Notice of overpayment help needed please

[sourplums]

Hello all i'm kind of new here and have a problem with an overpayment request letter i recieved this morning.

 

It's from the DWP debt management contact centre Nuneaton and says that i have an overpayment of Disability Living Allowance- care/mob for the sum of just under £4000,period of overpayment from 2007-2009.

 

It also says the reason for overpayment is- the reciept of more than one payment for the same period, also says " This was our mistake and we are sorry it has happened,however you have been paid public money that you were not entitled to and so we are therefore obliged to ask that you pay it back, we realise that this may come as an unwelcome surprise and you may not be in a position to repay in full at this time".

 

How on earth does it take them 2yrs to realise this and let any money i'm being overpaid mount to this worrying ammount ?

 

I am in reciept of DLA/ib/is at present and being told this has came as quite a shock to me, i can't also remember what happened two days ago never mind 2yrs ago and extremely worried sick about this, if i have been overpaid i am more than willing to repay pay it at a set ammount, but what angers me is the ammount of time it took them to realise this and i am not the one who made the error, but making me feel like i have done something wrong when i haven't.

 

I have contacted my local money matters and have an appointment for hopefully Monday, i havent contacted the dept management place on the letter as i'm afraid they might hit me with alsorts of figures and dates which i wont understand, taking things in isn't one of my finer points and struggle with just coping with life which i find hard as it is, the mere fact that for the last few months i find it hard to walk over a bridge and have some not so nice thoughts and feel this will send me over the edge.

 

Any advise or pointers would be of great help

[merlin100]

Hi sourplums, cant help you but someone will very soon.

Look at my recent post "A warning to anyone dealing with Tax Credit Recoveries"- it may give you an insight of what to expect when you ring them.

Be very careful with these people and admit to nothing.

[merlin100]

Sorry sourplums, should have mentioned. The Recoveries Departments do not keep records so cannot help you or offer information anyway.

The experience I had is that it is their sole intention to do nothing more than get you to admit liability in a recorded phone call.

Since my post I have met someone who fell for it - and it was a very similar conversation to the one I had. I left them boiling though

[sourplums]

Hi merlin and thanks for the quick reply, the fact is that if i have been overpaid and owe them money i will except that, i don't want to sound like i'm trying to avoid paying by sounding angry about the time it has taken them and if overpaid then it would be my duty to repay it if i wasn't entitled to it.

 

My daughter has tried doing the maths, has worked out i'm getting care middle rate and mobility low rate since i was awarded it a few years ago, it is also an indefinate award which i was awarded last year.

 

What my daughter is concerned about is my income support award, i was getting £64pw for this and in the last couple of months i recieved a letter saying a wasn't entitled to it and recieved another letter(sorry can't remember what it's called) a couple of weeks later to apply for something similar, was then awarded it and seems my income support has decreased to £38pw.

 

My daughter seems to think the difference from £64 to £38 which is £26, if added up from the time they say i'm being overpaid comes to roughly what they say i owe them.

 

I'm sorry if i'm confusing things here but just trying to go down any route we can try and figure this out.

 

PS my user name isn't an indication of how i feel, but my favourite sweet.

Edited November 27, 2009 by sourplums

[MIKEY DABODEE]

What rate of DLA are you on now? Did DLA pay you the correct amount twice or just the wrong rate ?

It probably should go down as official error

Your I.S may have gone down due to the above, the amount your daughter has worked out sounds like Enhanced Disability premium

Edited November 27, 2009 by MIKEY DABODEE

[ErikaPNP]

Tax credits methods have nothing to do with DLA. They are administered by two completely different departments and as such have completely different guidelines to work to.

 

You are not obliged to pay it back as they have admitted the error is on their part. They are obliged to request you pay it back, but they cannot insist on it. DLA is administered by DWP. With DWP if an overpayment results from an error you have made, or a failure to disclose then you have to pay it back. When an overpayment results from an error they have made (known as "maldadministration" or "official error") you do not have to pay it back.

 

The court of appeal upheld an argument by CPAG this year in regard to this. You can read more on this here: http://www.cpag.org.uk/welfarerights/overpayment-recovery/overpayment-recovery.htm

[sourplums]

What rate of DLA are you on now? Did DLA pay you the correct amount twice or just the wrong rate ?

