Fishman123 vs barclaycard ex MSDW

[noomill060]

Hi fishy,

 

When I got that letter from Lowell, that was the end of the matter.

 

Lowell are the absolute bottom feeding end of the line for Barclaycard and as far as I am aware- it ends here.

 

Its over. Forget about it- you're free.

 

Of course, you'll now want to stick the boot in and claim your charges and PPI back from Barclays...

Edited July 10, 2012 by noomill060

[fishman123]

This has now reared it's ugly head again, I received another response from Lowells yesterday, a recon CCA with a few old statements from BC giving me 14 days to consider my position and to come up with a reasonable proposal to settle the account.

 

The recon is a BC one, not a Morgan Stanley so is nothing like the original, does that have any bearing? Does the inclusion of some old statements have any significance?

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi,

 

Write to Lowells and say that you are requesting a copy of the original agreement and not a reconstituted copy which in any case cannot be a true copy as it is a reconstituted copy of a Barclaycard agreement and your original alleged agreement was with Morgan Stanley.

 

Refer them to the Waksman judgment in Carey v HSBC, paragraph 234 (4) which states that where an agreement has been varied then a copy of the original must be supplied. (Every time they change the interest rates they vary it.)

 

Then tell them that under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR 2008) they are obliged to let you know if they hold, or have ever held, an original agreement relating to this account, and that they are equally obliged to let you know if they hold so such account.

 

No, the inclusion of some old statements has no significance. They'll dig up anything they've got and try to convince you it's an agreement.

 

DD

[fishman123]

Thanks DD. They have had the recon from BC since February and sent it now, things are slowly getting better on the financial side of my life, do they know this and are now trying again?

 

Has there been any recents cases where recon agreements have held up in court?

 

if I am honest this latest letter has worried me as Lowells told me the account was closed after BC could not supply the CCA. I did consider and full and final before but after the account closed letter I did not see any need. As they might find it hard to enforce this would it be worth one now to finally put this to bed? If I put the offer in my next letter containing the points above from DD, would that harm my case?

[Desperate Daniella]

They have probably been checking your credit files and so they may know that things are getting better.

 

I'm not certain about your second question, but I would think that if recons have held up in Court it would be because someone didn't have the knowledge to fight, or they were unlucky with a judge.

 

The important thing is to make them know that you know your stuff.

 

If you offer a F&F you are admitting the debt. I really wouldn't do that, but of course it's your choice.

 

Send the letter I have suggested and see what they come back with before thinking about a F&F.

 

DD

[slick132]

Hi Fishy,

 

I doubt very much that anything happening now is the result of knowledge about your personal circumstances.

 

In any event, the production of a BC reconstructed agreement is hardly progress, when the a/c was originally opened with Morgan Stanley !!

 

Are they having a laugh !!??

[Desperate Daniella]

By the way, it's interesting that you hadn't heard from them for a year. I think they revisit all their old cases once a year and try it on again just in case your circumstances have changed or you have changed your mind about challenging them.

[Desperate Daniella]

You've got two years or so until it is statute barred. I'd hang on if I were you, but let's see what they say in response to the letter.

[fishman123]

If I am honest the letter did cause a little wobble. Thanks for the pointers DD, I will get the letter written and in the post this week, recorded delivery of course and let you know their response.

[Desperate Daniella]

BTW, the reason I thought they might have been checking your credit files, and I stand corrected by slick, is that other people on the forum have mentioned that DCAs - I think Lowells - have approached them again after a considerable length of time and their circumstances have in fact improved.

[fishman123]

That was my first thought DD, I have recently had a PPI payout and brought my mortgage up to date, also paid off my car and other small debts so my credit file would show this. One thing for sure, no more credit for me even when my file looks good. A hard lesson learned.

Edited June 9, 2013 by fishman123

[Desperate Daniella]

Me too. No more credit cards!

[fishman123]

Yep.

[noomill060]

I presume from your early comments that you have penalty charges on this account which can be reclaimed but I cant see that you have yet.

 

It might be worth recalculating the reclaimable interest on these charges to see if they now outweigh the debt.

 

(On the off chance that Lowells start a claim, you could simply respond with a counterclaim and blow them out of the water)

 

I waited until my debt was six months off SB- then hit them for the charges + 12 years of interest.

