A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

[vint1954]

Hi, I am brand new on here so hope I am in the correct place!

 

A charging order has been put on our property for a debt of £5,035 (originally a £3000 credit card debt) and has since been sold on to another company.

 

This new company is trying to force us to pay this debt and is now threatening to do an attachment of earnings on my husbands wages to get their money.

 

We have other debts with payment agreements for £1 per month, several times over and are barely making ends meet.

 

We have offered, via the CAB to pay £5 per month off this debt which they refused. We have however asked on 2 occasions for the bank details so that we can make payments to the solicitor anyway. They have never been sent and we have now had a letter informing us we haven't kept up our agreement (they wouldn't make one with us) so they are going to get an attachment of earnings.

 

Can they do this?

 

Thanks so much in advance.

They will have to get the court to order the attachment. They cannot do it themselves.

 

Try writing to them explaining that they have not accepted your offer.

[vint1954]

Hi guys

 

Have read the thread with interest(no pun intended) but still have questions

 

I have a creditor who has a CCJ for a debt of £1800. Judge ordered monthly instalments of £12 as I am on benefits. 1st payment was orderd by 20/03/2010 so standing order set up for 4th of each month.

 

Wed. I get a Notice of Hearing to attend court miles away in 2wks for hearing to consider claimants request for variation order.

 

Today I get the claimants paperwork - they are asking for forthwith judgement and C.O. claiming that the post-judgment contractual interest is increasing the debt and the payments are not reducing it.

 

The agreement does allow for post-judgmental contractual interest at 2% per month. It was for leased equipment for a business venture and regulated under CCA 1974.

 

I have written to court and asked for hearing to be transferred to local court but wont know result of this for week or so I guess.

In the meantime though I need to put a defence together - oh joy!

 

Questions (and forgive me for being dense at times LOL):

 

a) is there case law which prevents contractual interest continuing after award of CO?

 

b) if so, surely I am better to accept the CO than to have ongoing 2% monthly interest?

 

c) if CO in place, do payments continue as well or are they ceased until such times as house is sold?

 

d) shouldn't they have asked for a list of all other creditors to inform them of their intended actions or is this only for secured creditors such as mortgage co etc?

 

I have started a thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/258102-creditor-wants-charging-order.html#post2907016

 

Many thanks for all your help

(she says hopefully LOL )

MKB,

 

this was posted on another thread by andyorch:

If the Claimant is successful in obtaining the CCJ the order will be forthwith ie pay in one lump sum within a prescribed period,if you are not in a position to pay in one payment you apply for a redetermination order immediately (n245) and submit a I&E.The DJ will then set monthly payments for you if you ever default on this then the Claimant can apply for a CO but only if you default.Any DJ that allows application for CO on a redetermination order is infact breaking the law himself.

 

Regards

Andy

[cartoonheros]

Hi sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, but first time on here, so help me if you can. Even if just to tell me i am in the wrong place.

 

Hi, i have a charging order on my house regaring a bank loan that i took out back in 2002 from RBS for originally £12k, i owed maybe £11 from memory but Charging Order is for £16k.

 

Long story short, they finally wrote back to me after about a year of letters and stated that they do not have the credit agreement but i should have it and refer to that, and if need be they can provide me with copies of statements for the loan as it was paid into my bank account with the RBS.

 

Where do i go next regard the charging order on the house. Can anyone help me out, as i only know about credit card legal stuff and not really loan stuff. Surely i could get this C/O removed but does that still mean that i would have to pay the debt back?

Cheers guys.

[mkb]

MKB,

 

this was posted on another thread by andyorch:

If the Claimant is successful in obtaining the CCJ the order will be forthwith ie pay in one lump sum within a prescribed period,if you are not in a position to pay in one payment you apply for a redetermination order immediately (n245) and submit a I&E.The DJ will then set monthly payments for you if you ever default on this then the Claimant can apply for a CO but only if you default.Any DJ that allows application for CO on a redetermination order is infact breaking the law himself.

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

Vint - thank you so much

 

Off to search for the thread Andy said that in

[vint1954]

Hi sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, but first time on here, so help me if you can. Even if just to tell me i am in the wrong place.

 

Hi, i have a charging order on my house regaring a bank loan that i took out back in 2002 from RBS for originally £12k, i owed maybe £11 from memory but Charging Order is for £16k.

 

Long story short, they finally wrote back to me after about a year of letters and stated that they do not have the credit agreement but i should have it and refer to that, and if need be they can provide me with copies of statements for the loan as it was paid into my bank account with the RBS.

 

Where do i go next regard the charging order on the house. Can anyone help me out, as i only know about credit card legal stuff and not really loan stuff. Surely i could get this C/O removed but does that still mean that i would have to pay the debt back?

