Response to CCA request **WON**

[craigers]

Received this today. I had a laugh. Your thoughts please... The card was taken out in 1998...

 

Covering letter

 

App form - very difficult to read my copy let alon the scan

 

The executed agreement pages 1-8

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[craigers]

Anybody?

 

I find section 6 of the covering letter interesting. Why does my statement say a min payment of 5%? Anyone come across this kind of thing before?

[pinky1977]

Hiya

 

im quite new to this as well . is it an agreement or application form ?

application forms are usually not worth anything

[craigers]

Its an app with T&Cs made to look like an agreement. Methinks.

[pinky1977]

hehee

 

then send them the thanks for the unreadable application form letter

 

pinky

[questioning]

Hiya

 

im quite new to this as well . is it an agreement or application form ?

application forms are usually not worth anything

 

An application form can be an enforceable agreement BUT only if it contains the prescribed terms.

this from what I can see is as you say Craigers,

an application form with no prescribed terms and current T&c's.

Edited April 1, 2009 by questioning
spelling as usual, blamed on the keyboard

[craigers]

I've sent a SAR which they should've received yesterday (I haven't checked yet). I've asked for everything on the account including a copy of the signed executed agreement. I think I'll wait for the docs they send me before my next action.

[panty54]

subbing

[seriously fed up]

If anyone has a minute, you might want to look at what I got today from BoS see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/192506-cca.html

My own account is just a little bit older than this - 1994 - but what I got through the post today helpfully had

 

1. the word "Application" printed at the top
   
2. no required terms
   
3. it did though refer to credit limit - but this was the credit limit that I HAD asked for when putting in the application, which takes us back full circle.
   

Also they had helpfully printed the same form on both sides.Not even any T&Cs

[craigers]

Bugger it, I'm gonna send another account in dispute letter. Any pointers as to what I should put in it?

[questioning]

You'll find lots of examples if you do a search of the forum.

Pick the one best suited, edit if need be and fire away.

For example, this is copied from the forum, Apologies to who ever wrote it I didn't keep a note of your identity.

 

I would refer you to Sections 61, 65 and 127 of the CCA 1974, and the recent binding decisions in the high court and court of appeal regarding the lack of prescribed terms in regulated consumer agreements. I refer the the cases of Wilson V FCT and Wilson V Hurstanger.

Both these BINDING judgements hold that if a regulated agreement is missing any prescribed terms, or if the terms are misstated then the agreement is irredeemably unenforceable.

In Wilson V Hurstanger it is stated that the prescribed terms should be within the signature document and not in any other document. I believe that the document sent to me with my signature on does not contain the prescribed terms and as such is unenforceable.

 

This is an intersesting site to look at. You'll find some good bits of info here......Francis Bennion - Home Page

Edited April 6, 2009 by questioning
Added stuff

[questioning]

Another example Craigers...................

 

This is from Francis Bennion author of the CCA

 

"As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn't be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I'm glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody's human rights were infringed.

[amsgirl]

subbing

[craigers]

I initially planned to just use the unenforceable agreement as leverage to claim back charges and interest, but now I'm not so sure. I want to pay off what I owe, but I am so peed at the way these big financial institutions dictate our lives and can ruin them on a whim. Should I go for the jugular and flatly refuse to pay anything?

[questioning]

I initially planned to just use the unenforceable agreement as leverage to claim back charges and interest, but now I'm not so sure. I want to pay off what I owe, but I am so peed at the way these big financial institutions dictate our lives and can ruin them on a whim. Should I go for the jugular and flatly refuse to pay anything?

 

Do you mean bank charges that have been found to be unfair?

If so you can do that anyway.

[craigers]

I've claimed x amount in charges, some from the pre-2006 ruling, some from after. BOS offered to repay the difference between the pre-2006 charges incurred and the post-2006 charge level. I've refused it.

