Husband's disciplinary for lateness..

[deathbycrayons]

My husband works at M (edit a large super market chain) and has done for 5 years.

 

He is my carer and in his lunch times he comes home to look after my needs. The company are aware of this.

 

He has had disciplinaries before for lateness and he has explained to them that sometimes he will be one or two minutes late if he needs to deal with an emergency at home.

 

He is never more than 5 minutes late, but he has a disciplinary coming up for lateness again. This is for two instances of lateness over the period of 6 weeks. Each time he was less than 3 minutes late back to work from his lunch.

 

As he is my sole carer, and I am registered disabled, what rights does he have as an employee?

Edited April 30, 2009 by elche
It is safer for all parties, if exact company names are avoided. Che

[BeauBrummie]

Hi dbc,

 

At what stage in the disciplinary cycle is your husband at ? Have verbal or written warnings issued?

 

 

Beau

[deathbycrayons]

He's has two disciplinaries for lateness. He's had a verbal warning, and a written warning. But I'm sure there must be something that says as a carer he is allowed some grace.

[elche]

Hi Deathbycrayons,

 

Sorry i don't have much time now, but there is a statutory right to dependent leave in situations which are genuine emergencies.

 

Whilst this does not extend to relapses from a known underlying condition, if you can show that the situations where he was late were genuinely unforeseeable emergencies you may be able to raise sufficient doubt in your employer's minds to prevent any disciplinary sanction.

 

just google 'Dependent Leave'

 

Good luck

 

Che

[deathbycrayons]

Thank you. I'm concerned as his 'lateness' looks like just that. He never phoned ahead to say he'd be late but then clocking in 3 minutes late you'd hardly expect to have to really. It's only been those occasions and it's such a tiny amount to be late, but his reasons were because he was helping me because of my disability. But he can't prove this. What can we do?

[poppynurse]

I don't think dependant leave would cover being a few minutes late - it's more for dealing with emergencies that require a shift off for example.

 

If your husband is unable to meet your needs in the time available he could try and negotiate a slightly longer break so that he can ensure he is not late back. I don't think he can justifiably argue that he is dealing with an emergency if it only makes him 2 or 3 minutes late regularly.

[Guest wino]

As poppynurse suggests can he ask about getting a longer lunch hour? Maybe an extra half hour or 20 mins and add the time on to the end of his shift.

[elche]

I don't think he can justifiably argue that he is dealing with an emergency if it only makes him 2 or 3 minutes late regularly.

 

Agreed, it must by definition be something unexpected. Thus the more often it happens, the less likely you will be able to argue that it really was an unexpetecd and unforseeable event, and as I said earlier it does not cover regular relapses from a known underlying condition.

 

Was there not a recent case that had something to do with the responsibility to make reasonable adjustments for the carers's of disabled perople? I'll look into this, but maybe other caggers will tell you more before I do.

 

Realistically, he should consider asking for a longer lunch if he needs more time.

 

Che

[OrangePrimate]

Agreed, it must by definition be something unexpected. Thus the more often it happens, the less likely you will be able to argue that it really was an unexpetecd and unforseeable event, and as I said earlier it does not cover regular relapses from a known underlying condition.

 

Was there not a recent case that had something to do with the responsibility to make reasonable adjustments for the carers's of disabled perople? I'll look into this, but maybe other caggers will tell you more before I do.

 

Realistically, he should consider asking for a longer lunch if he needs more time.

 

Che

Hi,

Yes it is the 'coleman' case (cant remember the other parties though!)

As a registered and sole carer, your husband has the same rights to 'reasonable adjustments in the workplace as you yourself would if you where there. this does included allowign time to 'cater' for needs that crop up during the day and scheduled meals/personal cleaning up tasks.

 

Your husband needs to remind them of this and negotiate with the managers that if he does return 5 or 10 mins late that he will tag on the extra minutes at the end of the day or something. They certainly shouldnt be descriminating against him.

 

Would also suggest he contact a Union rep if one on site or a local office for advice (also nothing stopping him joining a Union for future help/back up even if not recognised in workplace !

[deathbycrayons]

Hi,

Yes it is the 'coleman' case (cant remember the other parties though!)

As a registered and sole carer, your husband has the same rights to 'reasonable adjustments in the workplace as you yourself would if you where there. this does included allowign time to 'cater' for needs that crop up during the day and scheduled meals/personal cleaning up tasks.

