could they reconsider and guess what they told me??

 

It's non negotiable and we can do what we like as it's a variable rate.

 

Considering the BOE base rate has been failing since 2002 that's hardly acting in my best interest or playing cricket in my book so it was game on as far as I was concerned.

 

I didn't even know there was laws to protect me until I found this site which was a god send.

 

Thanks

 

Scrapper Coco

[Scrapper]

And as I beat them it just goes to show that this site works.

 

I applied more pressure on them than they did me and it paid off in the end, but if they hadn't been so underhand and greedy and actually listened to what I was saying instead of trying to bully me and threaten me (I'm a big boy and they didn't scare me in the slightest. I wanted them to send someone round. Boy would he have got a shock when I opened the door) they would have eventually got the entire £17000 + Interest out if me, but instead I screwed them out of £14000 and got my credit file cleaned up in the process

 

Enough from me

 

Scrapper Coco

[mabski]

I have a few outstanding debts at the moment two of which i would have been happy to pay back until the conduct of their dca's changed my mind.

one of the dca's phoned me up to discuss the matter and when i asked him to send me paperwork to prove they actually had a right to collect on it he went off on one . he became really abusive and even called me a professional debtor after which i put the phone down on him but it didnt stop him as he phoned straight back and continued to phone four times every night for about a month.

the other dca is cabot need i say more

[angry cat]

What is a professional debtor?

 

Cabot are professional leeches!

[Scrapper]

What is a professional debtor?

 

Cabot are professional leeches!

 

I'll tell you what a professional debtor is. Most of the sodding underhand financial institutions in this country at the moment because I believe they actually owe us far more than we owe them. £40k per household for starters.

 

How about we start a campaign of harrasment towards them (hire a DCA) and start calling the company chairman daily for an update plus add late payment fees £12 daily and up the interest rate to around 40%. See how they like it up them. We could also send them the classic your credit file could be affected unless you make payment immediately letters CALL US NOW to make a debit card payment.

 

Scrapper Coco:cool:

[Scrapper]

In fact that's an idea for a thread me thinks