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Loss of employment, £50k plus in recent debt, help needed to plan the future


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Good morning CAG team,

 

Firstly, want to start by saying what a fantastic resource and collection of knowledgeable people you guys have created here. You guys helped me around 2008 to reclaim my bank charges and since then I have been on top of my finances.

 

I had debt issues as a youngster (now 40) due to lenders pretty much throwing money at people back then without any concern as to whether it could be repaid, I managed to get myself out of that debt by repaying it and have since maintained a fantastic (900+) credit score.

 

As much as having the great credit score is a good thing, it comes with it's own risks (ability to borrow ludicrous amounts of money) and I've fallen foul these last 24 months to a point where I am now desperately concerned about my situation, made worse by being served my notice in my current employment.

 

During 2018 I started to run up my debt as I borrowed to help friends and also my Mum having health issues that were not being cured but simply managed by the NHS, I forked out for multiple private sessions hoping to get her some relief, all with a view of repaying as I had always done, I've always paid my debts since leaving school. This borrowing continued into 2019 with house repairs, car issues and on and on, wife gaps in employment etc.

 

The debt has been affordable for me upto now as I've a reasonably well paid job, however that has now come to an end and I leave that employment in 3 months time. With only 3 paycheques remaining and no jobs that will match the salary available. I find myself in a very stressful situation of needing to plan ahead and I need your guys' assistance for this.

 

None of my accounts are in default nor had any missed payments on my credit file, all debts were taken after the start of 2018.

 

I have 3 loans:

Tesco Bank £8600 remaining

MBNA £4350 remaining

Halifax (my current bank account provider) £13,000 remaining

 

I have 5 credit cards with remaining balances:

Tesco Bank £8750

M&S Bank £9100

MBNA £11000

Virgin £4000

Halifax £2800

 

This is a ludicrous amount of debt and I'm disappointed I didn't see this earlier, as although it was affordable on the salary I have been earning, it is not affordable on a market rate salary for my trade and given recent organisational changes at work, I will no longer be gainfully employed.

 

I have seen some quotes for secured loans and additional mortgage with my current lender (a dual mortgage that runs in parallel over 25 years) to cover the debts, all of which are extremely expensive and leave me potentially vulnerable to losing our family home in the future if for any reason we are unable to pay, which given our mental health and children's age, is not an option we wish to pursue.

 

I need help on how best to approach these debts and welcome your advice. Part of me wants to default all of them due to the amounts however I'm not sure where this would lead long term, we live in our own home with a mortgage and equity in the home would just about clear these debts if we were forced to sell however that is a last resort for us.

 

I feel unclean and disappointed I am at this point given my age and wish for this to go away as quickly as possible while maintaining some dignity.

 

I appreciate I've typed alot and hope you guys are willing to discuss this with me as to my options on minimizing the impact I expect over the coming 12 months (due to loss of employment) and potentially to write off anything I can through defaulting/F&F offers etc.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

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well the 1st thing you need to do is protect where the money you presently have and will get goes too.

pers, i'd advise and plan for the worst from day one.

 

get a parachute account opened which is not linked through group ownership to anyone you currently have credit or a mortgage with. then transfer out the actual money you have in your current bank to there AND DO NOT set up any DD's bar p'haps your priority debts like rent/mortgage, gas, electric, CTAX etc against that parachute account.

 

it is an extremely bad idea to ever think of turning unsecured consumer credit debt into a secured one so throw your thoughts of a 2nd mortgage or a secured loan out the window.

 

i've moved you to the debt self help forum, there are numerous stories here for you to read, though most, regarding say things like CCA requests, won't be relevant because your debts are all very recent.

 

go look in the debt collection section of our library from the pro rata letter and use that route to manage your debts under a small repayment amount plan each going forward.

 

lastly and linked back to my initial thoughts. i agree with your action of getting every debt defaulted and marked as such on your file ASAP, that way in 6yrs things will start to look up in terms of credit. that might well take 3-4 of paying nothing until each does issue a default notice and carry their threat out. for now on all consumer credit debt, just cancel all DD's and use the months until DN to get things in order regarding pro rata.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If I  had the spare cash, I might have bet dx wouldn't be long before replying :) thank you, straight to the point as always!

 

I've spent many hours reading on this site. Yours and others previous replies have absolutely answered what I need to do next, the content on here is like no other site. I guess for my own experience/therapy and to maybe help other's in the future like me; I would create my own thread and as we've both mentioned, the age and size of my debts differs from most other postings.

