Natwest Claimform - current Account

[bazaar]

Just had a quick refresh of your thread, they say you applied for Premier account but have no documentation.

So you should be counterclaiming for this all the way back to 2002.

You do not recall signing anything to request this and as such have helped themselves to 17 quid or so per month.

They will argue that it was shown on statements, but there is no onus on you checking this.

So claim it back

[MAGDA]

Thanks bazaar, that's something else to look into that might give me a bit more ammo. Hoping that they won't come up with too much paperwork, as they said before that their computer system changed around 2002 and they don't have any of the old records now:)

 

regards, Magda

[bazaar]

HMM, so their old computer system didnt have a CD burner then? Or back up Tape facility, oh dear how very unprofessional and illegal of them.

Might be worth asking how they explain that to the authorities regarding money laundering laws, thats a real hot potato of a statement.

Keep that letter as evidence, in any defence you now provide for court, you should specifically request an answer on this, make sure you have a look at what they are supposed to be doing regarding documentation. They are on a very sticky wicket.

 

OK I have a thread for the reclaiming of Fees for Additions ( Barclays) but its pretty much the same thing as they have charged you. Feel free to use the letters. Put a claim in now.

Then it'll be part of a counterclaim also I think, but someone correct me if not.

[MAGDA]

Hi bazaar, thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated. Will have a look at your thread. I received a notice from the court today re: specific disclosure that I have asked for on my AQ. Have to attend a CMC/Allocation hearing in the New Year, so guess I will get a chance to ask for all the documents I need to see that Nwest hasn't provided so far.

 

What do you mean by fees for additions, is that the same as unlawful charges? I did check the unlawful charges (and interest on top of them) and that only comes to around £3-400 I think. They had slapped on over £7,000 worth of interest bringing the alleged debt to over £25k, but I luckily had received a letter from Nwest stating that they wouldn't charge any further interest (mistake I think) and they were forced to credit it all back. Going to go through the statements with a fine toothed comb and see if I can find any more though.

 

Many thanks. regards, Magda

[MAGDA]

Just wondering if anyone can offer any advice regarding my defence. I am hoping to also defend on the basis that Nwest caused me to exceed my authorised o/d limit when they paid two charge card debts which were due for payment. Although they apparently have the right to do this if it is stated in the t&c for the agreement, the point I hope to argue on is that firstly, I don't believe we ever signed any agreement for the charge card (although I believe it is at least partly regulated by the CCA, if not completely) - they just issued the card. So we were not aware of the conditions of use, etc, or charges for cash withdrawals, that kind of thing. Secondly, if they did issue an agreement at that time which we signed and they can provide this, was it in the prescribed form (re: the regulated part of it) and thirdly, to prove the amounts that were added on to the o/d we have requested full copy statements, but nothing provided as yet.

 

If any of the above turn out to be the case, i.e., no agreement/unenforceable agreement, can we then dispute the fact that this debt was added onto the overdraft at all in the first place.

 

Many thanks for any opinons. Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi, we have a hearing scheduled for New Year - CMC/Allocation hearing. We need (according to court) to submit an N244 to get the date changed as we will not be able to attend on the date given. Before submitting any application I contacted Shakespeare P to ask if theywould agree to the hearing being adjourned to another date (think if both sides agree it isn't necessary to pay a fee) and was told it was unlikely their client (Nwest) would agree and neither would the court (not true!) but they would speak to their client and get back to us. They haven't bothered since to provide a response at all, which is really helpful of them not to mention extremely rude. Still, what else would you expect. Well, if they later need to adjourn I can only say now that we will be equally as obliging. The other thing is Shakespeare also seem to think they will get our defence struck out at the hearing as they consider our defence without merit!

 

Magda

Edited December 10, 2009 by MAGDA

[fallen1]

Hi Magda, Just seeking help with my Natwest Overdraft debt. I have been with Natwest for over 30 yrs and held a gold account ( changed by them to Advantage premier about 6 yrs ago) Anyway this account when I joined the bank Gave a £10,000 O/D. In recent years I have Fallen on hard times and more recently struggled to make the payments. I have been out of work for 9mths and the O/D was risen to £14,140. The bank have Frozen/closed.

 

I have received a letter today from Triton credit services demanding I pay the amount in full within 72 yrs or contact there debt recovery office.

Failure to do so will result in this matter being passed to our solicitors who may commence one of the following--

 

Chargeing order/inhibition against your assets for the sum outstanding. This may result in our client being granted possession of your property.

 

OR

 

Attachment of earnings/wage arrestment.

