Welcome Car Finance: Unsigned credit agreement.

[emmilou1]

Hi all, new to this

 

I would dearly like some advice from anyone who has experience with dealing with this sort of thing. My partner purchased a car on finance from welcome in june of 2006. Alarm bells started ringing when he got home and I checked out the credit agreement as he had agreed to pay an extra (huge) sum of money for PPI, shortfall extra Insurance and Mechanical breakdown insurance....however we were in desperate need of a car, no other company would touch us and the salesman told my partner that the insurances were compulsory...no insurances, no car so we grudgingly began to make payments month in, month out.

 

We have missed two payments with welcomes permission in the past 3 years due to high car repair costs. We are in our final year of payment.

 

The reason for our unease is that last month Welcome called us and asked us to pay the missing two payments along with our usual payment that month. This would have amounted to us paying over £900 in one month! We refused and since then Welcome have been ringing us up to three times a month, desperate to get their money, wanting to know down to the hour when the next months payment will be made and if we can pay it a few days earlier etc.

 

In annoyance I fished out the original credit agreement and noticed a couple interesting points.

• There are signature boxes, one for us which is signed by my partner and one for welcome to sign and date. Welcome have not signed or dated this agreement.
  
• There is another signature box which contains the names of the insurances and tick boxes and my partners signature. Underneath are the words: 'I understand that I am purchasing the products ticked above...' but my partner hasn't ticked any of them.
  

I have looked on the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and from my understanding of section 61 both parties, the lender and the creditor must sign the agreement. Does this mean the agreement is unenforcable?

 

I would appreciate any advice. I am able to scan the agreement if thats any help?

 

Thanks!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi emmilou1

Welcome to CAG,

As you have a scanner can you up load your copy of the agreement, after first removing personal information this will help the experts advise you on how best to proceed.

 

Andy

Edited July 25, 2009 by old_andrew2007
Spelling

[T2upNorth]

Subbing - I have the exact same situation...

 

I have SAR'd Welcome and will be starting a PPI reclaim, but given the recent Cattles/Welcome developments things could get interesting...

 

emmilou1, if you haven't already seen it you may want to check out the thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-finance/109794-welcome-finance-378.html#post2317564

 

Scroll back a page or 2 for some interesting developments...

 

T2

[emmilou1]

Thanks for the replies...trying to get the agreement on here using photobucket but it only seems to be displaying it as thumbnails? Any advice on getting pictures on here?

 

Many thanks

[postggj]

use the upload link on photo bucket for message boards with out the thumbnails option

[emmilou1]

deleted for privacy reasons

Edited August 28, 2009 by emmilou1
deleted!

[emmilou1]

ok think i've done it...thanks

[1984Dodge]

Im in same boat. Have been at a lost end over the way they have treated me since I came into financial dificulties last year. SAR out today also CCA recorded mail etc......

I will share more info when I hear from them. I have a copy of the original agreement that they gave me when I purchased car original. I lost original....DOH! .

I will have to wait and see what they come back with.

They are so crooked, surely their luck has to end soon.

 

Good luck.

p.s emmilou1 you should also Sar & Cca their ars$S they then have 40 days to comply. If not = statutory breach + account in dispute. Yo have the agreement.....Wait and see what they have!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[emmilou1]

Just an update...I have indeed sent out a CCA and SAR and i'm intending on trying to claim back the insurances they forced us to take

 

I will also post the outcome when they get back to me...fingers crossed!

 

Still really curious as to anyones opinion on the actual credit agreement... please take a look and let me know what you think.

 

Good luck 1984Dodge and anyone else in similar circumstances.

[emmilou1]

ok, the more I look at this agreement the more confused I get, perhaps someone can clarify something for me?

 

The option Fee (£100 in my agreement) is apparantly payable at the same time as the final monthly payment if I option to purchase the goods. So does that mean the last payment would be the normal payment amount plus £100?

 

My reason for asking is that from my understanding this £100 has already been worked into the loan? On my agreement:

 

Acceptance Fee: £150 S

Finance charges for goods: £3777.72 T

Option Fee: £100 U

 

Then it says the charge for credit for goods is S+T+U =£4027.72

 

So why is this option fee included in charge for credit? so confused

[postggj]

i thought i had mentioned this, must be another thread

 

ok, some good news

the 100 quid option to purchess fee is payable with the final payment.

this is where it gets interesting,

you may decide not to keep the car and for- go the 100 quid payment, so why are you paying interest on it.

 

that payment is then a charge for credit and a no no

 

another welcome con ime afraid but the good news is it invalidated the agreement but you need to send your complaint under the complaints dept to compliance in nottingham for there reply.

 

following this thread with interest and wondering what reply will come this time from mr p

[emmilou1]

Yeah I thought that didn't look quite right. Well i'm waiting for the CCA etc to come back from them and it looks like the next step is to query the option fee.

 

I would call up and speak to someone at head office but I tried that the other day. After going through countless automated options finally got through to ringing phone line which was picked up...then promptly hung up after I said I had a query. This happened 3 times.

I'm guessing Welcome have had numerous calls lately from disgruntled customers .

[emmilou1]

Just an update, sent off for my credit agreement, my PPI and mis-sold insurances refund request with my £1 fee...all registered post in the same envelope.

 

They recieved it and sent a letter thanking me for my request for credit agreement and the £1 blah blah.

Yesterday which was funnily enough the last of the 12+2 days for them to respond I recieved a phonecall requesting payment.

Politely told them I wasn't paying until I recieved my credit agreement at which point I was told my car was 'at risk'.

Today...still no credit agreement I get a second phonecall requesting payment, I tell them the same, no agreement, no payment. Welcome then told me they have a copy of the agreement at the office.

Okey dokey I say, send it out then.

