An all in one post re debt and collection agencies etc.

[IdaInFife]

if tey send a fullfilled response then it is no longer in dipsute

 

 

if you can scan and delete any personal info on the alleged cca and post uphee for folks to look at

 

ida x

[Deb T]

Hi there, it's contained in this thread...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/219381-default-notice-time.html

[Deb T]

I've posted these before but now need to write back to the DCA re their now requesting all of the money owed to the OC .

 

What do I need to do? The CCA appears unenforceable and their are no real prescribed terms in it...what you see is what I got, I tend to think there should be more info on the credit agreement etc?

 

Also, I have made a subject access request to the original creditor and will make one of the dca...but the template does not suit, is there another one available?

 

http://www.partnerpick.com/userspace/user3727/egg/arcegg2sav.jpg[/url]

http://www.partnerpick.com/userspace/user3727/egg/arcegg1sav.jpg

[vint1954]

The prescribed terms are on page 1. APR, credit limit reference and repayments.

 

This looks enforcable to me, but they would need pages 1 & 2 as one document to be able to go to court with it.

[Deb T]

The problem I have with it is that I have a different document, the original green one and which was issued on the same day. But the reverse dates does not tally with the one I have as in the signed dates. and of course the 'approved' limit issue currently being explored by pt on what I think is a current test case.

[Deb T]

Just some friendly advice and TIPs on how to keep your debt management flowing in a reasonable manner.

 

I have a file on a USB drive called 'debt'

 

Each Creditor and the collection agents have their own directory.

 

Every letter I send, I copy it into the relevant DCA/Creditor directory.

 

Each Subject Access and CCA i request also gets copied into the relevant

directory.

 

Each Letter sent is date stamped and it's reference included in the title such as 'cca request 17th June Cabot'

 

I also keep a file in each and every directory called 'Timeline Correspondence . What I do in this file is write down the title of each letter sent and when it was sent and I write it in bold black...each reply sent to me from the dca/creditor I reference when it was sent and a brief summary of it's contents and I write it in red and in italic.

 

I keep a further file in each directory for records of my recorded delivery letters sent and details of the postal order and proof of delivery receipts from the Royal Mail Website.

 

Any interesting/relevant links from CAG i save the url and add it to the relevant directory.

 

Also included is an address file for the relevant correspondence addresses from CCA's or SARS' - These are updated as and when due to some Creditors switching addresses etc....

 

I've also put a copy of my credit file into each directory and highlighted the one that is relevant to the directory.

 

I have futher directory for CAG and held within it is the various boards for various creditors such as EGG/ Sainsburys/Hillseden etc etc.

 

Any court info or legal documentation that I think may be relevant to me at some point in the near future is saved in a directory called legaledge.

 

Finally, I back the file up each and every day, I keep a hard copy on my non internet pc and also on the USB drive. Each time I create a back up I log the date of the back up and include it in the route directory.

 

I password protect both the zip and the non internet pc.

 

I also have paper folders for each of the Creditors/dca'a etc and add to thse when correspondence comes in or when I've sent something out to the creditors/dca's/cra's Each folder at the front has an inventory similar to the timeline held on the USB.

 

I purchased 100 second class stamps, have a roll of recorded delivery slips from the post office and some cheap envelopes from a stationers.

 

I realise this when first read may seem a bit convuluted/drawn out but actually it's altogether the opposite, as soon something needs dealing with I am able to target the directory/file and what I need in just a few seconds and can deal with accordingly. I now find myself much less bogged down by details and have found that dealing with something almost as soon as it needs dealing with frees up a lot of my time.

 

Just me ten 'penneth

[supasnooper]

And a good ten 'penneth it is

[Deb T]

etc etc....

 

I found this one for the UK which has been quite helpful when trying to pin down the days/service of a default notice and the relevant holidays that sometimes crop up inbetween the dates etc...

 

Calendar 2009 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

Calendar 2008 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

Calendar 2007 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

Calendar 2006 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

Calendar 2005 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

Calendar 2004 with UK Bank Holidays - TheBigProject.co.uk

[Deb T]

/rant on

 

and only a mini-rant at that.

 

Sent off three SARS requests to three Original Creditors...