It probably should go down as official error

Your I.S may have gone down due to the above, the amount your daughter has worked out sounds like Enhanced Disability premium

Hello Mikey,i get middle rate care component which is £47.10 and £18.65 mobility, i get my dla paid monthly and would have noticed if there was a larger ammount which there hasn't been, i have been getting this for roughly 8/9yrs now.

 

I was awarded indefinate payment last year, the period of overpayment is from 31/10/2007 to 30/6/2009, my oldest son done some maths last night and says the only money that adds up to that ammount would be my middle rate care component which would be £168 per month x20 but i recieved my normal money last week along with my dla, so surely if it was that, i wouldn't still be recieving it.

 

I have never recieved anything saying they are stopping my middle rate and there would be no need to as my circumstances haven't changed or likely too, only a couple of months ago i had to contact the DHS to get a confirmation letter to take to my local housing office to prove my income and what i recieved, the letter stated on it that i recieved both my mobility and care component along with my IB and my IS.

 

I am even more worried now that they have stopped my middle rate without telling me, but don't understand as i have been recieving it for a number of years with no change of circumstances, i don't like to burden people with my problems but just feel that i'm in the right place for some proper advise.

[sourplums]

You are not obliged to pay it back as they have admitted the error is on their part. They are obliged to request you pay it back, but they cannot insist on it. DLA is administered by DWP. With DWP if an overpayment results from an error you have made, or a failure to disclose then you have to pay it back. When an overpayment results from an error they have made (known as "maldadministration" or "official error") you do not have to pay it back.

 

The court of appeal upheld an argument by CPAG this year in regard to this. You can read more on this here: CPAG: Overpayment recovery test case: summary and guidance for advisers

Thank you Erika, that kind of makes me feel less uneasy reading that and the letter does say" obliged to ask you to pay it back" thing i don't understand is the wording can seem quite complicated, the thing that's kind of throwing me is " The reason for overpayment is-the reciept of more than one payment for the same period " i can't make head nor tail of that or am i right in thinking they are saying part of my dla shouldn't have been paid even though for the last few years my circumstances haven't changed and have always had it since i was first awarded it a number of years ago, sorry to be a pain. Edited November 28, 2009 by sourplums

[ErikaPNP]

Basically instead of paying you one amount, they have paid you twice (or more). They are asking for it back and have admitted it is their error, so they cannot insist you pay it back.

 

If they are going to stop your benefit for any reason, they MUST send you notification as you would have a right to appeal the decision within one month of their decision, but they have to send notification to you for the one month clock to start ticking. They cannot stop your benefit due to an overpayment if it was an error on their part.

 

If you have a printer, print out that link I posted and take it with you on Monday to show to the person you have your appointment with as some people are still unaware of the ruling by the court of appeal.

[Surfer01]

Erika is correct if they have made an "official" mistake through no fault of your own, then they cannot claim it back. I would appeal this but before doing that have a read on the regulations governing DLA type payments. Unfortuantley i do not have a link but Erika may eb able to pint you in the rigyht direction.

[ErikaPNP]

There's no need to appeal as there has been no decision made which would affect her. If they told the OP they were going to remove the money from her benefit, or alter her benefit in any way, then she could appeal as this would be a decision which affects her benefit. They are merely asking for it back, no decision has been made, therefore it's not appealable. She can write a letter telling them she is not going to repay it or she can ignore it. Either way she cannot be forced to pay it back. If she chooses to pay it back, she can do so but they would be obligated to accept any repayment she chooses, even if it was £1.00 per month.

 

Sourplums - keep that letter as they admit their error. Under no circumstances throw it away. If someone wants it, give them a copy, but keep the original - you may need it later.

 

The legislation on overpayments is set out in the Social Security Administration Act; there's nothing specific to DLA as this governs all types of DWP payments, but what is clear in the legislation is that this type of overpayment is not recoverable unless the claimant volunteers to repay it. Link to the legislation here: Social Security Administration Act 1992 (c. 5)

[sourplums]

Basically instead of paying you one amount, they have paid you twice (or more). They are asking for it back and have admitted it is their error, so they cannot insist you pay it back.

 

If they are going to stop your benefit for any reason, they MUST send you notification as you would have a right to appeal the decision within one month of their decision, but they have to send notification to you for the one month clock to start ticking. They cannot stop your benefit due to an overpayment if it was an error on their part.

