NW overdraft account passed to KPR, then Fredricksons and now threats of Litigation and 2nd Charge on my home from KPR!

[meerkatsmimm]

OK, thanks again UF, your time this afternoon has been invaluable x.

[UnitedFront]

OK, thanks again UF, your time this afternoon has been invaluable x.

 

You're most welcome

 

Feel free to tickle the scales if it takes your fancy

 

UF

[meerkatsmimm]

Ok Folks - an update on this one from the last week. Please bare with me, because this is a mess.

 

• This started as a conversation on the phone to sort a change of address problem, in order to get our SAR sent out.
  
• In branch the NW refused to accept change of address document because the signature box had crosses in it.
  
• Phoned NW directly to explain this to be told that my address was showing as that of my mothers home (we did have nationwide mortgage and accounts, but all ties were ended financially in 2004 and they spent 1 year getting things put right within NW, because they were so slow on the uptake). My hubbys address also different to our current one, even though this is a joint account. Been writing to them for 6 months with letters from our new address with both signatures. They state that I changed my address to my mothers address last year, and that they have recieved proof of the same. My question was would I not need to have given permission for this change, given that it is a joint account - no answer.
  
• Get passed to collections who explain that they say they have passed over / assigned the account (overdraft account) to Fredericksons for 6 months. They have refused to confirm whether the assignment is absolute or equitable. They say they will take this account back from Fredericks in 6 months if I do not reach an agreement with them and it will be passed to the next DCA for a further 6 months, then they will sign the debt off to tax and sell it on. They say they advised us in 3 letters dated on the day it was 'passed' over , 1 a day later and one a week later – To date we have received none of these. Neither has anything been received to my mothers address or to our last address as we have a mail re-direction set up.
  
• The NW rep I spoke to didn’t appear to know the difference between equitable and absolute. But seemed to think that equitable meant that they, NW, could pursue us through the courts for a 2nd charge on our home even though Frederickson have the account? The NW rep also said that they would give Frederickson 6 months from the date it was passed over to obtain the full balance and if this hadn’t happened they, NW, would pass it on to a 2nd DCA. The rep also said that it wasn’t their policy to sell a debt whilst the bank charges issue remained unresolved at the court. They also seem to think that the court case would remain unresolved for 12 months when NW would then sell the debt on in full and claim the tax benefit.
  
• NW appears to have Mr Meerkat at the new address but not Mrs Meerkat. However, when taking us through security a few weeks back they have accepted Mrs Meerkat at the new address (our current address). But still they are refusing to provide us with our Subject Access Request until further proof is given. This they are demanding in the form of a signature. We have advised the bank on more than one occasion of the change of address. For some reason they won’t acknowledge this, regardless of our constant letters each month quoting this same address.
  
• We have applied to be considered for £1 payments on this account early in the year - the CCCS would only supply us with letter stating we cant get involved but please accept £1 for this account; this has been refused out of hand. I asked yesterday for our account to be considered as a hardship case at which point reference was made as to the previous handling of the account which prevents them from treating you as a hardship case. Apparently we handled our account well and paid our bills - things do change though.
  
• They also went on to say I had substantial funds in an e-savings account with them - I was shocked any said where? It turns out that they still have my name linked to my mothers bank account!!! We dont think this is the case (it couldnt be it was all amended years ago), but its very convenient that they have made this link and know my mother has some money that perhaps they were hoping we could get!
  
• Also explained that the account was in dispute to unlawful penalty charges, she said that wasnt the case and quoted that they had the supprt of the FSA on this. I stated about what the FSA said in Jul 08 about hardship cases and she disagreed that we were hardship cases - not according to the Nationwides policies! When asked what timeframe had you to be in hardship for before you could be considered, she explain there was no time frame - but explained nothing else. So they are making it up as they go along.
  
• We had received a letter from KPR offering a reduced settlement figure. Mr Meerkat telephoned them to find out more and to see if they would still try and collect on an account apparently no longer owned by the NW. He was advised that they know what mortgage we have outstanding (they were 20-25k out), advised also the value of our house which takes no account of the current downturn in the housing market. They also advised that they were returning the account to Nationwide, whose solicitors would be in proceeding with litigation immediately and that they would have no problems obtaining a CCJ and charging order on our home. When Mr Meerkat pointed out the value of your home had dropped considerably the KPR rep begged to differ.
  

From the time spent on the phone, we gleaned that they have only transfered the account by equitable assignment. They also have messed up with the addresses and are obviously trying something on with my mothers account.

 

 

 

What concerns me is that this is an overdraft facility and not regulated by the CCA. We are going back in branch to get the addresses sorted and find out how they have managed to have a financial link between us and my mother.

