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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Breaking News - Mobile Customer's Data abused


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BBC News is reporting an investigation into the selling on of consumer information regarding their contracts (and earliest renewal dates) that have been compiled and SOLD to third parties, along with the relevant contact details. It appears that it is employees of a mobile retailer (not network) who are selling the data to brokers - and there may be criminal charges brought...

 

Listen and watch out for it....

Edited by buzby
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My contract is up for renewal this week, so I am expecting a flood of calls to 'get me a better deal, insurance etc etc etc'. I've already got it all sorted and new phone (Palm Pre - I've got the Palm Treo which I love...) arrives on Thursday!

 

I expect some people will think they can 'better the deal' but it is unlikely as I am on a corporate contract...

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My contract is up for renewal this week, so I am expecting a flood of calls to 'get me a better deal, insurance etc etc etc'. I've already got it all sorted and new phone (Palm Pre - I've got the Palm Treo which I love...) arrives on Thursday!

 

I expect some people will think they can 'better the deal' but it is unlikely as I am on a corporate contract...

 

This is how the company above were rumbled, people were getting calls when their contract was about to expire but then thinking 'hang on a minute, how did they know my contract was about to expire ?'.

 

I wonder if we can find out which company it was ?

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Just seen this on Sky News and yes I have been phoned many times about a new contract but was not phoned on my mobile has always been the landline ?

 

PF

Finally if you succeed with your claim please consider a donation to consumer action group as those donations keep this site alive.

 R.I.P BOB aka ROOSTER-UK you have always been a Gent on these boards and you will be remembered for that.

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Just wondering whether there was any opening for customers to take action against this staff member or even t mobile concerning selling customer's private data. Especially if customers signed the box not to give their information to 3rd parties.

 

This is serious stuff, feels like customers are chattels, vassals that have had their civil liabilities eroded.

 

Any ideas about any legal possibilities?

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You'd only have legal grounds for an action under the DPA if you'd suffered quantifiable damages as a result of T-Mobiles breach.

 

As you've presumably no idea whether or not your data was involved in this breach I'd suggest you need further info from T-Mobile, even if they did confirm that your data had been disclosed without your consent, you still have to prove damages, so I'd suggest any legal options you may have would depend on you finding out further information.

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I felt so strongly about the comments made by Christopher Graham on T-Mobile and Data Protection issues I added a comment on the BBC site...

 

"I am a T Mobile customer and have on each of the occasions that my contract was due to expire, been approached (verbally) by another company using very cleverly worded pitches to make me believe they were associated with T Mobile and that I would be put onto a better business package. They also offered to pay any remainder of the contract costs in order to end early and start the new contract sooner.

 

What I found even more disturbing is that I am a Private Investigator and what Mr Christopher Graham failed to realise is that the thoughtless comments about private Investigators obtaining information through blagging and selling it on to others is wholly unjustified. There may indeed be a few individual cases but the man has clearly shunted the entire Investigative industry with such a careless comment. personally his words need to be chosen more carefully in future and an apology would not go amiss in this instance.

 

My fellow colleagues and I are all disturb by these comments. Individual cases such as the T Mobile should be "Individually" dealt with and refrain from using other industries as an example where there may only be a few isolated cases."

 

BBC NEWS | UK | T-Mobile staff sold personal data

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Well here we go , as reported on the news T mobile employees have been selling our data , so it seems according to the News and the ICO .

That explains all the annoying selling calls and I presume that all data can be sold on again and again ad infinitum , cant put the egg back in the shell now .

Can we sue T mobile for this obvious breach of The Data protection Act , and if so how ?

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The answer is that you can seek compensation under the Data Protection Act, however, you have to be able to prove damages.

 

The questions then become:

 

1) Were your details disclosed? (Not everyone's were apparently.) Can you prove your details we disclosed by T-Mobile, or will they confirm the breach applied to you?

 

2) What damage has this disclosure caused? And I mean damage in the legal sense. If you've suffered damage and this has caused you distress you also can claim for this.