 

If you have a printer, print out that link I posted and take it with you on Monday to show to the person you have your appointment with as some people are still unaware of the ruling by the court of appeal.

I'm still unsure as if you say they think they have paid me twice, do you mean when for example my dla is due at the end of the month, they think they have paid me double what i'm supposed to recieve ?

 

Have never recieved any letter nor informed them of any change in circumstances as there isn't any to report, a few weeks ago they sent me a letter saying i had more money than the goverment say you need to live on and stopped my income support, then sent me a letter saying i could apply for severe disability premium which i did,then recieved a letter few weeks later saying i was awarded £38, i really don't understand that when they were paying me the income support for a number of years for the sum of £64,

 

Ps. Erica i'm a man not a she:) really grateful for this help.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Quote

I have never recieved anything saying they are stopping my middle rate and there would be no need to as my circumstances haven't changed or likely too, only a couple of months ago i had to contact the DHS to get a confirmation letter to take to my local housing office to prove my income and what i recieved, the letter stated on it that i recieved both my mobility and care component along with my IB and my IS.

 

 

Your answer lies there. What has happened your rate of DLA has not changed but it looks like IS and DLA have both being paying your DLA benefit.

For many years I.S would combine DLA and pay the DLA benefit together with the customers I.S This made it cheaper for the department, This stopped last year and now does not go on. What looks like this has happened to you, DLA have not realised that I.S and your DLA were combined and paid your DLA to you direct as well I.S had not realised that DLA were paying you as well and paid you your DLA combined with your I.S.

 

Therefore resulting in duplicate payments being made of your DLA. When I.S realised they stopped and this resulted in your claim closing.. You must have I.B in payment . Then you were awarded SDP

 

From what date

You may be entitled to arrears of that

Edited November 28, 2009 by MIKEY DABODEE
always

[ErikaPNP]

Ps. Erica i'm a man not a she:) really grateful for this help.

Woopsie!!

 

Cue one very embarrassed Erika. I am sorry, Sourplums.

 

From what you say here of what's in the letter:

the reciept of more than one payment for the same period

It leads me to believe they have paid you the amount they should have, but they have paid it more than once.

 

For example, let's say DLA was £5.00 per week (I know it's not - just for the sake of a figure we'll say a fiver). They say you were due DLA from 07/10/09 - 28/10/09. That is four weeks and DLA is paid at a weekly rate usually 4 weeks in arrears (though sometimes it is payable weekly). On 28/10/09 they issue a payment to your bank account of £60.00 (which you would normally receive into your bank account 5 workng days later). You were only due £20.00 because it is £5 per week. (for this example, not the amount you actually get) 4 x £5 = £20. So you were overpaid £40.00 in the period 07/10/09 - 28/10/09 because you received more than one payment for that same period. Instead of paying you £20 once, they paid it three times.

 

It looks as if they think that they have paid you continually more than one amount from 2007 to 2009 which has resulted in a huge overpayment.

 

I hope this makes it clearer - though I have probably confused you more. To anyone reading this thread, please note DLA is not £5.00 per week flat rate - £5 has only been used as an example.

 

EDITED to add - I agree with Mikey that something certainly doesn't appear right if you have been receving the same amount continuously since you began claiming and haven't been informed that your award is to be decreased.

Edited November 28, 2009 by ErikaPNP
see edit note

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Erica do you think that maybe I.S and DLA have both paid

DLA not realising it was combined with I.S

 

think it could be looking that way

Edited November 28, 2009 by MIKEY DABODEE

[ErikaPNP]

Definately, Mikey.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Not sourplms fault then at all

and depending from what date they have awarded SDP from Sourplums may be actually due arrears

[sourplums]

I am begining to understand what you are saying with regards to when the IS was combined with DLA however when the IS sent me a letter in September cutting my money after reapplying I have had someone tally up the shortfall over the 20 mths and it still doesn't add up. Why can't the DWP simplify letters and give a simplified explanation in the first instance? Can someone please advise where I go next ie.. do I call the number on the letter and what do I say to them as I really have no clue??

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

Thanks

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Its sounds a night mare. I think your payment of DLA has been duplicated ie paid twice, once by DLA and combined with I.S

Its hard for me to work out figures not knowing your exact circumstances.