 

A few questions I haven't found answers to quite yet:

- as my debts are fairly new and alot of them over £10k, can I expect any special treatment in terms of them hunting me down or wanting to take it to court straight away?

-is there a possibility they could seek to force me to sell our home?

-given the amounts owed, whats actually the worst that can happen from here? I understand they aren't criminal but I'd like to know worse case in your guys' experience.

 

I was very weary of securing further debt against the house, I'm pleased I didn't and that the consensus is I shouldn't - I definitely won't!

 

I will go ahead and read up the section you mentioned and update this thread on how it goes should I not get employment. Thanks again

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Agree with everything so far, certainly do not secure anything against your property

 

Firstly forget the unclean and disappointed, it's not like you owe the money to your best mate. To your Creditors you are just a number on a spreadsheet. 

 

Worst case scenario? Default on everything, and get a barrage of letters from mainly powerless DCA's (Debt Collection Agencies). Maybe nothing will happen, maybe at some point in the next 6 years you might get a Claim form to try and take you to court. We can advise you with that here if it does.

 

What would I do? As someone who's been through this mess. Get your calculator out and work out your essential expenses. Work out what you have left over to offer the cards and loans etc, offer them a token amount and ask them to freeze interest until you find another job.  It may be that because of the pandemic they will offer you a payment holiday anyway. 

 

If you are really worried you can still ask your mortgage company for a six month payment holiday also, I did it, and it really helped me get back on track after losing my job.

 

Mortgage, Council Tax, Food etc so you know what you need to live on.

 

Get rid of any expensive cars, spend a grand on an old Focus or Corolla

Get rid of any expensive mobiles, Buy a cheap PAYG on a second hand phone

 

 

Start looking for another job now, even if it's half the salary. Try and recover money from any friends you have 'helped'

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Thank you London for your insight.

 

I guess most people when in this situation wish to pay nothing.. I certainly am near that point as its either 6 years of repaying debt, or 6 years bad credit. Of course the morally correct would be to repay and I've no one else to blame but myself.

 

Having read many stories across the web, I guess I'd like to enter into token payments, rebutting reviews where possible with a view to pay off once they start talking about F&F settlements, however I wasn't sure on the journey to get there given the amount owed and my equity in my home. Whether due to the amounts they would keep them open forever while paying token payments and hence even things like statue barring timer would never start.

 

The question is to taken payment and hope for settlement discussions in the years to come or not pay anything at all hoping they sell the debt where settlement is easier with DCA's...? thoughts on this please?

 

I guess they can never use FORCE and that gives me some sense of security and ultimately is all I care about - is my home safe, are my kids fed and happy, can we afford our priority bills and forget everything else.

 

Car is a banger :)

Have a bike worth £3k which will absolutely be sold soon

Friends - Yeh, I'm too generous I guess, I didn't specify a lending agreement but I know they will give me some return in the future when it looks better for them, they are aware of my situation and I will be asking for the return favors.

 

If I may ask London - you say you've been here before.. to the same amount of debt as me? how did your token payment journey go? did they eventually settle with you or did you get employed and repay in full? finally, anything you would do differently looking back that I can learn from?

 

Thanks

 

Parachute account created, awaiting details and will get my wages paid into there for the next 3 months.

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Firstly, you will find another job! You can probably ask for a payment holiday , due to Covid. This will buy you 3 to 6 months time without any worries or credit file problems
 

In fact you have 3 months and you might find another job within that time and all this will be moot.

 

I had far, far more debt than you, nothing particularly bad happened, I ended up with a few CCJ’s but that was my own fault. I didn’t defend them. Around 70k of it went Statute barred years ago.

 

Nobody repo’d anything. You are in a far better situation than you think. Concentrate on your essential expenses!

We could do with some help from you.

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Agree, I am absolutely employable even if not in my trade of choice - thanks for the encouragement.

 

Interesting, appreciate you elaborating a little there.

 

Ultimately, as mentioned above, provided no one can and force a sale of my house, then I'm game for anything, paying it off preferred although defaulting and not paying another penny also sounds attractive naturally. Given how fraudulent the industry is I do not have a moral issue with not paying the debt and I can afford 6 years bad credit.

 

1 - Parachute account, DONE

2 - Update employer pay details, PENDING

3 - Cancel all DD for consumer debt, DONE

4 - Decide whether to token payment (perhaps worthwhile even if just initially), PENDING

5 - If yes to above, send Pro Rata payment letter from the library, update if/when circumstances change

6 - Get a good credit score again in the future but never borrow again like I have, ONGOING LIFE NOTE

 

I can't thank you enough guys and I will certainly donate to the site at my next opportunity

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Hey why not ring up each of your lenders and ask if they will give a payment holiday due to losing your job because of Covid. See what they say? If it affects your credit file etc.