 

Here were are 60 days post SARS request, all postal orders have been cashed, one 0C sent a copy of their terms and conditions, one hasn't responded at all and one has written acknowledging my request and that

I would receive the information requested within the alloted time.

 

All three are over the 40 days. Cashing a postal order that was specifically marked as a SARS request and then not sending anything (yet) is not clever.

 

But then you're stuck with the ''shall I prod them or shall I leave alone' all three have had a cca request made, two via their collection agents and one via the original OC, the only thing produced was a copy of their terms and conditions.

 

CCA requests prove validity or at least should help establish, but when these agents and OC's do not comply with simple statutory requests, some under the data protection act it first makes a mockery of the data protection act request and at the same time where CCA's are concerned it makes you realise that a lot of these DCA's trade/profit on their ignorance to the people they're seeking money from.

 

When we're late with a payment an automated threatogram is dispatched 24hrs later and we're expected to listen, make good the error and pledge are allegiance to the DCA/OC

 

Well, they can feck off, I've been down the diplomatic root, I've maintained payments whilst trying to gain information they hold on me and still they haven't complied. I'm waiting until the next threatograms come in from these three outstanding SARS/CCA' people and at that point all copies of my correspondence to them and theirs to me will be neatly bundled up, copied 6 or seven times and sent each and everytime the fill is updated to the CEO of the Original Creditor, My local MP, the OFT, the DCA, and a national paper...and I'll keep on doing it until they're sick to the teeth of my correspondence.

 

Eventually somebody will listen.

 

/rant off

[Pinky69]

Don't forget the Information Commissioner. Not respondig to a SAR is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

[Deb T]

Ha! have a reputation slap to the back.... had forgotten about them...oh yes, they're on the list.

[Pinky69]

Thank you.

[Deb T]

Have made several SAR's requests, all are considerably over the initial 40days...

 

However, I have had one delivered today.

 

Nice bundle, contains most of the statements since the original commencment in the late 90's

 

But, there is no credit agreement, no default notice even though my account was defaulted 4 years+ ago by the OC, no termination letter, no assignment noices, in fact no correspondence letters from them whatsoever, I have some of my own that they sent me 4 years ago but there are none of these contained in the Sars either, no copies of any letters I sent to them when I originally went tits up and couldn't maintain the payments.

 

The account has most likely not been sold which would mean no assignment notice....but no credit agreement or default notices etc?

 

I wrote to them 4 years ago stating I was unable to maintain payments to them, for 4 months after that they continued to apply interest and late charges...and then onto a well known solicitors that started sending out rubbish.

 

I've maintained a payment with a DCA for this alleged debt and my balance in the SARS with the OC reflects this...

 

However, is the SARS a full copy of what the OC should have on me? If this is the case and they've not produced a credit agreement or any default notices then what is the next step? Or will they have more?

 

Surely a SARS should produce a credit agreement?

[Huff&Puff]

Yes it absolutely should. Send the "in dispute" letter and stop paying them.

[Deb T]

I've sent a dispute letter previous to the DCA doing the collecting as a CCA request to thrm came back with nothing more than a copy of terms and conditions, no signtures of mine, no nothing in fact. Sent the dispute letter to them, they're maintaining they've sent what is needed and because I've been paying them for the last few years (the dca) then thats enough for them. Needless to say the DCA won't be getting anything more...but the SARS with the OC has suprised me by the lack of anything of substance....

[silverfox1961]

I have questioned Cap1 about default notices and other stuff and they state that they don't keep copies of generic letters such as the default notice, termination letter and notice of assignment but they should have sent you copies of screenshots showing account activity. If they have, there should be a code sheet to help you work out what they mean but if they haven't, you should let them know.

 

fox

[Deb T]

What of the original credit agreement though?

 

There are codes, I've been working my way through them, how bizarre that a lender does not keep correspondence pertinent to the alleged debt or maintainenance of said debt etc.

 

I can see some of what has been said and records of calls made to them etc. But no letters from them to me or at least no copies of them and crucially no credit agreement.

[Deb T]

None of their 'codes/abbrevations' contain or make mention of a default notice or credit agreement or temination. There are abbrv's with reference to them updating the CRA's but this doesn't correspond with the dates showing on my CRA's etc

[silverfox1961]

Morning,

They should have enclosed a copy of your agreement. They probably don't have it.

