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    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
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Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice


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As a point of discussion and also pure ignorance on my part..:oops:

 

Could somebody please clarify...

 

With regards to enforceable documents... Very often when taking out a loan etc you may sign two copies of the document... one for creditor and one for the consumer.

 

Does the document have to be identical?

 

I.e could the creditors copy be the 'enforceable agreement with prescribed terms and sigs. etc all in one doc and the consumers copy be sigs etc and a seperate copy of terms and conditions?

 

Thanks spam. :)

 

both parties to the agreement should have a copy with both signatures on

 

either one is enfirceable

 

do they have to be identical - of course they should be exactly identical

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Thank you.. there is a CCA issue with regards to a Halifax CC where a cagger has his/her original doc without prescribed terms and they have supplied a copy as a result of a CA request WITH prescribed terms on back- suspect copy and pasting but wanted to clarify if it was usual for all copies sent out to the consumers on opening new accounts to be identical to the ones kept by creditor.

 

Spam. :)

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They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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Thank you.. there is a CCA issue with regards to a Halifax CC where a cagger has his/her original doc without prescribed terms and they have supplied a copy as a result of a CA request WITH prescribed terms on back- suspect copy and pasting but wanted to clarify if it was usual for all copies sent out to the consumers on opening new accounts to be identical to the ones kept by creditor.

 

Spam. :)

 

yes now i understand your qestion

 

that's because what he signed was a =n APPLICATION form and would not have contained the PT's

 

they have simply copied some PT's on the back

 

if i were him i would keep totally quiet about having a copy of the orignal

 

that's a bomb that should only be dropped in a courtroom!

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yes now i understand your qestion

 

that's because what he signed was a =n APPLICATION form and would not have contained the PT's

 

they have simply copied some PT's on the back

 

if i were him i would keep totally quiet about having a copy of the orignal

 

that's a bomb that should only be dropped in a courtroom!

 

 

Yes mum is the word in this case... just wanted to cover all bases ;-)

 

Didn't want MR halifax saying oh thats just the customers copy...we have the enforceable one! :eek:

 

Thanks again.

 

Spam. :).

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They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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Yes mum is the word in this case... just wanted to cover all bases ;-)

 

Didn't want MR halifax saying oh thats just the customers copy...we have the enforceable one! :eek:

 

Thanks again.

 

Spam. :).

 

Be careful about producing things in the courtroom.

 

There are many examples of courts barring such documents if standard disclosure has not been observed.

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Be careful about producing things in the courtroom.

 

There are many examples of courts barring such documents if standard disclosure has not been observed.

 

yes should perhaps have been more precise- they have to be within the (last minute) disclosures

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yes should perhaps have been more precise- they have to be within the (last minute) disclosures

 

I will make sure that the cagger in question is aware of this ;-)

 

Just wish it was me... still waiting for mine. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks Spam. :-)

Edited by Spamalot
I missed an 'o' out.. shoddy spelling Spam

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They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

I'm onto my fourth DCA with one account in so many months. If they were going to take it any further, they would have by now. Ignore it.

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I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

I just write these dossers and tell them "I don't do dca's" I'll only correspond with the original creditors. Once you get rid of the monotonous phone calls, they vanish.:D

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I will make sure that the cagger in questin is aware of this ;-)

 

Just wish it was me... still waiting for mine. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks Spam. :-)

 

Me too,

 

I'm just getting the same silly letters as everyone else on here.

 

If they want to entertain us then they should get rid of the legal dept and hire a full creative dept instead. Lets face it, they should be able to get as close to the intent of the legislation as the legal eagles seem to :rolleyes:

 

I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

You must be further on than me.

 

The letter I get are really polite...we want to be your friend, we want to try to help.

 

I guess they are so fed up with other Caggers shredding their efforts they just want to find someone to chat to who won't try to rubbish everything they say and do.

 

Begs the question, why are you writing to me, that's exactly what I do too. Silly people :-D.

 

Going back "on topic" as it were.

 

Has anyone got any info on the commercial court tast cases, when they will be heard etc?

