Lloybles no CCA still chasing debt

[thesergeant]

Advice please ..........

 

I have had an alleged debt with LLoybles for many years, I believe it originated from either Bank charges, overdraft or loan. You may think my memory of it is bad - however to date Lloybles have not been able to state from where it came.

 

I put the account into dispute with a number of DCA that Lloyables sent after me, they all backed off and it is now back with Lloybles.

 

I have Subject Access Request them, they supplied nothing I complained to Information Commissioners Office who investigated and Lloybles finally admitted that they had no information at all to give me, the account being over 9yrs old.

 

I have sent CCA request twice, they have supplied nothing, now stating the account is too old and they wouldn't keep anything.

 

I have not made any payments for over 18 months or more.

 

As I have previously made payments LLoybles are saying I have acknowledged the debt and despite them having no info whatsoever they are entitled to collect.

 

My position is that they have no CCA, no data as to where the debt came from, that I believe it has been miscalculated, misrepresented and is unenforceable.

 

Now Lloybles collections department have stated that I have a loan account with them (ie this debt) and they are chasing me again. I have previously written to them stating that it is unenforceable and that they are not to contact unless they are producing the CCA DPA documents.

 

What do I now do?

[thesergeant]

Please please please can some of you knowledgeable people comment upon my situation ........................ :-?

[thesergeant]

HELP ADVICE PLEASE

 

OK so now despite the account being in dispute for a couple of years, them previously having moved it on to DCA despite the dispute and the DCA's sending it back. They have now moved it on to another one.

 

Any suggestions as to what I do now, can I make a claim against them for some type of unlawful conduct?

 

Some one must have some thoughts on this? :?

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

Looking in as asked......

 

I have not made any payments for over 18 months or more.

 

As I have previously made payments LLoybles are saying I have acknowledged the debt and despite them having no info whatsoever they are entitled to collect.

They are correct, in that the alleged debt is not Staute Barred because you have made pay'ts within the last 6 years. You have threfore acknowledged the debt.

 

However, if they have no paperwork, Credit Agreement, etc, they clealy have no hope of enforcing the alleged debt through the courts.

 

Have you sent them the Prove It letter.

 

You should confirm to the DCA that you've been informed by the ICO that there is no Credit Agreement or any other paperwork available.

 

Confirm that Lloyds have failed to comply with your CCA request and the a/c is therefore In Dispute. Accordingly, any further contact from the DCA will be a clear breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, and will be reported to the FOS for formal investigation.

 

If a DCA contacts you again, report them to the FOS.

 

Also, complain to the FOS about the behaviour of Lloyds despite them admitting they have no paperwork to the ICO.

[thesergeant]

Thank you Slick.

 

What do you think of Lloyds actions. An account in dispute which they have acknowledged in communicating with me, but yet they engage two DCA' before taking it back again. Then they send me a made up, this is now a loan agreement letter and statement. Then when I again point out they have no CCA or any documents they again engage a DCA.

 

When I challenged this for the first two they send they had not sold it on they had only "engaged agents".

 

Surely this is unlawful, has any financial company ever been prosecuted?

 

Could they have breached Data Protection Act by forwarding my details on to this new DCA?

 

I would love to actually bring some sort of action against them, I have no conifdence in FOS. What about Trading Standards, Information Commissioner, OFT? Could I use the new CPUT regulations?

 

Or am I going of track !!

[diamondgirl]

Hi looking in as requested sorry it took so long.

I agree with Slick but this is a bit out of my are as I've not had this sort of problem before, but I would definaely do what Slick has said.

Sorry I can't be of any more help this is out of my league.

DG:)

[underdog13]

Hi thesergeant,

 

I'm in a similar position to you - Lloyds can't produce my agreement, but sent me a letter which consisted of the most absurd nonsense I have ever read; the gist of which is that although they can't prove it, there was a valid agreement otherwise I wouldn't have been sent a credit card and that the agreement was signed on my behalf by someone at Lloyds!!!

 

I'm now on the merrygoround of various DCAs - all making legal threats.

 

Quite frankly their response beggars belief. They would appear to have an appalling track record for producing compliant paperwork and will tell you any old nonsense in their attempt to pursue you.