If the screenshots show nothing about DN's &TN's, why not write and see if they will point you to the relevant bits (if the are there) as the codes are very confusing.

[Deb T]

Just to recap on this..

 

Sent a SARS request to an OC, this particular OC has replied with a SARS but there is nothing other than statements from 1998 up to about 2003, no credit agreement, no default notice/termination (not even sure they have defaulted me as it's not showing on my credit file with at least one CRA, not checked the others)

 

I've got the dca attempting to chase me even though all they supplied via my CCA request to them was a copy of terms and condtions but nothing by way of times/dates/sigantures from me ..I've written back to them stating that I don't consider it a true copy and that in the absence of my signature on a credit agreement that I consider the account in dispute and no further payments will be made......they of course are sending back 'pay us cos you've been paying which is evidence enough to suggest you owe the money....pah!

 

But back to the OC, I've been through the abbreviations, I can't see anything at all re the original credit agreement and the screenshots which I've just about been able to decipher are all post original default, nothing before other than original statements.

 

I thought a SARs was ALL info they have on you, if this is the case and in the absence of any credit agreement what would be the next step other than to put them on notice that I don't see any CCA so no further payment will be forthcoming.

[diddydicky]

im sorry but there is no requirement for them to send you a copy of your credit agreement

 

the SAR is a request for INFORMATION that they hold on or about you and they may transmit that information to you in any form they wish which does NOT include the original documents that the information is contained on or in

 

many do, some dont but you have no legal right to the cca via a SAR

 

sorry but thats the reality

 

you need to s78 them and THEN you can put the matter in dispute if they fail to send you a true copy of the executed CCA

[Deb T]

im sorry but there is no requirement for them to send you a copy of your credit agreement

 

the SAR is a request for INFORMATION that they hold on or about you and they may transmit that information to you in any form they wish which does NOT include the original documents that the information is contained on or in

 

 

How is that correct? The data protection act allows me to apply for ALL information that a group/body hold on me, ALL includes the credit agreement and any other such niceties that they as the Original Creditor hold?, it may not be a valid request under the conumer credit act but it is under the data protection act surely?

[diddydicky]

they are obliged to provide information they hold about you!

 

what information is in the credit agreement apart from your name address dob etc that you want them to provide to you- most of the content of the cca is their own copyright.

 

Please don't shoot the messenger- i'm just trying to stop people making a chump of themselves by demanding what they are not entitled to!!

[Deb T]

Don't be so sensitive, I'm attempting to understand what I can and cannot ask and what I should and should not expect from a Sars.

 

You're not consistent, here you're suggesting somebody make a SARS for a default notice

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2621018.html

 

and yet in this thread you're saying that there is no requirement for an OC to send copies of a credit agreement.

 

Neither do I hold with your pov that most of the content of the cca is their own copyright? most of the consumer credit act is an OC's own? what a ridiculous assumption that is...

 

If my signature/d.o.b and particulars of my employmen/salary are contained on the original application form then that is information that they hold on me and under the data protection act I am entitled to request sight of it, there are no copyright issues involved, there may be third party issues with some of the documentation such as letters to and from a DCA that without the third parties agreeemnt I may not be able to request unless sending them also a Sars and and I accept that.

 

There is probably more copyright information on a credit card statement than there is on a CCA agreement and other than my name on a statement there is no information contained that they hold on me in the statement and yet they send me reams of them....1997 is actually the first statement sent

 

Should have them updated on the thread for banks that keep details longer than 6 years...

[silverfox1961]

they are obliged to provide information they hold about you!

 

what information is in the credit agreement apart from your name address dob etc that you want them to provide to you- most of the content of the cca is their own copyright.

 

Please don't shoot the messenger- i'm just trying to stop people making a chump of themselves by demanding what they are not entitled to!!

 

 

I don't normally disagree with you on this but I do on this one.

 

According to the (discredited) CSA a SAR should bring back ANY data they hold. I Capitalised any rather than ALL because they can't supply all data as some is commercially sensitive however, I am of the opinion that an agreement does contain personal data and as such they should supply it. They have a duty to supply the account history and surely an agreement is part of that history.

That's how I see it anyway

 

fox