A+L/Shoosmiths Claimform going for CCJ/CO - Unsecured loan **SETTLED BY TOMLIN**

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

I called the court today and they have confirmed Shoos have returned the AQ today.

 

Its a bit disappointing that they were automatically given an extra two weeks to return it.

 

What next??

 

Cheers

 

B

 

I also received a copy of the AQ, not sure what information I should post on here but one thing that looks a bit extreme is the estimated costs.

 

Shoo's have quoted costs of £8000.00!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

 

Is that usual or proportionate, seems like an extreme cost to attend court and prepare a case of this nature! Bloody hell if they do end up lumping costs like that on and win, I am screwed!

Edited November 19, 2009 by bozalt

[bozalt]

Another letter received today 'without prejudice' stating they have extended the offer of reduced settlement.

 

This is the first I have heard about any offer of reduced settlement so intend to write back asking for a copy of the letter they claim was sent that referred to a reduced settlement and reconfirm my offer to pay by reduced instalments.

 

Could anyone advise if this is the wise thing to do?

 

Many thanks

 

B

[angel_1]

hiya bozalt

 

have come across this thread of yours today and wow ive refreshed myself with a lot of stuff that i learnt early on in my journeys that at the time just went over my head but today, wow, and double wow, knowledge ive read again now makes sense - so am subbing if i may please

 

fab help from the crew of caggers as always this forum is the best ever

 

have a fun weekend to all and wishing you lots of positive luck

 

laters angel x:cool:

[bozalt]

Thanks for looking in and the support Angel it is much appreciated. Have a great weekend.

 

B

[AndyOrch]

Shoo's have quoted costs of £8000.00!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mindgames Bozalt the max ceiling costs for fast track are £1500.00:D

 

Ref their AQ have they marked settlement?

Have they marked applications?

Have they made any direction?

 

What have they typed in other?

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for looking in, I thought the costs were a bit astronomical and am grateful for your reassuring information regarding costs.

 

They have marked settlement and asked for a one month stay, they have not marked applications and the directions are as follows;

 

1 Claim to be allocated to fast track

2 Disclosure by 29/12

3 Witness evidence by 19/1

4 Pre-Trial checklist by 2/2

5 Trial within 3 weeks of 16/2 with three hours

6 Costs

 

They have not entered anything in other, I received their letter regarding reduced settlement today together with confirmation of thefast track allocation from my local court.

 

Can you shed any light on what I should do now???

 

Many thanks

 

B

[AndyOrch]

Hi Bozalt

 

Not sure what you mean on what you should do now.

You proceed if thats your choice and go to trial, litigation is 90% mind games 10% law as I'm sure you are finding out,its who blinks first and who calls the bluff that is the game.Now if settlement letters are starting to flow then thats an indication as per their AQ that they have no desire to go to trial as much as you,but its your defence that you rely on and do you think you can win? Never show weakness and never show your full hand, litigation can be used for much many more reasons than just getting a trial window ie you can reach mutual settlement before then and get the Claimant back to the position were you preferred pre litigation.

If you prefer the settlement route then you have to know how to barter them and achieve a fig that you realistically can afford and maintain if its a payment plan.

Whatever you decide i will assist in attain what ever you feel is acceptable

 

Regards

 

Andy

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for your reply, I guess I am happy to go to trial and use the faulty default as my defence and see where that leads but it would be great to resolve this without the need for court.

 

I guess really I was wondering if I should respond as per my earlier post and ask for details of their proposal for a reduced settlement. I am happy to negotiat instalments but not for the value they proposed as I just dont have the resources.

 

All I have ever set out to achieve is to avoid a judgment/charging order situation. I think I will write back and ask them for their proposed reduced settlement figure and then try to negotiate an insalment plan that is feasible and acceptable.

 

Once again many thanks for your advice it is a huge comfort to know that you are looking in.

 

Many thanks for your time.

 

B

[bach]

Hi, Can you tell me which court you will be attending.

 

It's just that having attended Birmingham on the last 6 occasions (the same subject as yourself ) the Judge ordered that the case be put aside untill the ruling at Chester County Court in October and April 2010.

 

On my last visit the Judge said that due to in competance and lack of following practice direction, that he would have to reveiw Shoosmiths costs in favour of the Defendant. Shoosmith's also never seem to use the same solicitors to attend their court case'shense none of them no as much as they should about the case

 

Regards Lynn

[bach]

Can you tell me which court you will be attending.

 

It's just that having attended Birmingham on the last 6 occasions (the same subject as yourself ) the Judge ordered that the case be put aside untill the ruling at Chester County Court in October and April 2010.

 

On my last visit the Judge said that due to in competance and lack of following practice direction, that he would have to reveiw Shoosmiths costs in favour of the Defendant. Shoosmith's also never seem to use the same solicitors to attend their court case's hense none of them no as much as they should about the case

 

Regards Lynn

[bozalt]

Hi Lynn

 

The court is in North London, blimey that is a lot of hassle for you having to attend 6 times.

 

It does sound like Shoos are a shambles have they not made any overtures to try and settle at all? It really does sound like they do not know what they are doing at all.

 

I wish you all the best with your case, are your circumstances similar to mine in that the default was incorrectly issued?

 

Best regards

 

B

[bozalt]

Just sending a letter to A&L to ask what kind of settlement they have in mind and then to negotiate.

 

Hopefully this can be resolved!

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

Me again, looking for futher advice.

 

I received a letter from Shoos today stating their letter regarding settlement was sent in error and that they expect me to withdraw my defence and sign the consent order.

 

They state that as my defence has no prospect of success this is the way I should proceed.