 

Your husband needs to remind them of this and negotiate with the managers that if he does return 5 or 10 mins late that he will tag on the extra minutes at the end of the day or something. They certainly shouldnt be descriminating against him.

 

Would also suggest he contact a Union rep if one on site or a local office for advice (also nothing stopping him joining a Union for future help/back up even if not recognised in workplace !

 

Thanks. This is interesting. I'm also heavily pregnant too which means there is more demand on my husband at home, the other day I fell and he had to take me to the doctors, luckily he was only a couple of minutes late back to work from his lunch break. But it's things like this that make him 'unreliable' in the eyes of his employer. It's so unfair on him.

[Agathachristie]

Being pregnant is no disability. Furthermore you have to show some sort of harassment and I find that difficult. That would mean that your husband needs to show that other people would be treated different when they are 3 minutes late. I would go and negotiate an extended lunch break, maybe consulting occupational health before the disc. hearing.

Case C-303/06 ECHR

[deathbycrayons]

Being pregnant is no disability. Furthermore you have to show some sort of harassment and I find that difficult. That would mean that your husband needs to show that other people would be treated different when they are 3 minutes late. I would go and negotiate an extended lunch break, maybe consulting occupational health before the disc. hearing.

Case C-303/06 ECHR

 

Err, I know that pregnancy isn't a disability - I have been registered disabled for several years. The pregnancy just makes my condition more difficult to manage.

[Agathachristie]

I would not argue with pregnancy. I am disabled and occupational health knows it. When I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago they were VERY VERY cautious with me and I know the reason is being disabled. If I were your husband I would check with occi health the needs before the hearing starts and then go in the hearing with the new information from occi health. It might be worth to postpone the hearing until occi health was involved. That should work.

[deathbycrayons]

His disciplinary is tomorrow, so I will update when I know how it went.

[deathbycrayons]

Is absence and lateness the same thing? i.e. can a company discipline somebody for a high percentage of absence, and give them a verbal warning, and then 6 months later give them a written warning for lateness? Also can company policy override the law if you sign a contract?

[hitchy1]

Is absence and lateness the same thing? i.e. can a company discipline somebody for a high percentage of absence, and give them a verbal warning, and then 6 months later give them a written warning for lateness? Also can company policy override the law if you sign a contract?

 

The company will treat the issue as one of conduct, and wont need to distinguish between the two.

Suggest he adopts the stance of explaining that due to the circumstances there are times he could be late. He should then explain that he will make up any additional lateness by working additional time. He should also explain that he will contact them if he was expecting to be late. It is only a few minutes but they will be treating everyone the same as they would have chaos if everyone was late.

The fact that he is on a written warning would mean he will receive a final written if they don't accept his explanation. He needs to delicately explain about disability and being a sole carer. Dont be aggressive they wont like it.

[deathbycrayons]

It's been postponed to Thursday as his union rep requested more time to prepare.

[hitchy1]

It's been postponed to Thursday as his union rep requested more time to prepare.

 

The union should be reviewing the law against disability and discrimination particularly with regard to being the main carer.

That's what he pays subscriptions for!!

If he gets a further warning he also needs to appeal against this as if he ever ended in a tribunal sitation he would need to show he exhausted all avenues.

Good Luck

[deathbycrayons]

Thank you

[deathbycrayons]

His disciplinary was today and it went very well. He had a union rep with him who is also a friend of our's. The union rep said himself that because of the way my husband handled it, he may aswell not have been there, and my husband is now becoming a union rep. The outcome of the disciplinary was that they have taken him back to a first written warning, which is fantastic. They have also allowed him to split his shifts, so that he can come home for 3 hours during the day!!

Thanks to all who helped.

[Guest wino]

Thats good news and well done to his employers for realising his predicament and coming to an arrangement to suit all

[Agathachristie]

Congratulations!!

[elche]

Ah... a happy ending for once.

 

Well done, and thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

[hitchy1]

His disciplinary was today and it went very well. He had a union rep with him who is also a friend of our's. The union rep said himself that because of the way my husband handled it, he may aswell not have been there, and my husband is now becoming a union rep. The outcome of the disciplinary was that they have taken him back to a first written warning, which is fantastic. They have also allowed him to split his shifts, so that he can come home for 3 hours during the day!!

Thanks to all who helped.

 

Great outcome. Common sense and doing the right thing prevailed