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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Cy, have you looked at the thread which is debating/dissecting the Manchester Test Case ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case.html

 

As claimants in the case above.. the debtors were responsible for proving their claims.

 

In your case, it was for the Bank to do so. The Test case had nothing to do with documents required for court.. only for the the s78 request.

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Cy, have you looked at the thread which is debating/dissecting the Manchester Test Case ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case.html

 

As claimants in the case above.. the debtors were responsible for proving their claims.

 

In your case, it was for the Bank to do so. The Test case had nothing to do with documents required for court.. only for the the s78 request.

 

Hi yes, I have put a little SOS there, for clarification ..... if such a thing is possible at this stage in the debate!

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Yep indeed.... Didnt I read on here or the original email notification message that the judge had had an email with details of the manchester cases that morning... was this a directive or the actual copy of judgment in which case he/she surely wouldnt have had time to dissect it properly prior to your trial?......... or did I just dream all the above :-(

 

S.

 

i'm no expert but is the judge any more entitled to refer to stated cases than anyone else without you having previously been notified of his intention to refer to those cases- so that you can counter his arguments?

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i'm no expert but is the judge any more entitled to refer to stated cases than anyone else without you having previously been notified of his intention to refer to those cases- so that you can counter his arguments?

 

I wondered about that and did question it, but obviously not forcefully enough!

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I wondered about that and did question it, but obviously not forcefully enough!

 

as i said i'm no expert and whilst the judge is free to refer to his white book green book or whatever other book he has reference to , i am sure he cannot

 

a/ argue the claimants claim for him

 

b/ refer to cases stated for the reasons i previously mentioned

 

 

happy to be proved wrong on that one but i doubt it

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Hello cymruambyth

 

What rotten luck not the start to 2010 you needed ,

however the advice is comming in thick and fast, you

are not alone lots of folks willing to help and support

you.

 

Best Regards

 

Tonks:)

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hi everyone thanks for the support and advice. i have sent for the N460 and will post for advice when I receive it.

Should I enquire about the transcript now or can I wait until the form arrives and I have some idea about what I am going to do? Don't want to pay out money I haven't got !

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Hello C!

 

hi everyone thanks for the support and advice. I have sent for the N460 and will post for advice when I receive it.

 

Should I enquire about the transcript now or can I wait until the form arrives and I have some idea about what I am going to do? Don't want to pay out money I haven't got !

Sadly, the Transcript will be needed ASAP, so it is something that you need to crack on with ASAP.

 

The way it works is you can only use an Authorised Transcriber, but there are many on the Court lists, and their prices do not seem to vary a great deal. There is one I can recommend, only because they have been helpful to several Caggers. I have no link to them other than this. I will PM the details.

 

The Transcript itself is effectively divided into two sections:

 

(1.) The Hearing (without the Judgment).

 

(2.) The Judgment (without the Hearing).

 

The minimum you will need for an Appeal is (2.) The Judgment, although I would advise getting (1.) The Hearing as well, because that is where a lot of the chit chat went on, where you can point to, and quote, specific areas where the Judge misdirected him/her self.

 

There can only ever be one Judgment Transcription, because that is only ever done once, because that has to be approved by the Judge before it is released. In effect, the Judge can and will tweak that and I'm sure it can and will deviate from the actual words spoken and initially transcribed.

 

Anyway, once the Judgment has been done, a 2nd version is not allowed mainly because the Judge won't authorise a 2nd one.

 

The Hearing Transcription can be done more than once, i.e. by two different transcribers, but given the cost are likely to be similar, it is usually cheaper to simply buy a copy from the Transcriber who has already done it. Main problem is knowing if it has been done already!

 

In your case, it's probably unlikely that the opposition will bother with a Transcription, but they will almost certainly want a copy of the Judgment if you Appeal. They will have to buy that from your Transcriber, if so, but that is another matter, and nothing worth getting excited about. In effect, it's a little extra money for that Transcriber. Indeed, they may not bother, because they will get a copy of the Judgment in your Appeal papers anyway. It really depends on how keen they are to see you off at the Appeal, i.e. if they want a copy sooner rather than later.

 

The cost depends on the length of the whole Hearing (i.e. Hearing plus Judgment), and the number of spoken words. The quality of the Tape Recording is also an issue, but you won't know that until the Transcriber moans about it!

 

I can't say a cost, but if the Hearing was, say, 3 hours, then the approximate costs would be £400 for the Hearing and maybe £120 for the Judgment. I could be miles out, but it's in that sort of ball park. If your Hearing was only an hour or two, adjust down, and you won't be far out.

 

To organise the Transcript, you need to firstly select a Transcriber, then download and complete Form EX107:

 

Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance

 

Complete that, and submit to the Court, and they should then release the Tapes directly to your Transcriber.

 

Then the key issues you need to get your head around are:

 

(A.) The Appellant's Notice.

 

Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance

 

(B.) The Grounds for Appeal.

