A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

[bilious]

Snap! Yours with Re5tons, too? I seriously do wonder about them & their reasons for taking so many to court to get co's. Is it to "prop" up their assets so their company can look like they haven't "lost" all the money due to the downturn..hmmm..

 

Thanks, Sequenci - you are always a very big help to people like me!

 

Nope mine are the lovely gentleman ( can't do sarcasm on keyboard.) from optima.

[sparklyfairy]

Thanks, DD - I appreciate your advice!

 

Good luck, Bilious & try not to stress too much, MBNA def aren't worth it!

[the_shadow]

3 posts unnapproved... thanks DD and Spamheed.

 

S.

[cymruambyth]

Installments are not part of a court order, they are the agreement that the DJ hoped we could reach (but failed to state this in his judgement). Thisagreement was dated before the date the full sum had to be paid. The court had a copy of the letter and said it would be sufficient.

Is it worth sending a copy of the letter as an attachment for redetermination or some other order or will it be too late?

I hope to challenge any and everything (not that it seems to do much good where I live!)

 

Just an update, court have formalised the informal installment arrangements and payments have gone by SO prior to the date set by the court. Hopefully this will give me some bargaining whn they try for the CO.

[Undercover-Elsa]

That's good news Cymru, well done!

 

Elsa x

[cymruambyth]

Thanks, I now have to worry about whether they have already applied for an interim CO and I haven't heard, but even if they have I have ammo.

[bilious]

Hi guys if i do lose this hearing for the final co what do i ask for to stop the forced sale of the house (can't have wife and two young children on the street!) and if i can only afford what i've been paying will that be accepted again? cos mbna don't seem happy with whatever they are granted and can they charge interest on this?

[shelby67]

Edited February 10, 2011 by shelby67

[Ganymede]

Have just spent the past hour reading this entire thread to see if I can get the answer to my problem...... any advice would be greatly received.

My Mum has had a CO made against her by a family member. We contested the CO but it was granted. The debt stands at £17k.

Mum applied to pay the debt by installments to the court and has sent 3 payments at the beginning of each Dec, Jan and Feb for £20 each. The court advised us after the first payment to send the cheque to their solicitor.

Mum received a letter today with a 'Creditors Reply to Debtors Application to Vary Order' form, stating that they do not accept the £20 a month but want £200. Mum is a pensioned widower on DLA and recovering from cancer. No income apart from pension and DLA. They've said on the form that there should be adequate equity in the house to pay the debt in full.

The property is mortgaged, with the DSS paying the interest on the mortgage.

 

My question is can the solicitor force a sale and put my Mum on the streets? By cashing the first 3 payments have they accepted the offer of £20.00 a month???

Any advice is very gratefully received.

 

 

They can try and force the sale but it will cost them a fair bit and it is difficult to do but not impossible, especially if there is a lot of equity in the property.

 

No, they £20.00 payments are not binding. You can't unilaterally form a binding contract.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Ganymede

[shelby67]

Edited February 12, 2011 by ukaviator

[sequenci]

Keep us updated. I'm pretty certain that any reasonable judge will acknowledge the limited income and will refuse the variation.

Edited February 12, 2011 by ukaviator

[shelby67]

Update:- Is still with the court for 'redetermination'. Just got to sit and wait to see if they can decide or if it has to go to another hearing before a judge.

Feel sick with worry. I know its only money but the fear that it installs churns my stomach,

Thank you for your responses.

[shelby67]

Hiya,

you will see that I've deleted my original question as I am worried in case for some reason, the creditor might see my post. I know this is unlikely, but I do worry. Ganymede, would you be able to delete the quote from your reply to me???

 

The court has just rung me to say that the redetermination has been done and the court has issued an order to pay £50 a month. This is a lot more acceptable than my Mum losing her house. Although its possible they will appeal the order

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

[regan11]

Hi guys, just a quick question. Is a charging order taken out on a house that I only half owned valid.

My Father died in 2005.

He left his property to myself and my brother.