 

Best of luck to you - I'll be following your thread with interest and adding anything I think may be of assistance to you

[tonyf333]

Lloyds have done the same to me , even admitted they have no sighed agreement on the phone . they take no notice of cca requests . now they have sent a letter from sechiari, clark & mitchell Lloyds solicitors if i dont pay up in 7 days going to take me to court ..

[thesergeant]

Been having a think, I wondered if I could request my TWO £1.00 CCA fees back as they never produced the CCA documents requested, which is what I believe the fee is there to pay for. But I have noticed one of them was credited to the alleged debt!

 

Gonna draft a letter.

[thesergeant]

The DCA now appointed by Lloybles is

 

Robinson, Way & Company Limited

Carolina Way

Quays Reach

Salford

Manchester

M50 2ZY

 

01619352201

 

They just ring and start asking you to identify your self without stating who they are. Told me to look out for a letter - stumped the monkey who rang me when I said NO.

 

Any one had dealings with these idiots.

 

Drafting another letter ................... 8)

[thesergeant]

GIVE ME MY £2.00 BACK - Eat my shorts Lloybles

 

I might even LBA them and start a claim - that might force the issue, counterclaim and all that ................

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Failure to to provide Regulated Credit Agreement – Demand for return of fees

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I require the return of two £1.00 fees I have sent you with my request for copies of any regulated credit agreements you held regarding your unlawful demands for repayment of a unenforceable alleged debt.

As you are aware I have made numerous attempts to secure access to any data you hold regarding the unenforceable alleged debt. I have served two Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77 – 79) {17/3/08 & 8/7/07} requests, via the Debt Collection Agents you unlawfully sold the alleged to, whilst the matter was clearly in dispute. With each of these request I enclosed a postal order for £1.00 being the accepted fee for producing the documents required. You failed to supply any documents, I therefore require repayment of the £2.00.

 

 

Please forward the payment to me by cheque made payable to:

thesergeant within 14 days.

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

Despite what you say, I'd make a complaint to the FOS about Lloyds, which will cost them for starters.

 

I'd not bother about getting the £2 back, although that is your prerogative. I'd be more concerned in getting this nailed once and for all.

 

If the likes of Robinson Wehaay have it, you could end up with a Statutory Demand from one of the DCA's.

 

You could apply to the courts for a declaration that the a/c is unenforceable and seek costs for your time with a wasted costs order.

[underdog13]

Hi TS,

 

Despite what you say, I'd make a complaint to the FOS about Lloyds, which will cost them for starters.

 

I'd not bother about getting the £2 back, although that is your prerogative. I'd be more concerned in getting this nailed once and for all.

 

If the likes of Robinson Wehaay have it, you could end up with a Statutory Demand from one of the DCA's.

 

You could apply to the courts for a declaration that the a/c is unenforceable and seek costs for your time with a wasted costs order.

 

I've been wondering about that myself, Slick - just a little worried that this course of action might prompt them to look a bit harder for the agreement or even get a little creative, if you know what I mean;)

 

What's the best way to apply to the courts for a declaration of unenforceability? CPR? Or is there another form, etc, to make the application on?

[underdog13]

Btw, the sergeant, have Lloyds sold your debt on to Robinson Way or are they acting as collectors for Lloyds?

[slick132]

What's the best way to apply to the courts for a declaration of unenforceability? CPR? Or is there another form, etc, to make the application on?

 

I'm guessing that the best way would be to seek a ruling along the same lines as the final part of the CPR strategy.

Edited May 10, 2009 by slick132
typo

[thesergeant]

Underdog,

 

Not sure, can I make a demand that they state on what basis they act? All I have had so far is the phone call telling to look out for a letter. I was going to preempt this with the following letter to them ........

 

>>>>>>>>

Ref: Your member of staffs deceitful and harassing phone call of ? 09.

This account is in dispute, which Lloyds TSB are well aware of. They have again forwarded (sold on) this alleged debt (4th time) to you in breach of OFT guidelines and in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

This matter has previously been sold on to the debt collection agencies, BLS, Debt Managers Ltd and AIC also in breach of OFT guidelines. BLS returned the matter to Lloyds TSB on ?, Debt Managers Ltd on ? and AIC on ?.

Since the ? Lloyds TSB have failed to supply lawfully requested information. The Information Commissioners Office (ICO), have already ruled that Lloyds TSB must supply it by ?. They have again failed to do so, which is now subject of a full investigation by the Data Protection Registrar.