 

That’s what I’d do! 

We could do with some help from you.

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Yep, you're right. Funny how it's the most simple things we miss when looking to our own advice - I would have told a friend to do exactly that! yet here I am, having to be told... Funny ol' world

 

Thanks again London, it's quite the list but I can certainly get through them all before the week is out, then at least I'm more informed. What's the worse they could say right? change is afoot either way (they don't need to know that yet though) but asking questions shouldn't show my hand.

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No worries about showing your hand. I went for a mortgage holiday for 6 months. Not only did it not go on my credit file but I managed to get onto a lower interest rate afterwards so my payments actually went down. 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 5 months later...

Thank you HB.

 

Apologies for the lack of updates.

 

I wanted to update the thread today with the latest progress and where I am at currently with all these accounts to hopefully help other people in the future.

 

Ok here goes:

 

I decided to allow all the accounts to go into a default state, with the exception of the debt owed to my current bank as I wanted to continue using it temporarily for mortgage payments etc before I could get my parachute account in order, I have now stopped payments to them too.

 

I have 3 loans:

Tesco Bank £8600 remaining - Default notice received 29/09 with a request to pay in full

MBNA £4350 remaining - Default notice received 28/09 and credit agreement ended, requested to pay in full

Halifax (my current bank account provider) £13,000 remaining - Only missed one payment as of sept due to my commented above reason.

 

I have 5 credit cards with remaining balances:

Tesco Bank £8750 - Default notice received 10/09, still offering repayment options after clearing arrears

M&S Bank £9100 - Default notice received 29/09, still offering repayment options after clearing arrears

MBNA £11000 - Letter threatening default notice and ending the credit agreement but they are still requesting payment of arrears as of today

Virgin £4000 - Still chasing arrears, nott default notice yet

Halifax £2800 - Only missed one payment as of sept due to my commented above reason.

 

So, there has been movement across all my accounts in the 'right' direction. My mortgage company would not give a holiday due it 'not being part of my product' - I actually found this quite disturbing.. they stated that all missed payments would be treated as such and there was no other options. Even if I submit to an income and expenditure with reduced payments, all would be treated as missed payments where a full month payment isn't covered!, disgraceful in my opinion but hey, who am I to moan.

 

For all those reading and wondering why I took it in this direction - I want to pay these debts, but I also would like to pay them in full at a reduced rate due to size of them, I know that sometimes OC's are quick(ish) to sell the debt onto a DCA where I feel I would be better placed for a reduced settlement. I knew I would get re-employed and if I could postpone the payments and save the money, I would then have the ability to actually pay some off 'in full' at a reduced rate where possible.

 

I guess a question I have for you gurus of CAG is, for the now defaulted accounts, is it time to suggest a token payment plan? I don't want to pay more than I have to, regardless of my current salary because I want them to realize the debt wont get cleared with  token payments and suggest a reduced settlement, is this sound logic? it seems that trying to clear these debts now they are defaulted would be a waste of time and money as either way, they should now drop off in 6 years, or go further with court in which case I deal with those on an individual basis.. any criticism or advice very much welcome.

 

On a positive note, I start new employment on Monday and as I say above, I will be saving as much as possible for the time when they might accept a reduced settlement. I will not be paying them anymore than minimum even though I could maybe afford it because the damage is done now.

 

Thanks in advance

 

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I personally would hold off with any token payments to the OCs as this will only prolong the statute of limitations and delay any possible assignment to a DCA. Wait for 6 months and see what transpires and what the OCs position they may take.

 

Keep all your Default Notices and correspondence safe in separate files.

 

Andy

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Also keep a check on your credit files and take note when the default marker is placed and what date. Possibly take screen shots and file in the relevant files.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy, I was reading a thread earlier with your comments in regarding this very type of situation and amounts, saving the letters in seperate envelopes is something I should have done 6 months ago! naturally they've each sent me in excess of 10 letters each which sits in one folder - I will do this right now.

 

I did think that after default notice then the statue of limitations started and wouldn't be affected, so that must be only once the debt is assigned to another outside company? but with DCA's am I right in thinking the same applies? any acknowledgement or payment made towards resets the SOL 6 year counter?

 

I am very confident of being able to deal with DCA's for smaller amounts having assisted friends in the past with them and wish all my OC's to sell the debt sooner rather than later at which point I'd hope to settle for say 30% of the original amount.

 

My credit file is now trashed :) but yes I will keep a record of those dates.