 

Ta

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I just write these dossers and tell them "I don't do dca's" I'll only correspond with the original creditors. Once you get rid of the monotonous phone calls, they vanish.:D

 

I don't want to get rid of the phone calls, they are the armchair sport of choice in our household, especially when there's bugger all on the telly (most of the time) :-D

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I don't want to get rid of the phone calls, they are the armchair sport of choice in our household, especially when there's bugger all on the telly (most of the time) :-D

 

:lol::lol:

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They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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I have just had a stinker from Wescot Credit Services acting for Halifax. All Red and Black writing. They are not the first DCA to have been chasing up this alleged debt.

 

Hopster, if there is no CCA or an illegible document then you should send a letter of complaint to the OFT as in the following link.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

The OFT are unable to investigate individual complaints and will write and tell you so, however the information contained in the letter will reassure you that until and unless the OC/DCA can supply you with a document that contains all of the prescribed terms, is legible and bears your signature they will be unable to enforce the account.

 

They will also ask you to sign a permission slip in order for them to investigate once they have sufficient complaints.

 

I would suggest also sending a copy of the OFT letter to Westcot (or which ever DCA is involved) with a short covering letter. Thus:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Ref:

 

I was surprised to receive your letter/notice as this account is in Dispute and has been since (whenever).

 

Your intimidating notice leaves me with no alternative but to report your company to the OFT, a copy of that letter is enclosed for your attention.

 

I trust you will now return this account to your client.

 

Yours faithfully...

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  • 2 months later...

It would appear that some new claims for unenforceable issues have been stayed again. Thread linked below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216538-claim-stayed-due-unenforceable.html#post2385776

 

If anyone has any current information in this regard, can they please share.

 

This is the press release that put this issue to bed earlier in the year.

 

Thousands of Unenforceable Credit Agreement cases can now be heard

 

Thanks

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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As I understand it, the only cases referred to the commercial court related to removal of adverse credit references where an agreement was ruled unenforcible.

 

The arguement centres on whether applying defaults where the agreement is unenforcible constitutes enforcement.

 

There are no other cases that I know of. HHJ Halbart stated that relevant case law existed for the majority of unenforcibility cases to proceed.

 

The commercial court cases are due to be heard in October, as far as I recollect.

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Last January I received a telephone call from my bank asking me if I wanted to upgrade my credit card (Opened in Aug 1997) to a more flexible account. (Me thinks my old cca is defective) Just sign this new cca. (“I’ll think about it ”)

I have just spoken to a friend about my case being stayed, happened to mention the above statement to him, well low and behold he had a similar call a few months back ( Me thinks the banking industry is trying to of load there defective CCA’s)

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I am sorry to double post but I think this issue is the number 1 issue to ever come up in this forum, so I will. I look forward to any comments.

 

I am not sure what is going on in the Manchester case.

 

I was under the impression the Judge in Chester that has sent some test cases to London did not even get involved in the enforceability issue as none of the bank's barristers contested that they were not enforceable and the issue was only if they can record a default on a credit file if it was not enforceable and APR calculations.

 

Are they trying to say if there is no agreement at all that nobody knows if they had the prescribed conditions/signature etc? Surely this is madness to try and argue something about a contract which nobody has a true copy of?

 

Maybe it would be fun to get a transcript of the Chester hearing, if there were 50+ cases being heard at it I am sure the tape recorder would have been running. It would nice to see in transcript the banker's barristers agreeing no agreement = unenforceable (agreements before April 2007 of course).

 

Anyone involved in the Chester case fancy pm-ing me a claim number so I can try get it?

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Are the cases due to be heard in Manchester in October the same as the cases referred by Chester County Court to the Commercial Court in London on 30 September?

I find it strange that two courts in the same circuit have apparently put together different sample numbers of test cases on broadly the same topic.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Are the cases due to be heard in Manchester in October the same as the cases referred by Chester County Court to the Commercial Court in London on 30 September?

I find it strange that two courts in the same circuit have apparently put together different sample numbers of test cases on broadly the same topic.

 

 

No they are different

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