Again I reiterate that if you on behalf of Lloyds TSB wish to continue to pursue this matter, I require the information I have previously requested in order to prove the lawfulness of the debt, which I believe has been misrepresented to me:-

 

• A true copy of the Consumer Credit Act agreement
  
• A complete list of transactions and charges, for all accounts whether loan, current or savings, from date of opening, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records, notes, or documents relating to the running of my account or any legal action between you and myself, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records, notes or documents relating to instances of manual intervention or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records or information regarding my accounts held with yourself, such as copies of Consumer Credit Act agreements, account opening applications, overdraft/loan applications or agreements, database entries (or archived copies of) concerning such records, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  

Please note that this letter is a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a “legal right”, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. Lloyds TSB complete failure to supply a copy of the credit agreement or to comply with the Data Protection Act clearly illustrates the misrepresentations. These are legitimate matters of dispute. You (Lloyds TSB) have completely failed to keep to statutory requirements to provide documentary proof of the alleged debt. As such the following apply:-

 

• You may not demand payment on the account nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account
  
• You may not pass the account to any third party
  
• You may not register information in respect of the account to Credit Reference Agencies
  
• You may not issue or update a default notice related to the account
  

I am very disappointed that you have been deceived by Lloyds TSB in this matter. They (Lloyds TSB) have misled me for some considerable time. They have acted dishonestly in not keeping to statutory requirements.

Any further payment requests or demands from you will be referred to the Information Commissioners Office, OFT and Trading Standards. You will also join as a co-defendant with Lloyds TSB in my County Court action.

[thesergeant]

In terms of the complaint to FOS I had a final response from Lloybles over 6 months ago. However I sent them a continuation to my complaint they replied almost 2 months later with the same rambling letter about how they were right and I was wrong and stating that the contents of their previous letter was their final response. Therefore is the date of the final response the first or second letter? Or could I just complain of the current methodology of Lloybles etc.

 

Is FOS the right course of action, it seems that they do not have a good reputation?

 

Or should I complain to all, FOS, OFT, Trading Standards, Information Commisioner etc.

[underdog13]

Thanks Slick:)

[underdog13]

Hi thesergeant,

 

I think the letter from Robinson Way should state whether they have bought the debt - if it doesn't you have every right to ask them on what basis they act.

 

Lloybles seem very fond of their rambling, nonsensical letters, don't they? Goodness knows where they find these people; not sure if they are complete numpties or just have very twisted senses of humour:D

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

I know some say the FOS can be useless, but they do get results in some cases. I think they'd be the best of the bunch you mention.

 

You should also bear in mind that Lloyds and their DCA friends may have a valid point - ie the fact that the debt cannot be enforced does NOT mean it did not or does not exist.

 

It may be that you should seek a declaration from the court as to the a/c's unenforceability, as mentioned in post #15 above.

[thesergeant]

I have sent Robinson Wehaay the letter as in post 16 preempting them. I received their letter which is a "Formal demand" which refers to Lloybles as "Our client".

 

This seems to suggest that they are acting as agents for Lloybles.

 

I will now draft up a compliant to FOS. Is there any harm in also making complaint to everyone else Trading Standards, OFT, Information Commissioner etc etc?

 

Taking to Court for a declaration - I can't seem to find any info on how to do this - any one point me in the right direction please ...........

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

Use Link No2 in my signature which takes you to Pt2537's CPR Strategy thread.

 

After sending the request letters, Pt sets out how to seek a declaration from the court that should stop the OC and their DCA friends harassing you for payment.

[thesergeant]

I have sent my below letter to Robinson Wahey. No reply to date. I have now sent them a you have not replied letter, also containing the stage 1 CPR letter for disclosure of any CCA agreement.

 

I have also sent the stage 1 CPR letter to Lloybles.

 

I'll see what that produces.

 

I still feel a bit nervous about the FOS they don't have a good reputation and what would happen if they throw a wobbler and rule against me!

[thesergeant]

Time to update.

 

The below letter and 1st stage CPR resulted in an acknowledgement from Robinson Waheey stating they would look into it!

 

Today I received

"Having now reviewed your comments, we can advise you that your account had been returned to our client and will no longer be managed by this office."

 

It is now time for stage two CPR on Lloybles as their 21 days are up.

[underdog13]

Well that's a result:) Well done on seeing off Robinson Waheey.