Cheers guys.

I beleive that you would need to go back to court to do that, but it would probably mean challenging the agreement and default notice.

 

Them having a note of the loan movements does not signify the existence of a legal agreement, which they must retain with your signature on it.

 

I would suggest that you start a new thread in the legal issues forum, maybe titled "How do I get a charging order removed" You will get better advice there.

[Iannun]

I am sorry if I have posted this on the wrong thread.

 

I am looking for some help. I got a CCJ last September for a little over £700. I made no offer to pay, but have received a form N24 (general form of judgement).The form says this

 

It is ordered that

 

The application is adjourned to 16th June 2010 at XXX at XXXXXXX County Court. The interim order to continue until further order. The claimants are to serve the ICO and notice of hearing upon and persons they know of as creditors and the persona named in paragraph 6 of the application.

 

Now here is my problem. I have not made any offer of payments and I know that is wrong. I have only had this one sheet of information and I received it three weeks ago. I have not had any other information from them, my wife who owns half the house has had no notification.

 

I am have been in severe bad health for the past four months and in and out of hospital. This Saturday I am scheduled to have a seven hour operation, then a further one on the 16th. So I am not focused on this order at all. To be honest, I am frightened witless about the operation and do not know where to turn.

 

I have only received the form I had mentioned above.

 

I am severely disabled, one DLA and Income support. Our house is mortgaged and is jointly own and in negative equity (30%).

 

Can someone advise me on the letter I can send to the court. Even an adjournment for a few months until I recover would help. I honestly don't need the worry.

 

Thank you in advance if you can help me. Can they sell my house when I am in hospital, how can I stop it?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Iannun
I have found the right forum for my posting.

[sprogg]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/265739-charging-order-responsibility-debt.html#post3007773 Edited June 30, 2010 by sprogg
new thread created - refer sequenci comment

[sequenci]

Hi, we have judgement against a particularly difficult individual who has now decided after only 12 months payments [of 96] that they have paid the debt in full.

 

We are contemplating issuing a Charging Order to the property however the property is not owned by the individual owing the money, but their surviving parent.

 

That said, the parent has assumed responsibility for the debt payments since the final court decision was made and I would like clarification that if the parent has assumed responsibility for the payments then they are likewise responsible for the debt, or have assumed responsibility by making the payments (if that makes sense!)

 

Therefore, if the above is correct [in law] would we be making the right decision to apply for a charging order?

 

Or should we send bailiffs, in which we hold little confidence?

 

The person who owes you the money is the only one responsible for the debt. If the property is not the debtors a charging order application is likely to fail. What you could do is serve an obtain to obtain information and then consider an attachment of earnings if they are working?

 

Please consider starting your own thread so that we can assist you furthermore.

[meursault22]

I'm facing yet another order for sale application. Previous ones were dismissed because of the small amount of the debt but it's now getting seriously bumped up with costs.

 

Just in case it's successful,

 

Can anyone say for sure if it happens, how the value of the house gets carved up? The ones applying are still have by far the smallest interest in the property. Can they actually take control of the sale? By they way, the amount of the charges on the property, by mortgage , charging orders etc... now far exceed the value of the property.

[CBR600F]

Can anyone say for sure if it happens, how the value of the house gets carved up?

Its the order in which the mortgages/loans/CO are on the land registry.

i.e. first come, first served.

 

Therefore the latest one is not going to get all what thy are after....

[meursault22]

All the charging orders do not seem to be the same. A couple of them have restrictions attached and a couple do not, so is the priority still just the timescale?

 

Also, who does control of the sale go to? For example, can a company with a charging order of £70 apply for order for sale and take control of the sale when there are other charging orders for far larger amounts?

[Ganymede]

All the charging orders do not seem to be the same. A couple of them have restrictions attached and a couple do not, so is the priority still just the timescale?

 

Also, who does control of the sale go to? For example, can a company with a charging order of £70 apply for order for sale and take control of the sale when there are other charging orders for far larger amounts?

 

 

 

Registered charges and equitable charges take priority over restrictions.

 

The creditor that applies for the OFS, regardless of size of the debt, is the one that will control it and they will have to pay the funds to the 1st chargeholder who in turn pay it to the next chargeholder and so on until the are all repaid and anything that is left at the end of it will go to the property owner, i.e. you!

[Basil Fawlty]

Is it true that the new government has stopped orders for sale on any debt less than £25,000?

 

If so, if you had say, 3 credit cards with the same company, each one less than £25K debt, but the total of all 3 is more than £25K, would the company still be able to go for an order for sale?

