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    • Please see my witness statement below.  Please let me know what modifications I need to apply.  I haven't included anything related to "administrative charge while paying by credit or debit card" as I wasn't sure if I should include since sign says "it may apply"   Background  1.1 Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of November 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.    Contract  2.1 No Locus Standi, I do not believe a contract exists with the landowner that gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” From PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) 2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-  (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or  (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44  For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.    Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed  3.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.  3.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.  3.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.  3.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.    Unfair PCN  4.1         As stipulated in Exhibit 1 (Pages 7-13) sent by DCB Legal following the defendant’s CPR request the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows £60.00 parking charge notice and will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue. The defendant puts it to the claimant a request for strict proof when the signage changed to show £100.00 parking charge as the evidence provided by DCB Legal stipulated £60.00 parking charge was indeed the parking charge at the time defendant parked and included in Exhibit 1   4.3        The Claimant did not respect PAPLOC   4.4        It is also unfair to delay litigation for so long and claim nearly four years' interest.    No Keeper Liability  5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.  5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.    5.3        The claimant did not mention parking period instead only mentioned time 20:25 which is not sufficient to qualify as a parking period.   Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  The notice must -  (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;      No Breach of Contract  6.1      No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY.  6.2        The wording “Electric Bay Abuse” is not listed on their signs nor there is any mention on the contract of any electric charging points at all let alone who can park there or use them.    Double Recovery  7.1        As well as the original £100 parking charge and £50 allowed court/legal costs, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  7.2        PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper”. Which in this case is £100.  7.3        The Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is also quite clear that the maximum amount recoverable is £100.  Government ministers and government web pages explaining the Act refer to extra charges as "a rip off".  7.4        Unless the Claimant can clearly demonstrate how these alleged additional costs have been incurred this would appear to be an attempt at double recovery.  7.5        Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery i.e. Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since the sum £85 was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of all the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court V Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practise continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (...) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6        In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating “It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgement in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a addi8onal sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.  7.7        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  7.8        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  7.9        The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the PoFA AND THE CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.    In Conclusion  8.1        I believe the Claimant has got use to intimidation tactics and has got greedy. I believe the truth of the manor is the Claimant has used bullying tactics successfully for too long and is therefore assured that innocent drivers will fall into the trap of paying rather than going through the hours it takes to defend themselves. In the process, wasting the time of the Court, the time of the Defendant and everyone else who has advised the Defendant, out of sheer decency to help have a fair hearing and see justice delivered.  8.2        I am still in disbelief that I am being heard in this court, defending myself nearly 4 years after receiving a charge through my door. I have had to spend weeks’ worth of my life studying the letter of the law in order to defend myself from this ridiculous attempt at a swindle.  8.3        I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 
    • 'I thought why don’t we give it a try?' said student Swapnil Shrivastav, after inspiration struck during water rations.View the full article
    • honestly he/she just makes these ppc look so stupid everytime   fairplay lfi
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Coco v Lloyds


cococat
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i'm at the stage where I sent my Letter Before Action a week ago! Am not very good with computers and it's taken me till now to figure the whole forum thing out!

 

Am unsure about the six year rule, can someone help? Do you count six years back from when you first write to them and ask for all the charges back (in my case that's over a thousand pounds!) Or - do you go back to the last time they charged you and count six years back from their last offence?

 

I've done it the second way - counted back six years from their last offence but, on one account that takes me back to January 2000. have I got it horribly wrong?

 

help!

Coco x

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It is from when you first became aware that their charges were unlawful, so a rule of thumb is when you sent off for hte DPA request.

Please note that I am not a legal expert and all advice given is without prejudice and is purely my opinion only.

 

** Nationwide - £1821.15-PAID IN FULL - Aug 06 **

** Halifax Mortgage -£390 - PAID IN FULL - Nov 06 **

Lloyds TSB - MCOL issued 09/03/07 - £2953 + costs - ON HOLD....

 

 

 

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Thank you for that, am now going to tackle my excel sheets!

 

Can you tell me if there is a formula I can put in that means excel will count the number of days between each charge or do I have to do it manually? I've got the worksheet which lays the sheet out clearly but I don't have a 'Calculations Tab' on my toolbar options and I don't know what to do

 

Many thanks

Coco

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Hello!

Am v inexperienced with computers and it's taken me ages to 'hack' in to being able to talk to anyone, relieved to be able to ask questions and join in now, just writing this has boosted me - don't feel so alone!

Asked for statements from Lloyds 9th June, wrote my own letter on 14th July - ie not from templates library as I didn't know you existed, I was acting on a tv programme I'd seen - demanding over £1000 in charges back. Got bog standard reply. Next letter, 22nd July, was your preliminary letter. Am now at the stage where my letter before action went last week. Am going to have to write to them again with modified schedule of the charges am claiming for because I was unsure of when the six years should start from - have I screwed it up? Does anyone have any advice about how I can word the new - reduced - amount am claiming for to make it all legal?

And what are the formulas to make the excel sheet do the calculations for you? I don't have a 'Calculations Tab' on my toolbar - so I am very stuck!

Feels good to be fighting back!

Coco

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Coco You can send them another letter using the lba from the bank temps letters......see my link on bottom.

 

 

Somewhere in the body of the letter you could add the following.

 

My attention has been drawn to the limitations act,and as such I will be claiming from.......

An amended charges schedule is enclosed which lists the charges/dates.

 

 

 

You will find various versions of spreadsheets that work with different operating software.(see link again under temps)

 

The fact that you have started your action and have submitted figures,should not affect your ability to proceed.Simply make the adjustments to your figures

and let them know.

 

Help is available should you need it.

 

Martin

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Yep leave the timescale......all you need do extra is allow them 2 or 3 days to get the revision.If thats still within the 14 fine.:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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posted letter with ameneded charges off yesterday - there was only one for £10 that was 6 years and 1 month before I asked for all my old statements so isn't too bad.

 

Thanks for several replies I've had re my struggles with ?>c^&*g Excel. I've followed all the advice, ie I've deleted columns B, C and D and put my own values in. have entered these values directly onto Excel - English - simple from the correct thread - nothing! I've dragged down from '8%' and 'Number of days since offence' - nothing! I've searched my toolbar for calculations function - nothing! It just says 'value?'

I am working on a mac - could that be why nothings happening? If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them - even swearing at my computer isn't making me feel any better any more!

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I think, for whatever reason, I'm going to have to do these calculations manually. Do you have any advice maths tips, that will make it any easier? Any help greatfully received!

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Gods Teeth!!!!

That is one of the longest fouty eight hours of my life to date but I have the 8% speadsheet filled in and ready to go - posting the money claim stuff on Sunday and then the easy bit!

feel physically sick at the idea of going to court but after the effort of counting back over six years worth of days on my fingers I am not going to give up now!

Thanks for all your help x

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Coco Well done.

 

No one said it would be easy....and the whole process can for some people be really physically and emotionally draining.

For many,seeing others get their refunds,spurs them on.

No 2 claims are the same and it can be frustrating to try and work out what the banks are up to.

At the end of it all tho......in your case the hard work is all done,and you can look forward to seeing results for your efforts pretty soon.

 

When you do get your refund you will agree that its all been worthwhile.

 

 

:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've posted my allocation questionnaire today against Lloyds TSB. Despite the advice on these pages I've closed my account with lloyds and moved my credit card. I just don't trust them anymore and want nothing more to do with the organisation.

I would say to anyone who's getting nervous - just hang on in there! It all happens exactly as this site says it will. I had a wobble when I couldn't get the Excel spreadsheets to work out the 8% interest and stated to think - what's the point? But, after spending days working the interest out in my head (I didn't - but that's what it felt like!) I'm now happy to see this to the end. I think everyone has a crunch point and if you get through that you know you're going to see it through!

All the info and help you'll need is here - just do your research and be brave!

 

Having said all that though I do have a general question please? I'm getting married in ten days time (hooray!) and will be changing my name. I've told the County Court, but do I need to write to Lloyds solicitors and tell them as well?

 

Hopefully, this will be uncomplicated - I'm dealing with Lloyds so I know it will take as long as they can make it last, but it's Court or write me a cheque time!!

 

Cococat

**MOD note: Threads merged, please keep to one thread for your claim. Good luck.**

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Please can someone help me with my last question? Do I need to tell Lloyds solicitors I will be changing my name or is it enough to tell the Court?

Even if no-one knows, could you advise me who I need to ask to find out?