 

This is key, and will be the key legal points to support your Appeal. Start working on this straight away, and people here will, I am sure, give you all the help you need. Read more about Appeals here:

 

PART 52 - APPEALS - Ministry of Justice

 

And the related Practice Directions here...

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION 52 – APPEALS - Ministry of Justice

 

(C.) The Route for Appeal.

 

This is just the technical route, and will depend on various factors, seniority of Judge, type of Judgment etc. Read all about that here:

 

Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance

 

The following link may also help if you need any CPR Forms:

 

CPR Forms:

 

CPR - Forms - Ministry of Justice

 

OK, now the serious bit, you have just 21 days to submit your Appeal, otherwise you will be out of time, and then into the more hostile zone of making an Appeal Out of Time. You need to avoid that!

 

The main things you will need to collect and collate within the 21 days and include in your Appeal Bundle are the following:

 

The Appeal Bundle

 

(i.) Appellant's Notice.

 

(ii.) Grounds for Appeal, usually included at the end of the above.

 

(iii.) Skeleton Argument (but this can follow +14 days afterwards, so long as you get the main Bundle in within the 21 days).

 

(iv.) The N24 Order of the Judgment (which you should be getting soon anyway).

 

(v.) A completed/sealed/signed copy of Form N460 by the Judge, i.e. where the Judge has stated their reasons for refusing the Appeal.

 

(vi.) The Transcript (preferably Judgment and Hearing).

 

(vii.) Appeal Supporting Documents. That would be everything in effect, bound into chronological order, and page numbered into a 2nd section where anything key can be referenced by your Appellant's Notice or your Grounds for Appeal.

 

The above is not as bad as it looks. The task is mainly a case of getting it all done and collated within the 21 day time frame. The actual doing is not that bad...the N161 is just a Form, and the Grounds for Appeal is just a one or two page document, similar to a Defence, but setting out the key legal points. The rest is mainly bumf, most of which you already have from the Hearing.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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N460's delivery is lost in the snow!!!!

Any advice on my grounds for appeal will be gratefully received!

1. incorrect clauses from t&cs listed on the POC and their change permitted by the DJ

2. DN delivered correctly (!?!) but included charges. This was ignored.

3. Manchester discussed and application form with copy typed t&cs was acceptable.

I'll add more when I find them

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The N460 will turn up in due course. It's really the transcript that you need to get organised asap, Cy - that will show you exactly what grounds to appeal on. Have you downloaded the applic. form or contacted a transcriber? In view of the weather, it may be possible to fax/email info.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Oh, poor you! The whole world seems to have come to a standstill. Don't worry, the courts should make allowance for it in permitting some flexibility on deadlines.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Hello C!

 

It would be wise I think to tell the Court that you are going to Appeal, and add that due to the weather and now a lack of electricity, you will have trouble getting everything ready within the 21 day deadline...although you will submit the Appeal on time, but it may not be complete!

 

That then sets the stage, and nobody can accuse you of making anything up as the deadline looms. It will be on record, and you can show that you advised them well ahead of the deadline...rather than leaving it until the last minute to tell them, which won't look so convincing when the sun is shining and we have nice weather (some hope!).

 

Cheers,

BRW

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N460's delivery is lost in the snow!!!!

Any advice on my grounds for appeal will be gratefully received!

1. incorrect clauses from t&cs listed on the POC and their change permitted by the DJ

2. DN delivered correctly (!?!) but included charges. This was ignored.

3. Manchester discussed and application form with copy typed t&cs was acceptable.

I'll add more when I find them

 

the top one hopefully (when you have the transcript) will be that the judge mis directed himself

 

maybe even that he adopted the claimants argument!

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Would the court allow you to fax a copy of the document ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hello CB!

 

Most Courts would be willing to fax a copy of, say, Form N460, because it's usually just a single page.

 

But the rest is all down to cymruambyth to organise, I regret. The Transcript(s), for example, do not exist until the tapes are sent to the transcriber to create...and the Judgment copy has to go back to the Court for the Judge to read, and then fiddle with until it sounds more flattering for them before their superiors read it! That can take time, particularly if the Judge is tardy in dealing with it.

 

Keep it all in writing, and make a note of all dates so that any blocking tactics by the Judge (to delay things and put pressure on the 21 day timescale) can be shown by the paperwork.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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A quick question re the production of original agreements.

Original court order was for the production of the original, was then amended to state 'where such documents are in the possession or control of the party relying on them'

Does this have any bearing on grounds for appeal?

Another question: if points were in WS but not raised in court, can they be used in an appeal?

Thank you

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A quick question re the production of original agreements.

Original court order was for the production of the original, was then amended to state 'where such documents are in the possession or control of the party relying on them'

Does this have any bearing on grounds for appeal?

Another question: if points were in WS but not raised in court, can they be used in an appeal?

Thank you

 

You would think so. If the documents were in their possession.. What was their problem bringing them to court ??

 

I think so long as they were in the original witness statement/ defence then you can still rely on that information/evidence. It is NEW evidence that might be difficult to introduce.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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