Oh no, Welcome want to come to my house to give it to me personally! Um, no thanks I say just send it out, lol.

 

While they were on the phone I ask about my insurance claim refund. Have the insurances been cancelled? no.

Had they even recieved the letter at compliance? NO!

even though I sent it registered post!

 

I've given them the tracking number and they are apparantly going to get back to me.

 

What if they say they didn't recieve it? DO i need to send another one ?

 

Getting annoyed now.

[calshan]

I have just requested my CCA from welcome aas have noticed that my agreement is unsigned on one page by their rep also, have the same issue with option fee being included in the credit agreement.

 

If this invalidates the agreement, then i will take further action, however, will need advice on how to proceed, in the meantime, subscribing to your thread as you are in the same boat but a few weeks ahead of me!

 

Best of luck!

Calshan

[scarlettuk]

Me too! This is my second car with them. I never missed a payment until recently, even though the car was written off 3 weeks after I got it! I will do all this in detail in another thread, but long story short my copy of the agreement isn't signed by them either. I was forced to have PPI on the first one, and both were done within the last 4 years so I probably have a few things I can claim. If I send them a CCA request and SAR will they have to send details of both accounts?

[postggj]

scarlettuk

what do you mean that you are still making payments even though the car was written off

 

you would have had gap on the agreement or another name for it is shortfall

 

that would have paid the difference between what the insurance company paid and what was left outstanding on the agreement

 

please explain why this was not settled and what cock and bull welcome said not to pay out

[scarlettuk]

scarlettuk

what do you mean that you are still making payments even though the car was written off

 

you would have had gap on the agreement or another name for it is shortfall

 

that would have paid the difference between what the insurance company paid and what was left outstanding on the agreement

 

please explain why this was not settled and what cock and bull welcome said not to pay out

 

As it was near Christmas, when the week's free insurance ran out I could only afford to insure it TPFT initially... and that's what it had when it was written off, and according to Welcome (and i do recall seeing it somewhere else, also it wasn't expressly mentioned at the time) it had to be insured fully comp for the gap insurance to be valid. No matter how many times I called them to try and sort it I was never put through to the right department so I eventually spent the insurance money on another car from elsewhere and just carried on paying Welcome. I didn't see any paperwork on the gap and got to the point that I just couldn't be bothered trying to speak to them about it any more. I intend to sort that now though!!

[postggj]

I Do Get Fed Up With Welcome And There Bovine Excrament.

All These Micky Mouse Policies Are Welcome

 

I Take It Direct Group Addmin The Gap Insurance

No Surprise On That One

 

I Bet You Never Got It In Writing About The Gap

 

Do You Still Have The Gap Policy Doc With The T&c

 

I Would Love To See Where In The Gap T&c It States The Vehicle Has To Be Fully Comp To Pay Out,

 

Forget Welcome And What They Say On This, Pure Crap

 

its Whats In The Gap T&c That Count

[scarlettuk]

I dug out the original folder a couple of weeks ago with all the original paperwork in it, and there was no paperwork for the gap. The car was actually written off before the first payment was even due!! (Nothing to do with me... some fool drove into it while it was parked outside my house)

 

If what you're saying is correct, I might not have had to pay anything at all! When I send my SAR and CCA request, shouldn't they also provide details of all the insurances too? I also had some warranty on it too, which should have been refunded.

[postggj]

WELCOME WILL WASH THERE HANDS ON ANY REQUEST ON THE INSURANCE PRODUCTS

 

CONTACT THESE PEOPLE

 

Direct Group - Where Insurance and Innovation Combine - Home Page

 

ASK THEM TO SEND DETAILS ON WHAT THEY HAVE ON YOU YOU NEED

 

COPIES OF INSURANCE DOCSAND

T&C FOR THOSE DOCS

 

DONT TIP THEM OFF WHY YOU WANT THEM

 

AS A NORM THEY WILL SEND THEM OUT

IF NOT

SAR THEM

 

DONT TELL THEM WHY YOU WANT THE DOCS

 

IT HAS BEN KNOWN FOR WELCOME TO CHARGE FOR GAP AND NO POLICY EXSISTS

 

DONT MENTION THE GAP POLICY TO DIRECT GROUP

 

LET THEM CONFIRM IT OR NOT

[emmilou1]

Hi all,

 

recieved my credit agreement today, well 2 copies actually. One from compliance and one from our local office.

 

This copy has been signed my welcome (the one I have hasn't) the date of their signature is from 2 months after we got the car for a start.

 

Secondly, the box where my partner is supposed to tick what insurances he wants has been ticked, in my copy they are not ticked.

 

And last but by no means least..... the signature is not my partners and does not match the signatures on the credit agreement at all. It's just a badly forged attempt at his signature.

 

Also got a statement which I need a closer look at.... a few things that don't seem right on there too.

 

Any advice on if they allowed to forge your signature? surely this is absolutely illegal?

 

also no contact from them yet regarding my insurances refund complaint.

 

thanks in advance.

[emmilou1]

has anyone else had their sig forged when they requested the credit agreement? If so, what happened? How was it resolved?

[postggj]

hi emmilou1

 

i had this in my court case against welcome

 

it will cost anything up to 250 quid but well worth it

its worth its weight in gold

 

google

 

graphologist

 

i used one in london and they will do a report on the sigs etc

 

in my case

 

case closed

[emmilou1]

Thanks Postggj, Just another quick question for anyone who knows.....

 

How many credit agreements would we have signed?

Am I right in thinking we would have only signed 1 credit agreement, the original one that is in our possession, the one we signed when we collected the car.

Therefore the one we have in our possession would be the original and welcome would have photocopied this for their own records?

 

Just want to make absolutely sure that the credit agreement they have is a fake if anyone could confirm or correct me on this I would be grateful.

 

Thanks!