Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Invalid Default Notices


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4966 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Not sure why you think you have been proven correct, Peter? This is an ongoing debate, and you would get your points across a lot better by being less aggressive.

 

Section 170. Look it up yourself, sir.

The whole section (as I've already pointed out to you elsewhere) Part XI Enforcement of Act (s 161 to s 173) refers to enforcement action which may be taken AGAINST CREDITORS by the OFT, not to action which creditors can take against debtors.

My own research shows that other areas of law CAN be used with the CCA if the CCA des not stipulate the required action. In the Woodchester version I have, for instance, it states:

 

The decision would apply equally where the default notice states too small a sum as required to cure the breach. Here, the

position is that the owner is not bound by that statement by virtue of s 172, but arguably might be estopped at common law

from demanding more;

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 5.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

wolfy

 

if the creditor or dca has started court action, and that termination is on the back of a defective default notice, all the creditor would be able to claim are the arrears up to the default date and nothing else as the account has been terminated

 

ILL SAY IT AGAIN

 

ONLY INFORM THE CREDITOR OF A DEFECTIVE DEFAULT NOTICE AFTER AN N1 CLAIM HAS BEEN ISSUED

Link to post
Share on other sites

i have read and re read all these posts since peter posted recently and it seems that his position is based solely upon one judgement (which i admit i have yet to fully read)

 

however i just don't buy it

Not supprising you didnt buy my arguments on the egg thread either.

 

it is true that the creditor cannot unilaterally (lawfully) terminate an agreement where the debtor is in arrears- and that he is correct - to say that if the DN is invalid- then so is the resultant (attempt at lawful) termination

No

to say however that the law neither tolerates or accommodates a party to an agreement acting " unlawfully" is patent nonsense. - it does- and is what gives rise to the right to the performing party to "elect" (to either hold the lawbreaker to his contract to to relieve himself of any continuing obligations)

The law does not tollerate unlawfulness, the clue is in the name.

To propose that the creditor could "temporarily" repudiate......... remove the benefits of the agreement to the debtor- whilst he then makes however many attempts to serve a valid DN is equally daft.

The benifits were removed due to the breach of the debtor, repudiate does not mean temporarily remove

what sections of the CCA permit this- and which sections of the CCA dictate how many "months" this temporary repudiation may exist until the creditor eventually serves a valid DN?

section 87

What section of the CCA takes the act out of the scope of general contract law

Consumer credit act

what section of the CCA removes the obligations confirmed by high court judges that a man is "bound by his words" in a written communication

The breach is the debtors lets not forget

What section of the CCA states that a creditor may breach the terms of the agreement and not be held to account by the other party

See above

What would have been the purpose of drafting s87/8 if parliament foresaw that any old wording in a DN would do - until the creditor got it right

to enable the debtor to have time to remedy,not to provide a get out clause for the debtor

In short, The CCa does NOT override contract law - and if the creditors actions step outside of the CCA by being unlawful then the performing party then has the right to "elect" either to hold the creditor to the contract- or to relieve himself of his continuing obligations by accepting the creditors unlawful action

Tell the judge that dont tell me you have already.

the "proposition" that a creditor can unlawfully repudiate an agreement- following an invalid DN- and deny the benefit of the rights that the agreement gives to the debtor whilst he make umpteen attempts to serve a valid DN- until he gets it right- is just as barmy!

 

He cant he isnt nothig unlawful about it see above

 

In fact the creditor needs only to ENVINCE the intention not to perform- for the other party to be able to elect.

Garbage

It seems to me that it would be in the interest of creditors to divide discourage and dissuade caggers from defending these unlawful repudiations- and i wonder (yet again) about the motives of those attempting to do this work for the creditors

 

Had a few minutes.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter

 

After having read your posts, is there any point in having a Consumer Credit Agreement?

 

Alan

 

Certainly as protection not a device to evade payment

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi where to start.

The inclusion of the new regulations in the CCA next year are there to clarify the existing rights of the creditor to terminate an open ended agreement.

The appeal in Brandon is not because of the termination this is an accepted fact.

Yes we all know that the repeal of section 127(3) was not retrospective that was not the point.

Yes the creditor can most certainly issue another DN he would have to re file and give time to remedy so he may not want to but yes.

You think he looses entitlement to his money because of what could be a typo.

Peter

 

what is one of them ?????

 

cab

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest HeftyHippo
Not sure why you think you have been proven correct, Peter? This is an ongoing debate, and you would get your points across a lot better by being less aggressive.

 

I don't think he can behave any other way. IMHO he enjoys causing confrontation and controversy by splitting hairs and playing on words. I dont think he's here to 'educate' the poor unfortunates who are not blessed with his gifts, just here to have fun by stirring things up.That's what the evidence suggests anyway.

 

I think his behaviour has all the hallmarks of attention seeking and egotism. Quite why so many indulge him is beyond me.