 

You can't usually claim solely for distress in DPA related litigation unless the data is being processed for special purposes and this wasn't the case here.

 

You could theoretically start litigation against T-Mobile for compensation, however, you'd have to prove the breach and the damages. In my view any damage in relation to this breach is likely to be minimal, the odd annoying phone call from a salesperson isn't likely to result in any substantive damage to you, however, I'm open to suggestions as to what sort of damage you think T-Mobile may have caused you as a result of a breach in relation to this matter.

 

Generally I think it would be time consuming and difficult to prove that you were subject to this breach, it'd also be tricky to prove damages in relation to the breach, so any legal action would probably be very speculative.

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The answer is that you can seek compensation under the Data Protection Act, however, you have to be able to prove damages.

 

The questions then become:

 

1) Were your details disclosed? (Not everyone's were apparently.) Can you prove your details we disclosed by T-Mobile, or will they confirm the breach applied to you?

 

2) What damage has this disclosure caused? And I mean damage in the legal sense. If you've suffered damage and this has caused you distress you also can claim for this.

 

You can't usually claim solely for distress in DPA related litigation unless the data is being processed for special purposes and this wasn't the case here.

 

You could theoretically start litigation against T-Mobile for compensation, however, you'd have to prove the breach and the damages. In my view any damage in relation to this breach is likely to be minimal, the odd annoying phone call from a salesperson isn't likely to result in any substantive damage to you, however, I'm open to suggestions as to what sort of damage you think T-Mobile may have caused you as a result of a breach in relation to this matter.

 

Generally I think it would be time consuming and difficult to prove that you were subject to this breach, it'd also be tricky to prove damages in relation to the breach, so any legal action would probably be very speculative.

 

Thank you for your reply , I was thinking along the lines of the Government child database fiasco . An approximate sum of £300 was suggested then , on the grounds that one had to continuously review one's security arrangements as the breach is ongoing , who knows where that info is or will end up . There is enough given to a mobile phone provider to enable identity theft and this ongoing threat more than the annoying phone calls is the real

distress . As to proof that my data was sold the third party phone calls before the expiration of the contract , the initial reason for the sale of details is suggestive that they were sold .

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Actually, no it doesn't.

 

Unsolicited calls to phone users on ALL networks has been common, all state you are coming up to renewal and offering a 'good deal'. This [problem] has been running since 1996, and probably earlier, and doesn;t require any network to lose data.

 

The forum has had legions of complaints of recieving calls from 'their' network offering an upgrade that turns out to be a new contract. Many brokers keep up to date with the issued number allocations on each network, and know when the 12/18 months is almost up to prompt a call. So - ther's nothing really new - just T-Mobile (soon to be no more, anyway) not treating their customer data with the respect it deserves.

 

But dont confuse this with upgrade calls always meaning nicked data....

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Thank you for your reply , I was thinking along the lines of the Government child database fiasco . An approximate sum of £300 was suggested then , on the grounds that one had to continuously review one's security arrangements as the breach is ongoing , who knows where that info is or will end up . There is enough given to a mobile phone provider to enable identity theft and this ongoing threat more than the annoying phone calls is the real

distress . As to proof that my data was sold the third party phone calls before the expiration of the contract , the initial reason for the sale of details is suggestive that they were sold .

 

Did the goverment actually pay £300 to anyone?

 

If you were able to get confirmation that your data had been affected by this breach then I'd have thought T-Mobile could mitigate any potential identity theft by applying a CIFAS flag to your credit file, this would cost them £12 or £13 quid and could prevent identity fraud for 12 months from the date of its application.

 

The other problem is T-Mobile haven't specified what data has been stolen from them, they've confirmed that millions of pieces of personal data may have been stolen from them by a former employee in relation to thousands of customers, but they have 15 million + customers, the maths would suggest not everyone's data has been disclosed.

 

If its just your mobile number, name and contract renewal date then the risk of identity theft would probably be low, if their employee has stolen your full name and address, plus mobile numbers and other data held by them the risk would be considerably higher.

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Did the goverment actually pay £300 to anyone?

 

If you were able to get confirmation that your data had been affected by this breach then I'd have thought T-Mobile could mitigate any potential identity theft by applying a CIFAS flag to your credit file, this would cost them £12 or £13 quid and could prevent identity fraud for 12 months from the date of its application.

 

The other problem is T-Mobile haven't specified what data has been stolen from them, they've confirmed that millions of pieces of personal data may have been stolen from them by a former employee in relation to thousands of customers, but they have 15 million + customers, the maths would suggest not everyone's data has been disclosed.

 

If its just your mobile number, name and contract renewal date then the risk of identity theft would probably be low, if their employee has stolen your full name and address, plus mobile numbers and other data held by them the risk would be considerably higher.

Surprise surprise T mobile have not specified what data has been stolen , if I recall any application includes name ,time at and address , telephone nos, date of birth, perhaps employment details , bank acct . What else does an identity thief need ?

With all due respect , I note from your previous threads that you are a para legal with a telecoms corp , i do hope that there is no conflict of interest here .

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Did the goverment actually pay £300 to anyone?

 

If you were able to get confirmation that your data had been affected by this breach then I'd have thought T-Mobile could mitigate any potential identity theft by applying a CIFAS flag to your credit file, this would cost them £12 or £13 quid and could prevent identity fraud for 12 months from the date of its application.

 

The other problem is T-Mobile haven't specified what data has been stolen from them, they've confirmed that millions of pieces of personal data may have been stolen from them by a former employee in relation to thousands of customers, but they have 15 million + customers, the maths would suggest not everyone's data has been disclosed.

 

If its just your mobile number, name and contract renewal date then the risk of identity theft would probably be low, if their employee has stolen your full name and address, plus mobile numbers and other data held by them the risk would be considerably higher.

 

No I am childless , but I did get £300 plus from a financial firm for a similar breach where an employee had sold on details in a similar fashion , I cannot say any more about that as the walls have ears .

A CIfas flag would only be good for 12 months , this information cannot be put back into Pandorras box and therefore will still be toxic in and after the expiration of any flag .

Also reading an interesting post by Busby where , it is stated that a Cifas flag does not differentiate between a Fraud to and fraud by , unless manually done , therby branding in the majority of automated applications etc , the credit file holder a potential fraudster . Nice first you get your details nicked and then in compensation you are royally messed up . Insult to Injury methinks .

Edited by noddyaccount
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I felt so strongly about the comments made by Christopher Graham on T-Mobile and Data Protection issues I added a comment on the BBC site...

 

"I am a T Mobile customer and have on each of the occasions that my contract was due to expire, been approached (verbally) by another company using very cleverly worded pitches to make me believe they were associated with T Mobile and that I would be put onto a better business package. They also offered to pay any remainder of the contract costs in order to end early and start the new contract sooner.

 

What I found even more disturbing is that I am a Private Investigator and what Mr Christopher Graham failed to realise is that the thoughtless comments about private Investigators obtaining information through blagging and selling it on to others is wholly unjustified. There may indeed be a few individual cases but the man has clearly shunted the entire Investigative industry with such a careless comment. personally his words need to be chosen more carefully in future and an apology would not go amiss in this instance.

 

My fellow colleagues and I are all disturb by these comments. Individual cases such as the T Mobile should be "Individually" dealt with and refrain from using other industries as an example where there may only be a few isolated cases."

 

BBC NEWS | UK | T-Mobile staff sold personal data

 

Can you find out who stole the data and how much they stole ? I also have a very long piece of string , can anyone please tell me how long it is ?

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Just had a call from 3g wanting to know if I needed a new contract with them, seeing as they can't better the deal I get with O2 I told them to get lost... somebody is passing this data around and the culprits should be shot.

 

My phone is registered with the relevant preference services but I still get these 'marketing' calls, one loan company had the cheek to tell me 'three years ago you applied for a loan and was unsuccessful, we can help you now...' I won't repeat on here what I said but it was rather short and terse!

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Well, I've worked for t-mobile and o2 in the past, through outsourcing companies and I've had full Internet access along side their programs (which are both browser based) and I have to say I feel it would be easy to just copy loads of data from their systems to the Internet! (or add a Trojan to the Internet explorer on that system to send the data). Obviously I'm not the kind of person to do that, and although I'm good with computers, and I understand about networking and moving data I'd not be able to program a Trojan myself, I do feel that someone who has that mind-set and who has the ability to do that would have no problem getting a job for either company. I recall 1 guy working for about 2 weeks, then he got escorted off the premises by security. Turns out he had a criminal record for fraud and the criminal record check hadn't come in until he'd been working for them for a period of time!

 

The trouble is, these companies want cheep workforce. In lowering the cost of staff something has to give and in a place where 1000's of people are employed and have a fast turnover of staff, and an under-funded team of people doing the checks, things are going to fall through the cracks. This data is worth so much to fraudsters and identity thieves when you consider to get a mobile contract you have to have a good credit rating!

 

I think this story has gone quiet because there are still ongoing criminal investigations. I hope some of this points at T-Mobiles security being inadequate and all companies will have to tighten up on this sort of thing!

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They ALL do 3G.

 

Do remember what happens to your data may have nothing to do with your network. Who did you get your first contract from? CW, P4U? ALL these retailers know this data is valuable, and make use of it for their own purposes.

 

Best yet is those 'Compare' websites. They may promise to simplify getting Insurance or whatever and you only disclose your details ONCE, the trouble is - your data file is then sent (like a waterfall) to the relevant firms identified as offering quotes. Those that refuse or won't offer cover will then pass on this same data to associated firms that might - and they get PAID for doing so.

 

All these incidents are not breaking TPS/MPS initiatives because they class this as a direct response, or for mobiles, an existing established relationship.

 

Nothing at all to do with data being hijacked - just a system set up to make money at your expense, whether you loke it or not. Even giving your details to Royal Mail for redirection (and PAYING for it) redirection is the last service they provide, there is a list of companies that all get your revised details, DHSS, TVLRO, CRA's and they all pay RM for it.

 

 

Pretty neat, huh?

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Well, I've worked for t-mobile and o2 in the past, through outsourcing companies and I've had full Internet access along side their programs (which are both browser based) and I have to say I feel it would be easy to just copy loads of data from their systems to the Internet! (or add a Trojan to the Internet explorer on that system to send the data). Obviously I'm not the kind of person to do that, and although I'm good with computers, and I understand about networking and moving data I'd not be able to program a Trojan myself, I do feel that someone who has that mind-set and who has the ability to do that would have no problem getting a job for either company. I recall 1 guy working for about 2 weeks, then he got escorted off the premises by security. Turns out he had a criminal record for fraud and the criminal record check hadn't come in until he'd been working for them for a period of time!

 

The trouble is, these companies want cheep workforce. In lowering the cost of staff something has to give and in a place where 1000's of people are employed and have a fast turnover of staff, and an under-funded team of people doing the checks, things are going to fall through the cracks. This data is worth so much to fraudsters and identity thieves when you consider to get a mobile contract you have to have a good credit rating!

 

I think this story has gone quiet because there are still ongoing criminal investigations. I hope some of this points at T-Mobiles security being inadequate and all companies will have to tighten up on this sort of thing!

 

Yep, I'm the same, have worked for both T-mobile and o2. I agree, the full internet access with t-mobile it would be VERY easy to copy bank details.

 

Funnily enough though, people calling o2 payments line always seem to be annoyed when we state that we can't store card details for future. Personally, I would be very worried and angry if any random employee could view my card number, security numbers etc. hmm.

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  • 2 weeks later...

have just had a phone call from "Home Services Marketing" purporting to be "3". trying it on basically,offering the usual upgrades, they also had my full name,

"Home Services Marketing" i found their name on the website "whocallsme" it was a freephone number they had used. they got the rough end of my tongue !! (easy really,they rang at wrong time hehehe,hubby hadnt done the washing up !! )

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