In2006 they got a charging order on the property[by default] against me,

In 2007 I bought my brothers half share.

The CO was not register with land registry until 2010 and now they are after an gder of sale.

Any help would be gratefully recieved. Thanks,

[diddydicky]

take your income and expenditure sheets (4 copies) with you to the court and ask the judge to make an order for £XXX to be paid every month and that the creditor may take no further action so long as the payments are maintained

 

 

even if the judge makes no order you would then negotiate with the creditor and if you could not agree then you go back to court for a re determination

 

your house will not be force sold-

[Ganymede]

Hiya,

you will see that I've deleted my original question as I am worried in case for some reason, the creditor might see my post. I know this is unlikely, but I do worry. Ganymede, would you be able to delete the quote from your reply to me???

 

The court has just rung me to say that the redetermination has been done and the court has issued an order to pay £50 a month. This is a lot more acceptable than my Mum losing her house. Although its possible they will appeal the order

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

 

 

I can't find the edit button? Am I just being dense??

[Ganymede]

Hi guys, just a quick question. Is a charging order taken out on a house that I only half owned valid.

My Father died in 2005.

He left his property to myself and my brother.

In2006 they got a charging order on the property[by default] against me,

In 2007 I bought my brothers half share.

The CO was not register with land registry until 2010 and now they are after an gder of sale.

Any help would be gratefully recieved. Thanks,

 

 

Are you saying that there is a restriction against your beneficial interest from a CO in 2006 or do you mean CCJ?

 

So they have a charging order registered as an equitable charge now that you own the whole of the property?

 

DO you live in the house? If you don't then the creditor is more likely to be able to get the OFS.

[diddydicky]

Hi guys, just a quick question. Is a charging order taken out on a house that I only half owned valid.

My Father died in 2005.

He left his property to myself and my brother.

In2006 they got a charging order on the property[by default] against me,

In 2007 I bought my brothers half share.

The CO was not register with land registry until 2010 and now they are after an gder of sale.

Any help would be gratefully recieved. Thanks,

 

it is highly unusual for a creditor to make an application for an order for sale

 

have you not been making payments to them?

 

did you make an arrangement with them at the time to make payments either monthly or at some agreed time?

 

if you agreed payments- have you kept to them?

 

how much is the order for and how much is the house worth

 

to answer your first question last- it does not matter how many people are co owners of a property - the co is a charge against YOUR SHARE in that property.

[regan11]

Thanks for you input guys.When the house was left to my brother and myself we had tried to sell it. It was valued at the 80k mark.It was during this time that that the charging order was placed,[2006]. We could'nt sell it so I brought my brothers 40k share off him on a 60k mortgage.[2007]They want 22k off me[the amount keeps changing though. last time they tried this they wanted nearly 30k] I have not made any payments towards it they were never offered. I personally do not believe I owe this money but foolishly did nothing about it. For more info see my thread in the legal section 'SAR to solicitors' Thanks folks.

[diddydicky]

well with respect- it is hardly surprising that they now wish to force a sale

 

i think(without reading the thread) that you ought to start doing some serious negotiating with the creditor about what you can afford to be paying

 

orders for sale are very very rare................but are reserved for just such situations.............where the debtor is taking the P*ss(or will be accused by the creditor of doing so )

[regan11]

Thanks diddy I get your point but I think you should read the thread.

Still not really any wiser.

CO taken out in 2006 when the property was joint owned but I think the opposition did not take this into consideration when they applied so would this render it invalid.

I have no documents to check this, and after numerous SAR's the solicitors refuse to send me any relevent documention they hold on me.Mind you I have one letter were they calaim they have.

Been reading a lot about restrictions but I cant get my head round it, Need it explained simply.

[diddydicky]

Thanks diddy I get your point but I think you should read the thread.

Still not really any wiser.

CO taken out in 2006 when the property was joint owned but I think the opposition did not take this into consideration when they applied so would this render it invalid.

I have no documents to check this, and after numerous SAR's the solicitors refuse to send me any relevent documention they hold on me.Mind you I have one letter were they calaim they have.

