What do you want?

[usaname]

Up until the end of August I was happy with my dealings with MBNA. I had been paying regularly and, despite the increases in interest rate, was slowly reducing the balance. I can't remember the last time I used the card. At one of the interest rate increases I cut the card in half and destroyed the chip.

 

Having finished some temporary employment I contacted MBNA and explained the situation. The person I spoke to was very helpful and suggested I complete an income/expenditure analysis and get back with the results and so that a solution/reduced payment/interest suspension could be arrived at.

 

After completing the exercise I called back a few days later with a proposal. The person I spoke with was the total opposite of the earlier one. The offer was rejected. I then suggested that they take me to court for it to determine a payment plan. The information that I was given was that MBNA wouldn't do that but would sell the account onto a Debt Collection Agency. My answer was to tell them to put their plan into action.

 

I started to think about how where I stand, from a legal viewpoint, with the party that the debt would be passed to and whether the recovery of debt would be enforceable. In my search for information I came across this forum, started reading, eventually signed up and have made a few contributions.

 

Following in the steps of many of you I requested a copy of the CCA. Unlike a lot of reports I got mine back pretty quickly - within 10 days. It will come as no surprise that it falls down on some aspects and as such I have written back putting the account into dispute and ultimately requesting that the debt be written off. I'd be very surprised if it happens. But is it what I want? It's certainly what I'd like.

 

That leads me onto the purpose of writing this. What is the outcome that I am seeking. What is the outcome that you are seeking?

 

I feel, ultimately, fairness is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for MBNA to treat me fairly and I'm looking to treat MBNA, despite all their failings etc., fairly.

 

Is the unjustifiable increase in interest rates fair treatment? Especially when interest rates everywhere else have fallen, bumping them up is not fair at all. Is trying to get the debt written off fair? No, not really. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I'm sure that an impasse will arise, as with many others before me. To quote haggis1984 in another posting "The creditor doesn't have an agreement they can get a court judgement with but refuses to write-off the debt." Is this what I want? No.

 

I've no issue in admitting the debt or, at most, part of it exists. I've used the card, I've had the goods, I owe the money. And to pay that back to MBNA is fair. What isn't fair is the 34%+ APR that is being applied, just because they can, just because the debtor is backed into a corner. Their angle is "you can't afford to pay it all off in one go, so were going to make sure you can't pay it off, ever, hopefully".

 

I want to avoid the impasse, I want fairness, I want a solution. I'm sure that the majority of you reading this will want exactly the same. So how can it be achieved?

 

The crux of the issue, for me anyway, is MBNA's intransigence in accepting a reduced payment plan and the extortionate, unjustifiable interest that is being applied.

 

If MBNA concede that the alleged agreement is unenforceable but are unwilling to write the debt off then the my suggested resolution is this. Total all the purchases that have been made since the card was taken out. Total all the payments that have been made to the account. Subtract the total payments from the total spend. If the result is positive then that's what I'll agree to pay off. If the result is negative then they owe me. Effectively, that makes it an interest free loan. I'll be happy with that. No winners, no losers. That's fair.

 

I feel better for getting that off my chest. Hopefully it will have provided you with something to think about and consider.

 

What do you want?

[lexis200]

I started out with exactly the same thoughts as you. I had had the money for whatever reason (I am not sitting here surrounded by flatscreen tellies and luxuries, but I did use it to live on in hard times) so surely I should pay it back.

 

Well yes, until you consider exactly what you said in one of your last paras - if you total what you've spent and what you've paid, what do you end up with? Almost all of my cards have been paid off and then some. Everything that is left is interest and charges. So, I am now paying them for illegal charges and inflated interest.

 

Add to the mix what happens when you CCA them. Most of mine (and OH's) agreements are nothing more than application forms with a signature. No terms, no details, and often illegible to boot. This means legally they should not have asked you for payments. They gave the money as a goodwill gesture. Now I don't quite hold with that, as we all know what we're doing when we sign up for credit, and much as I like the idea of getting all the interest I've ever paid back (that would not only get me out of debt but get me well on the way to being quite comfortable for a good while) it doesn't sit well with me. Of course that said, if they offered it I wouldn't refuse...

 

What is certain though is the lack of an agreement is a big thing. This is a large, professional institution. They, and their vast teams of solicitors and various other legal bods have sent out hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of agreements which are nothing more than a data protection agreement with a load of advertising for their other products on.

 

There is no excuse for this. If you look around the web you can find out exactly how to format a proper agreement. I could make one. For them to cock it up just so they can flog their other products to the general public is incredibly unjust at best.

 

This is when I begin to have less of a problem with not paying etc. If I am on the wrong end of a contract that has no legal merit whatsoever, then I have no qualms about using whatever means possible to shut that contract down. It is not my problem that they didn't get their house in order before sending this stuff out. They've had 30+ years to get it right.

 

What I want? Well that's changed. I did want it all to disappear. That's not happening. What I really really want now is for the banks to play fair. When they have no legal right to default me, I want them to not default me. When they have no agreement, I want them to admit that, not claim black is white.

 

I now want to come to a fair compromise and just get shot of the stress. They don't.

 

With regards to your offer to MBNA; if your proposal wasn't enough to clear the debt in something like 100 months (I forget the exact number, but I have an MBNA thread that shows it) then they will not accept it. This is an American rule they go by, despite being in the UK.

 

They won't take you to court, and 7 months after you have not paid them what they want when they want it, they will default you and sell your account, probably to their in-house monkeys DCRI. That said, if you are ok with a default, DCRI will probably accept your offer (ridiculous as that sounds, seeing as they are the same company!).

 

Whilst you get to this point, if you are persistant with letters (please don't phone them unless you have recording abilities set up - they do lie, I have it recorded as do many others!) MBNA may well eventually freeze the interest and charges. It took about 5 letters and two months for this to happen with us if I remember rightly. Again, I think it's in my thread if you want to look.

 

Your post is very reasoned and you sound like a sensible person, so I should warn you that you're going to get seriously hacked off with the nonsense you get from them (and indeed any creditor when you have an issue with them). You will no doubt put forward many logical and reasoned suggestions with how to proceed, and they will likely be knocked back at you.

 

There are many 'heads' of customer service, and you'll probably get a round robin of letters from the lot of them. The only time I get a vaguely personal response is after writing to (one of?) the VP's - Gail Powell - but even then I've had flat out lies written to me.

 

I do hope you manage to find the one person there who has some sense and the ability to think past the script they are given, but I'm afraid they are an incredibly hard company to deal with, not least because they seem convinced they are governed by US laws rather than UK ones.

[silverfox1961]

Two excellent posts.

 

Banks-fair. Don't make me laugh. While everything is going smoothly they are your best mate but as soon as the sh*t hits the fan they drop you like hot potatoes.

As soon as that happens, I think it is fair to treat them exactly as they treat you.

 

fox

[lexis200]

What he said:D

[MeeBroke]

I, like many on this forum and around the UK, am an upstanding citzen with a good stable job. I pay all my bills on time, aways have. One day I had this misfortune to open an account with MBNA. They convinced me to transfer balances from other small cards as well. I dutifully paid them every month, on time by direct debit, for 5 years. Never late, never under paid.

 

One day, they ramped up the interest to over 30% on my account. I called to find out why. It was the first time I had ever spoken to them. They spoke to me like I was a criminal, not a long-time good-paying client. They refused to give any idea as to why the interest was increased nor would they budge on lowering it.

 

I knew I must have rights so I CCA'd them so I could look at the details of the account closely-and have a professional look them over. The result has been months of stress, endless harassment, damage to what was a perfect credit score etc.

 

I will not give up. I have done nothing wrong. My stress, the effect on my reputation and the way MBNA has treated me has value. That value is now much greater than any figure that MBNA feels I may owe them. I intend to pursue them to the end.

 

No company, bank or otherwise should be able to mess with people's lives like this-people who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

[PGH7447]

It as already been said many times, most people will/would pay their debts, if they were given fair treatment, the sad thing is these firms both Banks and DCA's view yuo the customer as a source of funds, you are not a person you are a money pot to be shaken at regular intervals to see what they can get out of you before you start to realise that they are in fact taking the proverbial.

 

In the bad old days before the internet everybody thought they were the only ones in these situations and felt that the only way out was to comply to both their outrageous interest rates and demands for more and more money when thinks turned sour.

 

Well they should now be realising that people are getting together (CAG) and other forums and the worms (Us) are turning out to have quite a few sets of very sharp teeth.

 

Do these firms like it of course not, they now realsie that the endless stream of cheap cash is drying up, and that in many cases they will have to actually return some pots of gold from whence it came.

 

Do I feel guilty about not paying back some debts, if they had treated me in a civilised manner then yes I would, as it is these **** treat everyone the same, and that is as a wont pay, not cant pay at the moment, and I would actually have liked some help and assistance not threats and intimidation.

[MeeBroke]

It as already been said many times, most people will/would pay their debts, if they were given fair treatment, the sad thing is these firms both Banks and DCA's view yuo the customer as a source of funds, you are not a person you are a money pot to be shaken at regular intervals to see what they can get out of you before you start to realise that they are in fact taking the proverbial.