 

BF

[meursault22]

Registered charges and equitable charges take priority over restrictions.

 

The creditor that applies for the OFS, regardless of size of the debt, is the one that will control it and they will have to pay the funds to the 1st chargeholder who in turn pay it to the next chargeholder and so on until the are all repaid and anything that is left at the end of it will go to the property owner, i.e. you!

 

Thanks. The house is hugely in negative equity so there will be nothing left. All the charges are listed as registered charges but some of them have restrictions attached to them eg. no disposition without written consent from Lloyds, Cheltenham & Gloucester.

[Ganymede]

Thanks. The house is hugely in negative equity so there will be nothing left. All the charges are listed as registered charges but some of them have restrictions attached to them eg. no disposition without written consent from Lloyds, Cheltenham & Gloucester.

 

 

If the house in in negative equity now, before an OFS application, then I doubt the creditor would be granted it or even bother applying for one.

 

I wouldn't worry about the restrictions attached to the registered charges they are standard and won't affect the OFS and don't mean you have to pay twice or anything like that, they are just in place to make sure you get their consent before you sell the house.

[meursault22]

This is interesting! They have actually applied for two orders of sale since the property has been in negative equity! ... and been granted a large amount of court costs for their application! I guess there are no laws saying they can't do it.

[Ganymede]

This is interesting! They have actually applied for two orders of sale since the property has been in negative equity! ... and been granted a large amount of court costs for their application! I guess there are no laws saying they can't do it.

 

 

There is no point applying for an OFS if there is negative equity BEFORE they start the OFS as none of the creditors will get any money back at all as the 1st mortgagee will get it all and there would still be a shortfall!

 

It's seems strange, unless they are only doing it so that they can add £1k costs to your debt each time?! I would argue this point a the OFS hearing and remind them that there is no equity and that you oppose costs being awarded.

[meursault22]

Only 1K costs being added seems great! Try £3,800.

I have tried opposing costs being added as well as claiming my own costs stating that their actions are vexatious and an abuse of process intended to profit through excessive costs, but the judge has made his opinions ( presumably based at best on personal prejudice) very clear. Each time, the OFS is dismissed but huge costs are added.

Edited July 5, 2010 by meursault22

[Ganymede]

Is it true that the new government has stopped orders for sale on any debt less than £25,000?

 

If so, if you had say, 3 credit cards with the same company, each one less than £25K debt, but the total of all 3 is more than £25K, would the company still be able to go for an order for sale?

 

BF

 

 

No this is not true, no such limit exists.

 

 

 

Only 1K costs being added seems great! Try £3,800.

I have tried opposing costs being added as well as claiming my own costs stating that their actions are vexatious and an abuse of process intended to profit through excessive costs, but the judge has made his opinions ( presumably based at best on personal prejudice) very clear. Each time, the OFS is dismissed but huge costs are added.

 

 

In that case I would work on getting the CCJ setaside and the CO removed ASAP so as to stop any further OFS applications!

[meursault22]

Thanks again, I really have to dig up the original thread about this.

I had a setaside hearing, and the same judge who has reserved this case to himself willfully misunderstood everything, misdirected himself as usual, and dismissed the set aside application. I really had no idea that judges got involved in fiercely arguing the case for one side only, but that has been the case here. By the way, the grounds used to dismiss the set aside application was that the judge believed that the original Northampton summons had been correctly served. (even though it in fact wasn't). The fact that I had considerable evidence that I should never have been taken to court was not relevant according to the judge. He said that the first thing to consider was whether the summons had been correctly served and in his opinion, it had. His final words were that the only process left to me is a high court appeal which will cost a great deal of money and that he will attach a note to the file that an appeal has no merit. I have been right royally stitched up!

[sequenci]

How was the summons served?

[meursault22]

How was the summons served?

 

Apparently through the post, although I never recieved it nor the judgement until the land registry got in touch letting me know that an interim charging order had been applied for.

[sequenci]

Always a moot point this. I'm of the belief that claims should be sent recorded. It's always your word against the courts.

[meursault22]

Recorded would be good and to the right address would be even better. It would stop things happenning like my situation, where the original paperwork has been "lost" and an ammended copy provided to the judge by the claimant (at the hearing). The bottom line is that if the judge doesn't like you or is prejudiced in some way, there's nothing more that can be done. It's all about these huge companies making more profit by any means.

[butts]

Good question and one to which I don't know the answer to. It's not often they come back to us at that stage - we provide a self-help advice service so most people would deal with things themselves, or get referred on for casework/solicitor support.

 

I'll try and find out for you though!

 

Did you ever find the answer as I can't see a reply in subsequent postings ?