Been reading a lot about restrictions but I cant get my head round it, Need it explained simply.

 

no, as i said before- the CO that was taken out would have been against YOUR interest in the property- it does not matter how many other co owners there are so it would not be invalid

 

what the charging order (restriction) means is simple- it is a second mortgage which means that when you sell the property- your solicitor has to repay all the secured lending (which includes this charge) from the proceeds of the sale BEFORE he can give you any change

 

had your brother still been a co owner- the solicitor would have taken this only from YOUR HALF of the profit- but as you have bought him out and now own the property in toto- then the sols will deduct this amount (after any mortages before it) from the proceeds of the sale

 

as i said before- it is rare for a creditor to force a sale- but where there has been no payment or offer of payments from several years- the creditor will have a good case to make such an application

 

if the creditor advised you at the time- you will not be able to use the failure of the creditor to send docs to you as an excuse- once you are aware of the charging order it is your responsibility to ensure that you take the necessary steps to prevent any further action by the creditor

 

which is why i suggested that if you have paid nothing for 5 years you need to negotiate something

 

you can find out easily from the land registry who holds the charging order on your property

[regan11]

Maybe I cant see the wood for the trees or just plain dumb, but to clarify,CO taken out on my half of the property 40k [2006] I buy the other 40k's worth[2007] and now the CO applies to the whole 80k. IS that right? Point being if it was only my share then it is negative equity, if its the whole thing then might just about make it. You see why I'm asking.

Edited February 13, 2011 by regan11
typos

[diddydicky]

yes im afraid you accidentally made things worse there!!

 

however, if after the existing mortgages (dont forget several thousand in selling fees) there is little or nothing left- it would be unlikely that the court would grant an order for sale...........there would be no point

 

the reason that a creditor obtains an "interim charging order" without the debtors knowledge............is to prevent them from trying to alter the balance of ownership before the final charging order hearing is heard

 

so whatever the arrangements were as at the time of the interim order- you will not be able to alter it!!

[Iannun]

Hi and I hope I can get some advice. Sorry if I have cut across someone thread, if so I will start my own.

 

I have just had high court (only saying north east so my creditor cannot identify me) charging order made and confirmed. I was being represented but ran out of money. The solicitors sent the papers to the solicitor not me. I have just received from my former solicitor the final charging order judgement paperwork.

 

The house is in joint names and we are around £30K minus equity. I disabled and very ill. I have hospital treatment three or four times a week. I am out of work and my wife is my carer and we live on income support and DLA.

 

I had a judgement filed against me when I was in hospital for four months. I came out and they applied for a interim charging order. I engaged a solicitor and he got it set aside and the charging order dismissed. I fell ill again and missed the court deadline for information (I was in hospital for three months this time and on so many tablets and morphine) I could not make any decisions. My doctor sent a letter saying that my judgement and cognitive thoughts were impaired due to the medication, but I still missed the courts deadlines. I ended up with a judgement over £70K.

 

They then went for a interim charging order. Believe it or not I was receiving hospital treatment and they dropped me, breaking my arm. So another spell in bed was spent (I cannot walk unaided and therefore lived in bed for four weeks). I have then missed the date for the hearing last week. Today, I received through the post the charging order.

 

I am distraught, the wife is suicidal. What can I do? Can I get it set aside? My wife who is half owner never had a copy of the paperwork, so how would she as an interested party know and object to the order.

 

More importantly, can they now force sell the house, or evict us? As I said the figures are

 

Debt and judgement over £70K

Mortgage a couple hundred pounds in arrears

Negative Equity of at least £30K

Both on IS, I am on DLA.

Two children, one in School one at college.

 

Any help or advice would be gratefully received. Get evicted and we end up a further burden of the state. Not proud of where I am, but I did not elect to have the fork lift drop a machine on me at work forcing me to use crutches or a chair.

 

Sorry, I started this question as a thread as I am a numpty who clearly did not read the guide.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Iannun
Sorry, I started this question as a thread as I am a numpty who clearly did not read the guide.