 

 

What can we do here as this is confusing to say the least?

 

 

Do Fredricksons have it (have had no response from them in anyway and it was passed over to them almost 3 weeks ago) - I was not informed about this until yesterday mind you..

 

 

Do KPR have it, because they tried to take payment on it yesterday to settle the account and when I explained I couldnt pay anything, they then said the accounts would be handed back immediately to NW and that the next people we would hear from would be NW solictors who would take us to court, get a ccj and a charging order on our home - which according to them is loaded with equity, they state 60-70k (in reality owe £195k, paid £200k, bigger house next door unsold at £195k for 6 months).

 

 

Or do Nationwide still have it? And how can they all be discussing it, when someone else has been assigned it and a 3rd company (KPR, so still nationwide) are trying to collect on it???

 

 

All assistance as always appreciated.

 

 

meerkat x

Edited May 14, 2009 by meerkatsmimm

[citizenB]

I think you do have some protection under the CCA, I asked this question regarding current accounts a little while back. I will toddle off and find my post BRB.

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks CB, scales are due a good tipping from us over here!

[citizenB]

Right well the question I asked was..Are current accounts and overdrafts covered under the CCA 1974

 

The answers were as follows:

 

The answer is yes (and no). Overdrafts are exempt from the provisions of Part V (ie ss 55-73 - see s74) of the Act. Note that, in particular, s61 is in Part V.

 

and

 

OVERDRAFTS and the Consumer Credit Act

 

CCAs and overdrafts

 

Bank Account CCA

 

CCA and Overdrafts - The Final Word?

 

and

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

Perhaps you can get some information from that lot.

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks CB, ill have a look at those now. I think you might have sent me those first 3 links before, but ill certainly refresh myself with them.

 

meerkat x

[meerkatsmimm]

hello guest, dont be shy!

[meerkatsmimm]

Anyone wish to comment, CB has been wonderful with this but has suggested I put this up on the forum for other to review.

 

Thanks x

[citizenB]

You might find this post of interest.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1995545.html

 

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks CB, thats good info on the hardship cases. I also had a read through the other links and it appears they will have to provide some kind of document in court in relation to the OD, which is interesting.

[citizenB]

Thanks CB, thats good info on the hardship cases. I also had a read through the other links and it appears they will have to provide some kind of document in court in relation to the OD, which is interesting.

 

That is good news

[citizenB]

This is a must read in respect of your Subject Access Request.

 

Read the link in post 1 first in particular section 2 - identity , then the following comments.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/199553-data-protection-sar-guidance.html

 

HTH

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi All,

 

Received my SAR pack yesterday.

 

Very interesting and will take a while to get through it all.

 

At least £1k in charges over the years so thats something to fight them on.

 

They also have documented a CRA search where they have searched in April and know the outstanding balance on my mortgage, plus they also conclude that my house has £40k of equity (£30k more than I paid last June), and this doesn't take into account the early repayment fees I'll get charged by my mortgage company which comes to about £10k - meaning if I'm lucky to sell for what I paid for the house I'll have about £1-2k left for creditors.

 

Can they do this kind of search?

 

At least this explains why KPR thought I had loads of equity to get a charge against.

 

Meerkatsmimm--

Edited May 29, 2009 by meerkatsmimm

[babybear39]

Hi All,

 

Received my SAR pack yesterday.

 

Very interesting and will take a while to get through it all.

 

At least £1k in charges over the years so thats something to fight them on.

 

What has really distressed me though is that they have given me BACS info showing when my DD have failed. The distressing info is that I've got other people's bank/credit card info:

 

Credit card number

surname

sort code

bank account number

 

Others also include:

title

christian names

payment amount

 

Surely this is a breach of something in Data Protection regs??

 

And who all has my personal info??

 

They also have documented a CRA search where they have searched in April and know the outstanding balance on my mortgage, plus they also conclude that my house has £40k of equity (£30k more than I paid last June), and this doesn't take into account the early repayment fees I'll get charged by my mortgage company which comes to about £10k - meaning if I'm lucky to sell for what I paid for the house I'll have about £1-2k left for creditors.

 

Can they do this kind of search?

 

At least this explains why KPR thought I had loads of equity to get a charge against.

 

Meerkatsmimm--

 

Report them to the ICO immediately. Report them also to TS and the OFT for threatening you with a CO. Get your MP involved as well.

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks Babybear,

 

I will be doing this on Tuesday, I think their handling of this is all very wrong.

[babybear39]

They're a bank/DCA what do expect

 

Good luck, best wishes and have a great weekend. Don't let these numpties spoil your precious time

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks BB,

 

You have a good weekend also!