 

I now go to Tescos in a very fast, very rare, hand built classic sports car...

Edited June 12, 2013 by noomill060

[fishman123]

I have looked closer at the letter from Lowell and they have included t and c's from MSDW and BC, nothing else.

 

I have my response ready but are there any templates I can look at to compare my letter with?

[slick132]

Hi Fishy,

 

If all they've supplied are T&C from MSDW and BC, they have no more now than they did nearly a year ago - see post #24 above.

 

Have you followed our earlier advice and entered all penalty charges onto the compound interest spreadsheet using 24.9%.

 

If so, how does the total of charges and compound interest compare with the supposed a/c balance.

 

[fishman123]

Slick, I never sent the SAR for charges as I thought after Lowell closed the account better to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Will be getting my letter off tomorrow to Lowell.

[slick132]

Hi Fishy,

 

I think you should send BC a SAR to get details of all penalty charges added to the a/c.

 

Will be getting my letter off tomorrow to Lowell.

Do you mean the same letter that you sent me by PM the other day. If so, I'd hold off for now as that letter was not as good as it maybe could be.

 

What you could do is simply write to Lowells to say :-

 

1. You deny owing anything to BC or Lowells.

 

2. You dispute the debt because BC have still failed to send you anything other than Terms and Conditions.

 

3. BC confirmed they could not supply the credit agreement in the past. If this is still the case, then Lowells must confirm this.

 

4. Regardless of items 1, 2 and 3 above, you believe there may be numerous penalty charges included in the a/c balance making it inaccurate and not payable in part or in full.

 

[fishman123]

Well I now have a response, in a franked letter no less.

 

I told them this was still in dispute as I still have not received anything but Ts and Cs and that under CPUTR they are obliged to tell me if they do or do not hold the alleged agreement. I also mentioned that Carey v HSBC case, paragraph 234 (4) states that If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateralpower of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.

Their response is that they are debt purchasers and do not hold all documents in their offices.

They then say they have provided a recon and a sample statement. Again, all I have ever received from BC and Lowells are Ts and C's and the last 12 statements but they still state this is enough to satisfy my request and make this matter enforceable.

They then sat BC have supplied them with a true copy of the credit agreement that was signed in my name, so why the need to flannel about a recon and not supply me with a copy even though I mentioned CPUTR?

They then say the policies and procedures at BC would not have allowed me to have a credit facility without a signed agreement? The original card was a MSDW, what about their procedures?

I now have 14 days to supply them with details of my financial situation to prevent litigation.

I have no intention of giving them any information until they supply me what I have asked for. Can I just pick holes in their latest letter as a response or do I need a more measured reply?

[slick132]

Hi Fishy,

 

The response from Lowells is pretty rubbish.

 

The part about BC (or MSDW, even) not letting you have credit without a signed agreement is so lame !! Pure supposition on their part.

 

Without the necessary credit agreement, Lowells chances of successful litigation are limited and you would defend.

 

Personally, I would reply saying that, unless they supply a copy of the original credit agreement, they cannot seek enforcement of the debt and, if they do, you will defend vigorously.

 

It can be as simple as that for now.

 

[fishman123]

Thanks Slick.

 

I have asked them three times for the cca and still nothing. Their latest letter suggests they have it so should have sent a copy to me, if in fact they do not are they now pushing the boundaries of debt collection, even deception?

 

Good of them to supply the latest statements though, shows when the last payment was made and charges applied.

[slick132]

Sorry, I should also have suggested you put in the letter :-

 

As you say BC have supplied you with a true copy of the credit agreement, please supply me with a copy so I can verify the accuracy of the document and my signature.

 

[fishman123]

They have now supplied a copy of the original application form complete with my signature. I can make out my details but the photocopy is half an A4 sheet so all other writing is unreadable.

 

It is headed with CCA agreement regulated by the CC Act 1974.

[Desperate Daniella]

The MSDW application forms did not contain the prescribed terms. Can you remove all the personal bits and post it up. Could it be a cut and paste?

 

Out now, but back later.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

Also, see if all the numbers are in sequence. They have often missed out a couple.