 

I think this points out the fact that people are definately on these sites for different reasons.

 

Although I have a few creditors, I only have a problem with MBNA. I made my bed when I took out credit and am happy to lie in it. I am not pursuing any of my other creditors as they have been fair and open. I continue to pay my bills with the others dutifully.

 

It was only after I got into this situation that I discovered that MBNA are openly notorious for their illegal and aborant tactics.

[PGH7447]

I think this points out the fact that people are definately on these sites for different reasons.

 

.

 

But most people are forced here when they start to get the hassle and stress dished out by the DCA's that is how I found this site.

 

So moral of the story dont dish out threats etc and people may just suprise you and come to an arrangment.

 

Simples

[vint1954]

I think we all found our way here, having tried to deal with the likes of MBNA on a fair footing.

 

If you have an account operating for many years, without a single problem until you hit a financial crisis, my opinion is that your creditors should be willing to help for a short period, if only to retain you as a good customer. Not a bit of it. To a man, my 3 creditors treated me not as a valued customer but as the reincarnation of Jack the Ripper. Having been made redundant, I paid reduced amounts to them all each month, despite their refusal to accept the figure. When I realised that I was not a valued customer and never had been, my opinion of them changed.

 

I think most people take the actions that they do against creditors, in defence more than anything else. Some will of course try to get out of their debts by using loopholes, however most on this forum are here, or come here initially because they are treated so appallingly by their creditors, at a time of huge financial stress and with no other options.

 

Should you pay your debts: Yes but in a fair and resonable relationship.

 

Will you willingly return to paying your creditors when you can: Probably not, given their totally unreasonable behaviour.

 

Can you be blamed for taking that attitude: No.

[vint1954]

I think this points out the fact that people are definately on these sites for different reasons.

 

Although I have a few creditors, I only have a problem with MBNA. I made my bed when I took out credit and am happy to lie in it. I am not pursuing any of my other creditors as they have been fair and open. I continue to pay my bills with the others dutifully.

 

It was only after I got into this situation that I discovered that MBNA are openly notorious for their illegal and aborant tactics.

I don't think many on this forum, found their way here to just avoid paying their debts. There have been some, but they are soon found out and ignored.

 

You also need to realise that when most people find their way here, it is a choice of paying the CCC's or eating, through a dramatic change in circumstances.

 

Even if finances eventually improve, how are you to then view a creditor who has driven people to dispair over the short term with threats and intimidation rather than structured assistance.

[lexis200]

But most people are forced here when they start to get the hassle and stress dished out by the DCA's that is how I found this site.

 

So moral of the story dont dish out threats etc and people may just suprise you and come to an arrangment.

 

Simples

 

Bingo. I started trying to get payment plans set up, they said they would but that they'd have to default me first! I went from having a completely clean file to being trashed all for saying 'please help'.

 

It was co-op who really drove me here though. Wouldn't accept my offer full stop (and they were the lowest balance by a long shot), said I had to pay x amount to bring it up to date before they'd consider a plan (I'd started paying the lower amount out of necessity), then said - in the same call as getting me to pay the arrears - that as the account was up to date they wouldn't consider a payment plan:mad: When they finally did agree, they still kept interest going.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - ethical bank my bum.

[mahul04]

I agree with you ... i have been with mbna since2002 they had more than enough money from me over the years .. now that they have been found out that they have not done what they sould have they have turned nasty on everyone who wishes to challenge them .

I will not give in to this bullying and harrasment and so should anybody else...

[vint1954]

But most people are forced here when they start to get the hassle and stress dished out by the DCA's that is how I found this site.

 

So moral of the story dont dish out threats etc and people may just suprise you and come to an arrangment.

 

Simples

Quite agree

[mahul04]

has any dealt with optima legal yet ???????

[MeeBroke]

I don't think many on this forum, found their way here to just avoid paying their debts. There have been some, but they are soon found out and ignored.

 

You also need to realise that when most people find their way here, it is a choice of paying the CCC's or eating, through a dramatic change in circumstances.

 

Even if finances eventually improve, how are you to then view a creditor who has driven people to dispair over the short term with threats and intimidation rather than structured assistance.

 

 

Sorry, I hope I didn't come off as condecending to anyone seeking help from these forums. I didn't mean to. Everyone has their reasons for being in this situation. All clearly share the same horiible experience with MBNA.

 

All it would take is just ONE MP to take this on as their person war. Expose MBNA and how they are utterly destroying people.

[mahul04]

again you hit the nail on the head .we are all on this forum all with different reasons for being here, but with a common goal which is to give MBNA AS ROUGH TIME AS THEY ARE GIVING US......