 

I read about his posts, to the effect that they have the element of seeming truthful which is likely to deceive the reader that the whole of his argument is correct. Whether that is a common comment about his posts, I don't know. I find his interpretation of things rather unique, puzzling even, and he gives me the impression of clutching at the smallest thing that he can use to justify his argument, and proclaims it as cast iron proof. Of course if you dispute what he says, you run the risk of being accused of not being able to see the truth, and that seems sufficient justification to him, to be rude and sarcastic.

 

I'd have some respect for him if he was able to actually discuss a point and answer questions about his point of view in a respectful manner without ducking and diving and without making short flippant remarks that don't answer the questions which were put forward in an attempt to understand his views.

 

Mind you, in my opinion, he doesn't want anyone to understand his views, the more confusion he can create and the less people understand what he is claiming, the more fun he can have by being rude and the more people ask him to explain, the more his ego is massaged by having so many 'followers'. If people understood what he said, he wouldn't be able to feel important or superior to the rest of us.

 

Of course, in response he will probably either be rude and flippant, attempt to say something profund or philosophical, or simply sulk and go away claiming that we're not worthy of his time.

Edited by HeftyHippo
Link to post
Share on other sites

wolfy

 

if the creditor or dca has started court action, and that termination is on the back of a defective default notice, all the creditor would be able to claim are the arrears up to the default date and nothing else as the account has been terminated

 

ILL SAY IT AGAIN

 

ONLY INFORM THE CREDITOR OF A DEFECTIVE DEFAULT NOTICE AFTER AN N1 CLAIM HAS BEEN ISSUED

 

If you have a termination notice how does the progression to litigation change things?

 

If the creditor has defaulted badly and then clearly closed the account with such a notice and the demand of the full balance are they not now prevented from 'taking all of that back' and attempting to start again?

 

Is this advice aimed at ensuring people don't go rushing in and pre-warning creditors of their default errors or is there an important point between confirmed termination and the actual commencement of litigation?

 

Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

we then go onto not the termination but the sale

 

a creditor will terminate an agreement (relationship) prior to selling an account to a dca

 

the dca then has the rights and responsabilities of the agreement

 

the issue is

 

was the agreement terminate and not just assigned under the law of property act 1925

 

remember two types of assignment

 

1/ equitable

2/absolute

 

and was the debtor given a termination notice prior to sale

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

Sorry to just jump in on this interesting thread, but can someone tell me the following:

 

If a DN has to give you 14 clear days, does a letter from a DCA asking for money also have to give 14 clear days to pay, or can they just pick any number of days they like. I.E 5 days therefor 2 days to deliver by post, 2 days to reply, so only 1 day to respond.

 

Thanks and keep up the interesting topic

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Elsa and postggj

 

DCA have not issued me a DN, but lots of threatening letters and SD. Finally got fed up and wrote to OFT and FOS, it must have worked because DCA has wrote back asking to talk. I think really what they want is to look good in front of the OFT and FOS by saying, 'look we are asking to talk'.

 

Anyway i never told the DCA, OFT and FOS about defective DN, but in letter from DCA they are asking why i think DN is defective and i owe nothing.

 

Not sure how to reply to this, if i do not reply to them, then i look bad in eyes of OFT, FOS. If i do reply what do i say without showing my hand.

 

I should actually be writting this in my own post :???:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a few minutes.

 

Peter

 

 

i did not have ANY comments regarding the Egg matter- as you falsely state

 

my sole contribution with regard to the Egg matter was the way in which you slagged off PT and called him a liar when he said the appeal was pending- and at which time due to confidentiality he was not able to provide the further proof you demanded a matter for which you never apologised despite your erroneous allegations

 

nor have you ever aplogised to this forum for your comments on the trade forums in which you heavily criticised this forum and its posters- and yet you return to it to try to create more unrest and confusion

Edited by diddydicky
Link to post
Share on other sites

if you have had a default notice from a dca

 

they mean squat

 

only the original creditor can issue a default notice

 

to be accurate- a DCA- or anyone for that matter- acting on behalf of a creditor CAN serve a DN- provided that the DN is compliant and contains the name and address of both creditor and debtor- it would be valid

Link to post
Share on other sites

ill give you all a typical example

 

say cabot default you over a barclaycard debt,

you rectify the default by clearing any arears within the presumed 14 days so no default exsists as such

 

now where cabot fail is they dont offer or issue credit cards

 

ANSWERS ON A POSCARD

Link to post
Share on other sites

may i ask then how a dca can issue a default notice when the agreement has allready been defaulted prior to sale to a dca

 

just to clarify.....................

 

my point was not related to an already defaulted or sold agreement....... merely to the point that the Dn does not HAVE to be isued or served by the creditor alone- which is what i thought you were implying

 

any dca solicitor butcher, baker or OAP acting on his behalf can do so

 

just thought i would make that clear :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

when an account is assigned to a dca, the dca takes on the rights and duties of the agreement and original creditor

 

an account can only be defaulted once

 

sorry to disagree again - but this is incorrect

 

if an invalid DN is served- and before the debtor has accepted it as an unlawful repudiation either by words or deeds- the creditor may indeed "save the day" by serving a second valid DN (IMO)

 

what he cannot do however (IMO) is serve a second DN "post termination"

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4966 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...