You say they have stopped your DLA care componant but I.S is paying you SDP, that should not be

 

I think I would take all my paperwork if I were you to your appointment

with your benefit advisor. They can look at it and see the full picture.

 

Its definately not your fault the over payment I would say. I cant advise you to contact debt but if you did I would ask them to send a fuller explanation to how the overpayment has occured and how the figures haven been worked out but admit to nothing

 

With regards to your SDP if you have just filled in the form and been awarded it, then if your circumstances have not changed then surely you must have been entitled to it from an earlier date. You may be due arrears. Welfare rights should spot this

 

Hopefully when someone has the full facts in front of them then they can

advise you what to do and help you get the overpayment written off and see if you are indeed entitled to arrears of SDP

Edited November 28, 2009 by MIKEY DABODEE

[ErikaPNP]

Don't call them yet - take Mikey's (very sound) advise and go to your appointment on Monday to see what they say when you show them the info. They may contact debt management on your behalf.

[sourplums]

Its sounds a night mare. I think your payment of DLA has been duplicated ie paid twice, once by DLA and combined with I.S

Its hard for me to work out figures not knowing your exact circumstances.

You say they have stopped your DLA care componant but I.S is paying you SDP, that should not be

 

I think I would take all my paperwork if I were you to your appointment

with your benefit advisor. They can look at it and see the full picture.

 

Its definately not your fault the over payment I would say. I cant advise you to contact debt but if you did I would ask them to send a fuller explanation to how the overpayment has occured and how the figures haven been worked out but admit to nothing

 

With regards to your SDP if you have just filled in the form and been awarded it, then if your circumstances have not changed then surely you must have been entitled to it from an earlier date. You may be due arrears. Welfare rights should spot this

 

Hopefully when someone has the full facts in front of them then they can

advise you what to do and help you get the overpayment written off and see if you are indeed entitled to arrears of SDP

They havent as far as i know Mikey stopped my care component, i was paid my fortnightly money recently which included both care & mob,my next payment is my normal IB and IS or SDA whatever it's called, just so confusing, i can't forsee my money being deducted as there's no change in circumstances nor had any letters.

 

I was recieving £64 income support on top of my IB which they then said i was being paid more than they say i need to live on and stopped it, that's when they sent me a letter saying i could be entitled to this severe disability allowance which i filled in and they awarded me £38 which left me £26 out of pocket.

 

I know it must be hard for you to help me because you dont have nothing infront of you, but i have a few old letters as well as recent ones with awards and figures on them along with dates if that helps.

 

Thank you so far for the patience you both have shown to me:)

[sourplums]

Don't call them yet - take Mikey's (very sound) advise and go to your appointment on Monday to see what they say when you show them the info. They may contact debt management on your behalf.

Erica, could i possibly if it would be alright print some of you and Mikeys replys off to take with me to my money matters appointment i may also be making an appointment with CAB at my local office and feel both your replys are very helpful and may help whoever i see, i always like to ask first rather than just take.

[ErikaPNP]

This subforum is publically accessible so there would be no issue with you printing off a thread. If you have any other letters relating to your benefits (such as award notices), take them with you also, as the person you see will be in a better position to advise you with all of your information in front of them, which we aren't privvy to.

 

The main thing you should print out is the link I gave you in regard to CPAG's court success, and the relevant part of the Social Security Administration Act in regard to overpayments in the second link (section 71), as these specifically would apply in a case where they have overpaid you as a result of official error.

 

Best wishes and let us know how it goes.

[sourplums]

Thank you and will let you know how things go tomorrow, i will also print off the link you supplied me with.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Good Luck Sourplums

hope all goes well.

 

Hopefully Ericas link will help with the overpayment,

 

I think they have just found out you are entitled to SDP and if your circumstances have not changed, why is this ?

You may be entitled to arrears and these can be backdated to the date that you were first entitled to it.

 

SDA and IB are roughly the same.

I can give you a calc if

a I know the rate of your IB

and the date you got the letter telling you that your claim was closing as you had excess income because of your SDA

Soon after they realised they had combined your DLA by mistake and that you were entitled to SDP

You must have filled out a form an IS 10

 

Your DLA should be paid weekly or monthly now, and your I,S and SDA fortnightly, they shoud NOT come together

Edited November 29, 2009 by MIKEY DABODEE