Orange/Arrow/Fredrickson

[MARTIN3030]

Will move your thread into the debt collection forum for more input and also for reference to others.

[aBitofaPickle]

Thanks for the move Martin.

 

Jetbags is there a standard letter to send to Fredrickson, I;m going to send the SAR to Orange today. I'm still a bit flummoxed by that as Fredrickson don't mention Orange at all in their communications.

[MARTIN3030]

If Freds are chasing you-then they have an obligation to send you details of what you are asking for.

If they are not in any position to supply it,then the account should be passed back to the original creditor.

[jetbags]

Thanks for the move Martin.

 

Jetbags is there a standard letter to send to Fredrickson, I;m going to send the SAR to Orange today. I'm still a bit flummoxed by that as Fredrickson don't mention Orange at all in their communications.

 

 

There are many different types of letter doing the rounds on this and other sites, all basically asking the same question, prove it or go away.

In your position I would be inclined to send an SAR to both Orange and Freds and see what comes back.

As i stated before check the documentation from Freds very carefully, if it looks strange in any way then you have more ammunition than you need to shoot them down.

 

Don't forget one very important fact that overides this whole issue, as the law states very clearly, it is the responsibility of the debt collection company to PROVE beyond doubt that there is a debt, if they fall short in any way then you have litterally nothing to worry about, ie unenforceable.

If that turns out to be the case then you can turn the tables on them and claim damages for Harassment, fraudulant collection, breach of CCA and Data protection and so on.

You may not think it but YOU are in a strong position, don't let them worry you, just take it one step at a time and get everything in writing.

 

Hope this helps.

Jetbags:)

Edited October 1, 2009 by MARTIN3030
inapp suggestion

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks for the move Martin.

 

Jetbags is there a standard letter to send to Fredrickson, I;m going to send the SAR to Orange today. I'm still a bit flummoxed by that as Fredrickson don't mention Orange at all in their communications.

 

 

It may well be that they are just using an account reference as opposed to the OC by name.See if you can reconcile any part of the reference number Freds are using-to your Orange account number.

[aBitofaPickle]

Just checked the letter from Freds, their client is Arrow Global, but the account reference is my old Orange account number.

 

I sent the SAR to Orange on Wednesday, yesterday I got a letter from Bryan Carter sols giving me 14 days to pay their client 'Arrow Global' or proceedings will be issued without further notice.

[MARTIN3030]

Bryan Carter ????????????

Ok am sending you a pm -we know that they monitor these threads and so for now will not give them any heads up.

[aBitofaPickle]

Did you send a PM, I didn't get it?

[MARTIN3030]

ok will do it now

[MARTIN3030]

Yes send ASAP-this is designed to be a pre action notice.

[jetbags]

UPDATE+++++

 

Ok as expected, received no less than 3 envelopes this morning, a little strange I thought so I was eager to see what was enclosed.

 

Envelope 1) A copy of the rubbish they had already sent me, which only confirmed that they had broken the law and were involved in fraud by trying to obtain money by menaces!

 

Envelope 2) Well this was the icing on the cake, a full and complete appology with a pathetic attempt at " we did not know" therefore were innocent....

The final line stating we will no longer be recovering this account.

What a total bunch of +~!^**

 

Envelope 3) Court papers attempting a stay of one month on all proceedings so that an agrrement can be found to settle the outstanding issues.

Outstanding issues meaning.... the illegal placement of default markers on my credit file when there was no debt to recover in the first place.

The illegal sharing of my information between them and two other parties when they had no right or authority to do so.

The continued enforcement of recovery methods even though the account was clearly in dispute and therefore excluded from enforcement.

 

Luckily I have a friend who is a practicing solicitor, here is where the real difference of opinion comesin, I was willing to let them off with a slapped wrist from the court and a little pocket money to help along the way. He however has advised suing them for up to £5k as it is clear they are backpeddaling fast and want an easy out.

 

Will have to think on this one, mind you it would make the pill easier to swallow if i could really hurt these parasites.

Will update further as it happens.....

 

Keep up the good fight everyone, we will win in the end !!!!

 

 

Jetbags:)

 

 

 

 

Update

 

Today was the day, the case was heard before the district judge and he immediately dismissed the case of Arrow Global/ Weightmans / Ever****s..

 

They did not even have the balls to attend and try to explain their behaviour to the judge, something he was none too pleased about.

After all the matters were discussed I was awarded costs and recompense for my time and trouble..... so there we have it, another nail in these low lifes coffin.

This site has proven invaluable for the knowledge it imparts and the way it endeavours to get a just result for everyone who's misfortune it is to be caught up with companies such as those previously mentioned.

 

That's 3 down now and just one last big one to go, I fully intend to take this one to the cleaners and gain some real satisfaction out of their suffering.

Lots of reading up to do on this one though, the paper trail is almost complete and battle is soon to commence.

 

Thanks again CAG

 

Jetbags

[aBitofaPickle]

I've received a reply from Orange it has an application form to fill in for SAR, is this necessary i already told them everything I wanted on the first letter. They've also asked me to enclose £10 but have not returned the cheque I sent off first time.

[buzby]

No it isn;t, but the firms like it to keep us all in check. Just ensure you provide the information they require and that as payment was made on XX/XX/XX they now have o ly XX days to provide you with the information.