 

I'm really unsure what to do. Basically I've been on an arrangement to pay of some sort for almost 4 years. Initially I was making token payments. After a few months I moved house so my debt counsellor could no longer deal, and despite informing BOS, I received no statements or correspondence of any sort from BOS, and my access to internet banking was showing as suspended.

 

I continued to pay the token sum each month and after 2 years I found a work around to the suspension to internet banking. On checking my account I realised I'd been charged over £2k in interest and charges. I then started on a new DMP and began paying much healthier sums every month. BOS even halted interest and charges for the next 18 or so months.

 

About 8 months ago they started charging interest and charges again. They have really been mucking me about accepting my DMP proposal then a month later saying its not enough, accepting it, saying its not enough, etc... What really worried me was that they had started showing negative info on my CRFs.

 

I spoke to the FOS to see if they would take my case on if I had no success myself. They agreed it would fall under their remit.

 

So I wrote to BOS asking repayment of the charges only. I deliberately didn't ask for any interest as I thought it best to tackle through the FOS. BOS offered the difference as explained above, a sum which was about 1/3 of what I claimed.

 

I CCAd BOS and the docs above are what I received.

 

So basically, I need to work out if I claim the charges again (but I'd be asking for contractual interest on top), do I flatly refuse to pay anything as they have not got an enforceable agreement, or do I go to the FOS and claim the 2k interest and charges, and also the interest and charges of the last 8 months?

[craigers]

I've received an acknowledgement from BOS to say they are processing my request. They have requested I contact them to ensure they know exactly what my requirements are (which were clearly listed in my SAR letter). They also say

 

"HBOS plc is not obliged to supply records held in paper format if they do not form part of a relevant filing system".

 

Any thoughts?

[craigers]

Hooraah! Continued paying through my DMP but BOS have refunded all of the overlimit and late fees both pre and post 2006 OFT ruling as a gesture of goodwill because they value their relationship with me. It amounts to somewhere between £800 and £900. Ya dancer!

 

Hmmm... Do I go on and seek further refunds for interest?

[craigers]

I have asked for the interest to be refunded. They said no. So I have now sent an ultimatum- refund the interest and some additional charges, and remove negative info from my CRFs, in return for continued payment, or write off the balance and get no more money.

 

If they say no again, do you think I should start court proceedings?

[craigers]

Great news! My perseverance paid off. On top of the refund mentioned above, BOS have refunded me all the additional charges and interest I asked for. In total thats over £2,600 refunded- more than half of my current debt. What a weight off my shoulders.

 

Oh! Almost forgot. They're removing the late payment markers from my credit reference files too.

 

Ya dancer!!

[**Tilly**]

Way to go craigers, nice one

[sea-sidelady]

That is fantastic. Well done.

 

I have changed your title to *won* for you.

[middenmess]

Hi Craigers--was that refunded against your credit card balance or credited into your nominated bank account?

 

The reason I ask is because that is your money that they have taken unlawfully and should be yours to use as you wish.

 

If you pursue the enforceability of the cc and eventually get that proven, then you would have possibly 'missed out' on having those pennies in your pocket.

 

Just a thought!

[craigers]

midden, it was refunded against my card balance. i'm perfectly happy about that. my agreement isn't enforceable but it was not my intention to shirk on money i spent. i just felt it was very unethical and irresponsible of BOS to charge me over £2000 in interest and charges when over the same period i made token payments totalling only £50-odd. i'd rather they defaulted the account than allow the balance of the account to explode like they did.

 

its only thanks to CAG and the knowledge and encouragement of its members that this burden has been lifted. i will definately be making a donation to CAG in the near future.

 

CAG must go on FOREVER!!!

[rowly_c]

Do you have any of the letter templates? I would like to do the same with my egg loan which had over £1600 in interest charges whilst I was paying a good amount each month through a dmp £47 per month for over 4 years, whats the best way to go about it? I'm happy to keep paying I pay £56 a month now but want the balance to reflect the true debt without this interest.