 

I have lost my job, house and gone through a divorce. I have always paid my way but fallen on hard times. I did tell the bank this and yet I now get this.

 

I wish you well, any help would be appreciated

[MAGDA]

Hi Fallen, really sorry to hear about your current problems. I know it isn't easy, but try not to worry too much (easier said than done, I know). Natwest are very difficult to deal with at first, but you could write to them and explain that the maximum you can afford is £xxxx per month - even if it is just £1, with a view to increasing your offer as and when you can. They can either take this or leave it, entirely up to them, but hopefully they will accept, in the short term anyway. Make sure they agree to freeze the interest, if they don't, which is often the case with Nwest, the debt will of course increase dramatically and your payments are a waste of time. Point this out to them in your letter.

 

When you say they want you to settle the 'debt' with 72 years, I take it that is 72 days? That is obviously not going to happen. Where the charging order threat is concerned, that is a standard ploy to intimidate you and basically frighten you half to death into paying what you cannot afford and thus getting in even deeper. You say you have lost your house, so that threat doesn't carry any weight anyway with you, so just ignore that.

 

I was in exactly the same situation as you, although Nwest has yet to prove the debt they are claiming for, it seemed like our world had fallen in, but it will get better (even though we are now being taken to court:rolleyes:) In order to get an attachment of earnings, they would have to take you to court and be successful in obtaining a judgement against you, which is not guaranteed. Again, as you don't have a job at present that is an idle threat again.

 

You are actually in a good position in a funny sort of way because you don't have a property, no job and therefore, you will be of no interest to Nwest when it comes to taking you to court. They are assuming that your situation is unchanged (even though you have probably told them otherwise) and you still have assets that they can try to threaten you with.

 

Was the letter you received today, informing you that you need to pay the balance within 72 xxxx a Default Notice of some kind, or just a standard letter? How long exactly is it since you exceeded your authorised overdraft limit? One other question, when you first experienced problems, i.e., went over your o/d limit and couldn't make payments, how soon before they wrote and told you what you owed and the interest rate being charged, etc? In our case, we didn't receive anything in writing - no letter or DN, and Nwest have been unable to prove otherwise. You should also have been informed in writing at the outset, when the overdraft was first granted, of the details relating to it, including how to terminate the agreement. If not, the bank did not comply with the Determination required for overdrafts.

 

For now, I would contact the dept who sent the most recent letter and do as indicated above, make an offer for repayment, whilst not directly admitting the debt! Also mark your letter "without prejudice" (don't be bullied into offering more) and make sure interest is frozen, if it isn't don't waste your time with payments - there really isn't any point.

 

If you don't have a property, I don't think Nwest will be that keen to take you to court anyway, so hopefully you will manage to arrange something with them. Just remember, as someone stated on another thread recently, debtors prisons are a thing of the past! You've done nothing wrong, this happens to a lot of us, myself included.

 

Have you now sorted out a bank account with another bank so Natwest can't take your money? One other thing, how much of the O/D is made up of charges?

 

I will help as much as I can, just shout.

 

best regards, Magda

Edited January 21, 2010 by MAGDA

[fallen1]

Hi Magda,

 

Sorry for the late reply, many thanks for your kind words and support. Yes it was 72 hours! not years or days. The letter from Triton is the first I have had from them and it is headed FINAL NOTICE- DO NOT IGNORE.

 

I have kinda put the standard natwest demand letters to one side and tried to shout it off I guess as I did tell them that I was really struggling and was trying to make ends. I think it is foolish to ignore the bank but at the time I was finding it hard to accept my fate. I receive £64.00 per week job seekers allowance and I am trying to set up my own business again. I have received help from the different goverment schemes for new business ventures and hope to sign off asap. The thing that really gets me is the fact that I have always paid my way and the bank have done very nicely over the past 30 odd yrs with the business I did bring them, and now in my hour of need as such they just want to feed me to the vultures! I am a very postive person and hey ho they caught hang me I guess.

Thanks for your help and support.

I wish you all the best with your issues, but feel sure you have such a positive attitude that you will succeed.

 

Bye for now,

[fallen1]

ps

The letter does not state default notice just FINAL NOTICE- DO NOT IGNORE.

 

It starts of with my account details and then----

 

"despite previous correspondance a balance still remains outstanding on the above debt which we are collecting on behalf of the National westminster bank.

 

To avoid us recommending the national westminster bank plc to progress further recovery action within the next 72hrs you must

 

1. Pay the debt in full by sending your payment to the above address ( Tritons)

 

2. Contact our debt recovery officers on the telephone number quoted above.

 

Failure to do so will result in this matter being passed to our solicitors who may then commence one of the following actions--

 

1. Charging order/ inhibition against your assets for the sum outstanding. This may even result in our client being granted possession of your property.