 

Incidentally, for the money you pay, they provide everything - you cannot specify the parts you want.

[Tartan Barty]

Martin - trying to PM you but your box is full !!!!

[Human Writes]

No it isn;t, but the firms like it to keep us all in check. Just ensure you provide the information they require and that as payment was made on XX/XX/XX they now have o ly XX days to provide you with the information.

 

Incidentally, for the money you pay, they provide everything - you cannot specify the parts you want.

 

Actually they've got 40 days from receipt of the completed form, the form serves several purposes one of which is to ensure that the data subject identifies themselves to the satisfaction of the data controller.

 

You would do this by filling out the form, providing info to identify yourself, showing that you are the subject of the data and providing proof of ID if necessarry:

 

The ICO's legal guidance on the act says:

 

A data controller must comply with a subject access request promptly, in other words as quickly as he can, and in any event within forty days of receipt of the request or, if

 

later, within forty days of receipt of –

 

(a) the information required to satisfy himself as to the identity of the personmaking the request to enable him to locate the information which that person seeks; and

(b) the fee.

 

What they've done by sending the form is press reset on the 40 day period and pause on the SAR until they get the info they want from him.

 

As he's already paid the fee he just needs to send the form back.

 

Just because he's paid a tenner doesn't mean he has to ask for everything they hold either, if he wants everything he can ask for it all, on the other hand if he wants something in particular he should ask for it.

 

Asking a large company to send you everything they have on you can end with them sending you reams of paper that you neither want or need, which you then have to spend your time sorting through. It also delays a response as well as they've got to go searching through the large amounts of data they hold for everything they can find in relation to you.

[buzby]

You must like forms...?

 

Bt sending the letter and the fee 0 the 40 days starts. There is no requirement to send in the form they provided. The may like you to do so to keep things 'tidy' but it is neither a legal requirement, and if they expect you to pay the postage again - and reset the clock on the request, I'd say sending the form back would be foolish in the extreme.

 

Why on earth would anyone (a) add to their postal costs (b) give them a fresh compliance date and © bow to their requirement to have everything done on the 'proper' form?

 

As noted earlier - providing the information to identify you is there - there is NO NEED to leap through additional hurdles to satsfy their lust for admin.

[aBitofaPickle]

I've just gone to fill in the form and notice they've also asked for a copy of my passport or driving licence and a copy of a utility bill or credit card statement, showing my address. Ridiculous as this is the address they are writing to.

Can I ignore this and complain if i have not received the information in 40 days?

[buzby]

No - there are taking 'reasonable care' to ensure the data only goes to the actual data subject. The fact they are writing to the customers address is NOT enough. There are enough redirection scams out there to show it is so easy to get a Royal Mail Redirection started, they are only asking for additional proof - a utility bill is fine, you can also give them a list of dates of your last payments to the account and the amount.

 

I don't send out copies of passports or driving licences for security reasons.(Too much personal info) But a bill is fine.

[2Grumpy]

There are lots of threads around about the proof of identity for a SAR.

If you look on the information commissioner's website it tells you what is reasonable.

In your case, as it was sent from the address that you used with them for some time, the requirement should be minimal.

The requirements on their form would be their maximum if you had moved since they last contacted you. They like to get that from everybody because then they don't have to think about it.

You don't have to complete their form.

They didn't return your tenner, I would take that as an indication that they are getting on with it.

 

You could reply reminding them of the information commissioner's guidance on identity: that they don't require any from people writing from the address that they have used for some time and that you presume that since they didn't return your cheque that they will be supplying the information within the 40 days.

 

I don't see any reason not to sign this, in fact they often ask for a signature. If they refuse, you could offer to show your driving licence / passport when you pick up the SAR at your local orange shop

[2Grumpy]

No - there are taking 'reasonable care' to ensure the data only goes to the actual data subject. The fact they are writing to the customers address is NOT enough. There are enough redirection scams out there to show it is so easy to get a Royal Mail Redirection started, they are only asking for additional proof - a utility bill is fine, you can also give them a list of dates of your last payments to the account and the amount.

 

I don't send out copies of passports or driving licences for security reasons.(Too much personal info) But a bill is fine.

 

But maybe not a phone bill in case they pass on the number

 

That wouldn't prove that a redirection [problem] wasn't under way though. It just shows what a waste of time their requirement is

 

I wonder if they would accept an Orange bill?

[2Grumpy]

For Arrow to start proceedings against you in their own name, there must be a Notice of Assignment

They should provide information in the SAR - a good reason to ask for everything, not just statements

[aBitofaPickle]

I received a cheeky little missive from BC today.

 

"We do not believe you are entitled to or need all of the documents you requested in order to file a Defence to a claim.

 

We look forward to hearing from you with your proposal for payment"

 

Should I/ how do I respond to this?

[bsj]

Subbing with interest.My OH is having the same battle.And now they are ringing him on his work number.

The debt is SB'd.

[aBitofaPickle]

Can anyone shed any light on the response to the solicitor.

[buzby]

They are not required to supply any documents that help prove your case UNLESS they also plan to use them, in which case, you will be supplied woth them as part of the evidentiary package.