 

Many thanks

Coco

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  • 3 weeks later...

new bank account is in my married name. I've put my change of name request on my allocation questionnaire and sent a copy of that to their solicitors so I hope that will do it. Got a court date back - 12th Jan. Lloyds are also calling a witness which alarms me but will just have to wait and see who that is. looking at the info from the County Court, they will have to declare who they'll be using fourteen days before the hearing anyway so I'll have some idea of what to expect.

Court have asked me to file a schedule of charges with them as well. Can I submit the list with the 8% interest up to the 12th Jan 07? It'll be longer than six years - Lloyds first offence was 10.09.01, but it seems logical that if I'm applying interest to the money unlawfully taken from me - and Lloyds are applying delaying tactics in the hope that I'll go away - I should make some money out of them avoiding paying me back the money the took?

As you know, I couldn't get Excel to work at all. I used the online calculator kindly posted for me on this forum, but it doesn't go beyond 2006. Can I include 8%interest up to the court date> And, if I can, can someone tell me how I can put 2007 in the online calculator please?

 

Thank you so much for your help

Mrs Cococat!

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Have printed the lists of for both accounts with the 8% as originally sent with my Letter Before Action. Am also going to add the cost of the Small Claims guide book recommended by this forum.

Am just looking for reassurance with this next question, I read through the forum thoroughly before I started but haven't been able to see anything to put my mind at ease this time round. Can you include 'Overdraft excess fee' in your lists of charges? Some of mine are £50 and £60!

Just getting twitchy as elsewhere on the forum banks are settling before they get to the stage I'm at....Even Lloyds! Just another 15 weeks or so to go and then I can relax again!

 

Coco

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thank you for that, it's easy to get a bit angry and start trying to get more than it is safe to do so, just got to take a deep breath and stick to the rules. Went into the court and gave them an amended list of final charges - with the£17.10 for the book taken off. sent a letter to Lloyds solicitors in Brighton, recorded delivery saying this list superceeded the previous one.

 

Still haven't heard from their solicitors or the court..... Am I right in thinking that I'll have to write to Lloyds solicitors 21 days before the court date and give them a list of what I'm using in my defence? And, do they have to return the favour for me and tell me what they are going to do? I have a feeling that I will go to court. Others on the forum all seem to have been offered settlements well before they've reached where I am but I won't give up!

If, somehow, I've done something wrong that has allowed them a way to win then I will let everyone know immediately. At the end of a day this is a team effort. Although it would be nice to get my own money back..........!

 

cococat

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, the court bundle has gone - one to Lloyds solicitors and one to the court. I basically used the court bundle from this web site. I didn't include my statements cos six years worth from two accounts was a hell of a lot of paper.

I used the lists Lloyds sent me instead listing the date of each charge and the amount as well as the schedule of charges with the 8% interest added.

I also included a BBC press release from the Money Programme about a report they broadcast where a barrister and experts from the financial world confirmed that the maximum any default would ever cost a bank was £4.50. It's an excellent article and I'd recommend it to anyone facing court.

Hearing's scheduled for 12th Jan at 10am. Will keep you informed!

 

Coco

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Stilll looking for excel help?

 

The formula to calculate days is as follows.

Use on column per set of dates. The formula is then column A - column B (or whatever columns you picked). Next, in the answer column (column C for argument sake), right click and pick format cell. enter dd (for days, only 2 of them).

 

This will count the day difference, however, this will only go to 31 (or 99 not 100% sure) so to get round that use the value statement.

 

So in theory:

 

=value(a-b)

 

failing that you could simply add another column. with = value(C1).

 

Hope it helps, haven't started faffing around with xl yet.

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I've posted off my court bundle - included a BBC press release from their Money Programme about the true costs to banks, which can be found on the BBC website and is v. useful. Got evidence from a barrister and former NatWest financial advisor that it neber costs a bank more than £4.50 to do any of the things they've charged all of us for.

Lloyds solicitors 14 day deadline for posting their papers to me is 29th, and they will leave it until then - they've got their timinngs to perfection! Court date is 12th.............. Happy New Year!!

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Can anyone advise me what to do next? I haven't received a court bundle from Lloyds solicitors and today was their deadline! The istructions state "The parties shall serve on each other and file at Court 14 days before the hearing date...." My court date is scheduled for 12th January, which is 14 days away. The County Court is closed now until the 2nd so I can't inform them that Lloyds haven't adhered to the correct procedure until then. How do I word it / what do I say? Should I contact Lloyds solicitors as well?

Help!

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