 

Funny thing is, the SAR has also thrown up more about my NWCC, which could be interesting....

[babybear39]

Do elaborate please...

[harrassed senior]

yes please, just getting settled for a good read

 

I am dealing with Nationwide at the moment, and they are 'all over the place' first saying one thing, then next time the very opposite, so I am sure they are either very confused, or are doing this deliberately to confuse us mere mortals!!

[meerkatsmimm]

Hey BB and HS,

 

Here is my post from my NW CC thread:

 

Another little update folks,

 

Subject Access Request arrived with some interesting information.

 

My NWCC (the 'agreement' of which is shown above), is what they supplied info on under the Subject Access Request. The above 1 page was shown in the docs received with this package, nothing more, which I find a little strange.

 

In addition, this is the agreement for my original card from NW, which was marked 'settled' in 2007 due to it be stolen. I never signed a new agreement and the Subject Access Request shows no evidence of another 'agreement', I know I never signed anything.

 

Then in the Subject Access Request amongst all my other statements is 6 months of paperwork showing this card number with a zero balance and settled. They have crossed over with the new card, duplicate statements, one for one number, the other for my originally applied for card.

 

Now, does that mean that if I end up in court and present the 'agreement' above which has no prescribed terms and a copy of these statements showing a zero balance, then in truth I shouldnt have been paying anything on this account for years because the balance is shown as zero and the account should be zero'd.

 

I understand the 'you used it and spent on it' arguement that may come from a judge, but surely no enforceable agreement, no signed anything for the card number I currently hold and multiple statements showing that I owe the NW nothing on this account - means they cannot enforce the debt, and perhaps (perhaps I say...) I should be entitled to all monies paid on this account in recent years.

 

No prescribed terms - well as far as I was concerned there was no interest on this credit card....

 

Ideas/ thoughts?

 

Thanks, meerkat x

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

I say nothing signed on this account - I mean to say, the current account number I have has never had anything signed against it - it was simply issued.

 

The application form is my old number, which tallies with the 6 months of statements showing zero balance and my credit file also shows the account as being settled.

 

meerkat x

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi Folks another update as we have received more in from NW in response to our SAR.

 

They state in their letter to me that they have been unable to locate any applications/agreements with regards my current accounts. This is something they regret...

 

In response to my 3rd request for them to confirm my CC 'agreement'

 

"This was included in the original request. A further copy has been included...."

 

And further into the binder I go, and find a title page called 'Credit Card Application Form' in big letters.

 

Then I turn this over to find the same 1 page tosh application that they have sent in response to my CCA and CPR letter 1 requests. They have also confirmed this two further times as being my 'credit card agreement'.

 

No prescribed terms, no repayment methods, no mention of interest, no T&C's other than PPI info, etc.

 

Here it is from my NW CC thread....

 

 

In terms of my overdrafts, they have no documents showing these being set up initially, and no copies of any requests for me to set these up in the first place. They have internal messages showing a response to my so-called request for an overdraft, but no evidence of my messages to them. They have two or three letters stating that the overdrafts were chaging to reducing overdrafts, but like I said, nothing to suggest I even asked for these in the first place.

 

So, No CA, just an unenforceable 1 page application which they keep referring to as the 'agreement'....

 

No application forms/agreements from when the account was opened, so no proof of the T&C's I agreed to (or didnt)...

 

No proof I ever requested an overdraft on either account or proof that it was even me who opened these accounts...

 

What can I do? Apparently, KPR issued one account to Roxburghe DCA and the other account to Fredricksons DCA - very good of them, obviously to cause maximum hassle and stress from two different parties....

 

Never heard anything from Fredricksons to date, apparently they have been handling it for two months and Roxburghe did get in touch, with a very polite letter, even telling me that if the account was in dispute then they would take no further action upon proof of the same. Needless to say they got the 'account in dispute letter' amongst others and they wrote back to say the account has been handed back to the NW. Not what I expected at all.

 

No notices of assignment, in call logs they referred to the accounts as being 'passed' to the DCA's - how vague can they be?

 

Suggestions as to go forward from here please folks? They seem to have very little on us in terms of enforceable documents, and we are talking about a 5 figure sum owed.

 

Many thanks,

 

meerkat x

[babybear39]

Have issued an LBA to them?

[meerkatsmimm]

In terms of what BB?

 

I done a LBA for SAR and have just sent CPR letter 2.

 

However, they have confirmed many times that the above application is my agreement.

 

Do you mean a LBA to put the accounts back to zero and sort the credit files otherwise I am going to court?

[babybear39]

Yes.