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The issuance of the default notice is no longer the start or cause of action...only once its been recorded on your credit files the clock starts...of course this may happen 3 6 9 12 months or even years later or when the creditor feels like it...but that's how the judges now deem the SOL.

 

Assignment has no bearing on the statue of Limitations....its from when the default notice is placed on your file.

We could do with some help from you.

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1 minute ago, Andyorch said:

Assignment has no bearing on the statue of Limitations....its from when the default notice is placed on your file.

 

Interesting.. things must have changed since I learned of the Statue of Limitation years and years ago, I guess it helps to stay abreast.

 

My current account with Halifax now has a maxxed (4k) Overdraft, they are applying daily interest which is now taking the account into unarranged OD territory - How best to deal with this? I won't be using that account again and will apply the same processes as with all other consumer credit however having never dealt with OD before I'm unsure what to do.. I guess they won't 'close' the account until the OD is cleared but that means accruing further debt until.... I don't know when.. should I make contact and make it clear I won't be paying them or will they eventually get the message and close/default my current account with OD?

 

I'm mortified to learn that one of my OC's (MBNA) is part of the banking group I set up my parachute account with.. I tried to pick one that wasn't but I must have missed it given the amount of OC's I have -  what impact will this have given I want to receive my salary into that account..

 

Thanks again for answering my questions, I don't think I have any more other than the few above, for now.

 

Cheers

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I'll try to keep this thread updated with default notices against accounts ON MY CREDIT FILE:

 

First one!

 

Tesco Bank loan - Default Date on credit file 21/09

 

Also, I didn't realize a credit score could be 0!! My credit score was 980 at the start of 2020, and since stopping payments this is the drop-off, as you can see, October is definitely the month of real movement:

 

707April
697May
621June
473July
445August
409September
0October
 
 
Edited by Badtimes123
stating its a credit file default notice

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Quote

My current account with Halifax now has a maxxed (4k) Overdraft, they are applying daily interest which is now taking the account into unarranged OD territory - How best to deal with this? 

 

Current accounts are tricky but again basically they must issue a demand and issue a Notice of Default ( Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974. Keep track of what your actual true debt is and what the Bank is applying in interest penalty fees...keep them separate. As for interest accruing it may or not subject to the bank or whether they freeze the account. If they do its really irrelevant because its possibly interest applied to a debt that they are creating and increasing...so you have very little control over that. They will default you and again possibly assign the debt. 

 

As for the clash in your new parachute account and having a credit card connected (MBNA) I'm afraid It can only be a case of watch this space as its impossible to know how MBNA will react or whether they are sufficiently connected to your new account to be able to off set any debt.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Quote

Interesting.. things must have changed since I learned of the Statue of Limitation years and years ago, I guess it helps to stay abreast.

 

 

Some bed time reading ....

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for the material, is it sad that I just had to read it right away!? :)

 

Interesting, as my first thought when you mentioned the Status of Limitations 'start'' was "hmmm well delaying it would only benefit the creditor...." In my opinion the timer should start the moment the debtor receives a dated letter with the default notice.. it does raise questions as to whether the receipt of a default notice needs to be acknowledged... signed for etc.. but I guess this is the primary reason for keeping all paperwork to hand throughout the next say 10 years, as you never know when the creditor may jump out the woodwork and assign court papers.

 

Of that case in particular, the creditor waiting ALONG time to serve and I wonder if given the amount (~£26K) affected their decision on whether to sell the debt or not, I suspect it did given it's a large sum and they thought they would be successful.

 

Thanks again I enjoyed mulling that over

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It was my intention to use my parachute account for my salary moving forwards with my new employer, but given I now know they are part of the same banking group as one of my creditors, should I change this? would they be allowed to access this account say straight after payday and zero it to clear some of the debt? or would it just give them insight into my earnings etc?

 

Happy to find another bank however with a 0 credit rating as of this month, I'm unsure whether a bank would give me an account even with 0 OD

 

Can you advise please?

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co-op?

 

it would be very rare for an mbna card to suck funds from a bank account. which bank?

off set is quite rare.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hey dx,

 

Yeh I can create an account with Co-op for sure if you think it's worth.

 

MBNA part of HSBC group... don't know how I missed it because I really tried to get it right!!.. I was swayed to them too as my missus also banks there and thought it would be easier

 

I have card and loan with them, loan is defaulted but not on credit file as such just yet, CC is still threatening letters stage

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hsbc bought mbna , well some stuff, if its before their purchase then i dont think they can.

 

pers i would never have gone with hsbc regardless id have used the co-op

 

you should be aok

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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