 

As it looks like they do not want to negotiate and I have to exchange lists of documents by 29 December I was looking for some guidance as what the list should include and how this should be presented.

 

Many thanks

 

B

[bach]

Hi Bozalt. Im outraged that Shoosmiths have said this letter was in error. I'm even more annoyed with my self for not saying to you not to negotiate with them. Having siad that it can only go in your favour that you have tried to find a solution to gthe problem.They are playing games. If you decide to continue with the case I will try to help you from now on.

Shoosmiths seem to send different representatives for the Court cases, I had five different ones so far, the Judge commented last time am I going to get you the next time in Court as I have a different person everytime and no one knows whats going on. Even told the Solicitor to get a grip.

I will pm you a letter I sent to Shoosmiths, put in the relevent details that you need to know.

Send a copy of your Shoosmiths letter to the Court Manager,claim Number clearly marked, and ask that they attach the copy letter to your file for future referal should it be required.

Send recorded and signed for both letters

[bozalt]

Hi Bach

 

Thanks for your support and the letter template also apologies for the delay in responding. I lost my internet connection for a couple of days.

 

I am not really sure what Shoo's are playing at either, I thought they might want to avoid the court case but they seem determined to go through with it.

 

I will adapt the letter you gave me and send that off. Are you able to advise what I should include in my list of documents for the court at all?

 

Once again thanks for your help and support.

 

Cheers

 

B

[bozalt]

Hi Bach

 

I have sent the CPR letter off today.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Cheers

 

B

[AndyOrch]

What CPR letter Bozalt can you post details for the forum to see.

 

 

Andy

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

It was an edited version of the following;

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your Company to enable me to file a defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. The information must be returned to me with in ten days, information not forthcoming by PUT DATE IN, will then be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Alliance & Leicester.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

I will require this information within the next ten days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

A copy of this letter has been sent to the Court to attach to my file.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 

I would be grateful for your your thoughts? I am a bit of a loss as to how to present the list of documents and what documents should be included.

The court case is now scheduled for February with no sign that Shoos are prepared to negotiate.

 

Many thanks

 

B

Edited December 9, 2009 by bozalt

[AndyOrch]

The CPR request is usually made on receipt of the summons Bozalt in preparation of submitting a Defence,as you will have read in a lot of threads they are invariably ever responded to.As you are past AQ stage the above really was a bit pointless really because you will have already requested the documents in your draft Directions.

Dont get despondent on the fact that Shooes seem not to want to negotiate,this can happen at any time even up to the trial date.I assure you that they are a keen not to go to trial as you are and as so mediation is open throughout the process.Remember he who blinks first!!!!!

Ok your next stage is disclosure and exchange of Documents(use this a another stage to discover any missing paperwork) and s another chance to thwart their case.

Download the N265 and list all th Documents you intend to rely upon in your case or refered to in your Defence.List them in chronological order.

Dont worry if you dont have much its the Claimant that will have the most.Such docs may be DN/ letters of request of assistance, payment plans etc.Dont list any Docs the Court or the Claimant as sent you.They will only request exchange of anything they are unaware of or is dangerous to their case.

Refer back to your last Court Order this specifies a date at which the List must be exchanged and the date which the docs must be simultaneously exchanged.

Thats al lfor now and sould keep you busy and Bozalt dont post anymore letters without checking on the forum first or advised by PM.

 

Regards

Andy

[bozalt]

Thanks for your advice Andy, I really am struggling to get round all this court stuff as it is very new to me.

 

I will download the N265 and and complete accordingly, I think the documents I have will be few.

 

Many thanks for your advice.

 

B

[bozalt]

Trouble Posting To Board !

Edited December 20, 2009 by bozalt

[bozalt]

Trouble Posting To Board

Edited December 20, 2009 by bozalt

[bozalt]

Trouble Posting To Board!

Edited December 20, 2009 by bozalt

[bozalt]

Hi Andy

 

I hope you are well and looking forward to the christmas break. Its certainly turned cold this week.

 

Could I ask for your opinion on the following disclosure list, I do not have many documents to list as up until March 2009 most contact was made over the phone.

 

1. Default notice date 27 June 2008 - Default notice from Alliance & Leicester

 

2. Letter to A & L dated 26 March 2009 - Payment offer/Statement of affairs

 

3. Letter to A & L dated 21 June 2009 - Payment offer/Statement of affairs

 

4. Letter to Shoosmiths dated 11 July 2009 - Payment offer/Statement of affairs

 

5. Letter to Shoosmiths dated 11 August 2009 - Letter regarding response from Alliance & Leicester stating they have no trace of my account and confirming payment offer.

 

6. Letter to Alliance & Leicester dated 11 August 2009 - Letter confirming account details and requesting response to Subject Access Request.

 

7. Letter to Shoosmiths dated 3 September 2009 - Letter requesting copy agreement and copy default under CPR 31.

 

8. Letter to Shoosmiths dated 22 November 2009 - Response to reduced settlement offer from Shoosmiths and request for clarification.

 

 

I also have a couple of questions which I hope you would not mind answering? Namely document 8 on my list was in response to a 'Without Prejudice' letter offering reduced settlement which Shoo's subsequently claim was sent to me in error, am I allowed to include this?

 

Should I send the disclosure list to the court as well as Shoo's? The date for exchange is 29 December 2009 so I suppose I need to get this posted by 24 December 2009 for it reach them.

 

Many thanks in advance for your time and trouble.

 

Best regards

 

B

Edited December 20, 2009 by bozalt

[bozalt]

Just had a further thought, I included the DN as its faulty but should I take this out and let Shoos prove that they have a copy of the default and it was issued correctly?

 

Many thanks

 

B