 

2. Attachment of earnings/ wage arrestment. Your employers will be instructed by the court to deduct a set amount from salery/ wage to repay the balances outstanding.

 

You will be liable for the costs of legal action.

 

No further notices will be sent.

Yours sincerely. "

 

My agreed O/D was £10,000 that came with the account when it was up graded 20 yrs ago.

 

Hope this makes it a little clearer,

[MAGDA]

Hi Fallen, well to give you some breathing space, I would contact the bank "without prejudice" and offer them £1 pm, with a view to increasing if you can at a later date. Don't admit that you owe any specific amount. Point out to them that your current income is £xxx pw and you therefore have limited funds to live on. Also make sure they will freeze the interest. Are there significant charges on the account - that is something to look into, don't know if you have all of your statements, but if not you could send a SAR to Nwest in order to get them and work out the exact figure, plus interest they have charged on top. Emphasise to the bank that you do not have a property, and neither do you have a job.

 

This will give you some time to sort yourself out and see what you want to do further down the line. How long is it since you fell into problems with the O/D?

 

It must be very hard for you trying to manage on £64 pw, is there no other benefits that you might be entitled to? That's awful expecting someone to manage on that.

 

I really hope the business you hope to set up is a success and wish you all the best for the future - just remember, no matter how bleak it seems now, it will get better!

 

Best wishes, Magda

[bazaar]

Fallen, notice also that they say 'May" and their points about assets and wages obviously should not concern you too much.

This is a pretty bog standard threatogram, as Magda says, maybe try at dealing direct with Nasty west, admit nothing, have you tried to get statement of account etc, are there charges that they added or did they 'Upgrade' the account where they take a monthly fee? If they cant provide proof of signature you can claim this back.

[uptoeyeballs]

Hi Magda,

 

Just had a thought. I do now and again!

 

Looking at my NW situation they took the charge card from me without notice. They did not issue a default or termination, but applied the whole card amount to my current account exeeding my overdraft limit. (I think up to this point it is a similar situation to yours).

 

It seems to me that:

- The should not have debited the current account

- Charges and interest were applied to the current account that otherwise would not have been (quite significant at first glance)

- The regulated agreement (charge card) of some unknown state was terminated improperly

 

Doing some sums.....

 

uteb

[MAGDA]

Hi Magda,

 

Just had a thought. I do now and again!

 

Looking at my NW situation they took the charge card from me without notice. They did not issue a default or termination, but applied the whole card amount to my current account exeeding my overdraft limit. (I think up to this point it is a similar situation to yours).

 

It seems to me that:

- The should not have debited the current account

- Charges and interest were applied to the current account that otherwise would not have been (quite significant at first glance)

- The regulated agreement (charge card) of some unknown state was terminated improperly

 

Doing some sums.....

 

uteb

 

Hi uteb, that's interesting and does seem very similar to my own case.

 

Don't know if you have seen the posts made recently by vint on the main "Credit Agreement" thread, but he told me that one account should only be 'offset' against another, if that other account has a credit balance, whether it be a credit card, charge card, or whatever.

 

He posted up some info from the OFT confirming this.

 

Natwest made us severely overdrawn when they added the chargecard onto our overdraft, which was already £5000+ overdrawn (credit zone limit £7,500) causing us to exceed our limit.

 

Also as you mention, the chargecard agreement wasn't terminated, they just paid it off using the o/d and then withdrew the facility.

 

vint also posted up details of Nwest's business charge card, and the t&cs state that it can be set off against another account with a credit balance, so confirming what the OFT has said. I would think it must be the same for the personal banking charge card as well.

 

many thanks for your thoughts on this - keep thinking:) and let me know if you come up with anything else.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

uteb, did you actually get an 'agreement' when you first had the charge card. I don't remember getting anything, and although like you I've asked for a copy now, Nwest haven't provided anything.

 

Magda

[bradfordlad]

Hi Magda, just wondering how you got on with the Natwest case?

Good luck

BL

[MAGDA]

Hi BL, Nwest issued a claim against us:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/219554-help-nawest-taking-us.html

 

They have agreed to settle out of court though (they approached us) and knocked around 50% off their claim, so we are probably going to agree as we can pay by monthly instalments, so seems to be almost sorted now:)

 

Thanks for the good wishes,

 

Magda

[pumpytums]

Hi Magda,

any update?

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums