help council tax overpayment being clawed back!!

[debt4get]

when my wife and myself became ill and had to go on invalidity benefit applied for council tax benefit and was given a rebate of some 300 pounds and was told that our liability was nil for this year, this was after supplying council with all income, bank statements etc

when cheque came rang council, and asked is this correct? are you sure I am entitled to this? answer yes

2 months later a demand for 300 pound for overpayment, as council had made a mistake calculating benefit

went down to council only to be told it has to be repayed, as it was an overpayment even though it was due to their error, as we were coming towards the end of the year the least they would take is 70 pound a month which we have to fund out of our benefit, as you can imagine this does not leave us with a lot of disposable income, with all other bills to pay.

question

is it legal?

can they really demand this amount back every month?

any help gratefully excepted

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Now I'm not sure how this applies to council tax but with housing benefit over payments, If you couldn't have known a mistake was made and it's their error you shouldn't be penalised for it.

 

I'll have a look at my paperwork and see if the same applies to council tax.

 

fox

[debt4get]

according to council and I have had a look at paperwork it does state on theirs that any overpayment can and will be taken back, what I cannot make them understand is it is there error that caused this problem, and I dont see why we should be penalised for their incompetence,

even put in a formal complaint against the person who originally caused the problem, the result.... sod all... sorry it was a genuine mistake.... now pay us back

[debt4get]

sorry again I remember from the letter it stated... if I had looked carefully enough then I would have seen that they hadnt taken my wifes inv ben. into account and this is why we were issued with a zero balance.. why the hell should i have to check every piece of paper they send me to ensure they have done their job correctly? apart from which the statements they send are extremely difficult to work out without knowing the law

[silverfox1961]

You have a right of appeal. I will print the rules below.

 

Under the housing benefit regulations. all overpayments are legally recoverable

 

Unless The overpayment was caused by an official error - this means the overpayment was due to something done, or not done, by us (the council) or the DWP

 

and You, or someone acting on your behalf, (E.G An appointee), or someone to whom the payment was made, (E.G Your landlord), could not have reasonably been expected to know that an overpayment was being made, at the time the payment was notified or received.

 

and You, or someone acting on your behalf, (E.G An appointee), or someone to whom the payment was made, (E.G Your landlord), did not contribute to the errors being made.

 

Was your complaint a first stage complaint or did you escalate it higher?

 

If the response was from a second stage complaint, you have the right to complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

fox

[debt4get]

I did appeal (first stage) but the letter they sent back stated that the fault lay with myself as I did not check the paperwork correctly when they sent out the zero balance, I was told if I had checked it properly I would have seen that my wifes money hadnt been taken into account.

Now looking carefully at the documents sent I can see that wifes inv ben had not been added, however, these documents are not the easiest things to follow, my argument is why should I have to check their work? I dont get paid for checking their work, but if they want to employ me to check that every demand they send out is correct I will be only to happy to comply.

but seriously, they put all the blame onto me!! its bloody unbelievable

have just emailed my local mp and councillors to see if they can help but aint holding out much hope

[silverfox1961]

That is your exact argument. How are you supposed to know the rules they apply to benefit claims.

 

If you don't want to name the council that's fine but it would help if you did. You can send me a private message if you want to.

I have some more advice should the need arise

 

fox

[Conniff]

according to council and I have had a look at paperwork it does state on theirs that any overpayment can and will be taken back,

 

 

That is what gets me, 'will', they do have discretion just don't want to use it.

 

As for nameing them - too right they should be named.

[Zamzara]

If you appealed, then they can consider internally whether to change the decision. If the decision is not changed they MUST forward the appeal to the Tribunals Service. From your post it sounds like they haven't.

 

To be honest though it will probably be held to be recoverable as you suspected it was an overpayment when it was paid, and told them as much, unfair as this is.

[Zamzara]

That is what gets me, 'will', they do have discretion just don't want to use it.

 

As for nameing them - too right they should be named.

 

Absolutely right: in theory they must genuinely consider whether to exercise discretion not to recover a recoverable overpayment, but in practice it's hard to enforce (judicial review).

[silverfox1961]

 

To be honest though it will probably be held to be recoverable as you suspected it was an overpayment when it was paid, and told them as much, unfair as this is.

 

I disagree. The OP rang to query the payment but was told it was correct therefore they had no reason to suspect that the council had made a mistake and as such I don't believe they should be penalised for someone else's mistake.

[debt4get]

dont mind naming the council didnt know we were allowed to on the forum the council in question is rhondda cynon taf,

from one of the previous posters I had absolutely no idea that it was an overpayment I only queried because I was surprised to have money returned to me something I have never had happen to me before.

but then I have worked all my life and paid rates ever since I have owned a property.

[silverfox1961]

Sent you a reply to your PM.

Just for reference. The Council Tax Benefit regulations regarding overpayments are CTB regs 84(2)-(3)

these state when an overpayment shouldn't be recovered.

[debt4get]

my mp emailed me this morning and left his secretary's phone number have just spoken to her and they are going to have a go at the council to see if they can help in any way, maybe someone with a bit more clout than ive got such as them can get/help to resolve this problem

[silverfox1961]

Many,Many years ago(yup, I'm that old:)) I had my council chasing me for two lots of overpayment but once I got my MP and MEP involved, the situation was resolved very quickly (in my favour I might add:))

 

Councils do not like their dirty washing brought into the spotlight and remember, your MP was elected by the public. Their job depends on the public having faith with their MP.

[debt4get]

thanks for the story, just hope this guy can sort out problem in my favour now, certainly feel a bit better bout it now ive got a bigger gun on my side

[debt4get]

well council rang me this afternoon after mp had spoken to them to offer a reduced payment schedule, however, dont know if im better off now or worse

because the new tax year starts next month my payments to the council instead of 70 pound per month will be........wait for it.................82 pound per month for 10 months and all this to be funded by my invalidity my wifes invalidity and a small occupational pension of 104 pound per month,

im at my bloody wits end, cant see any way out of this except to pay pay and pay again

[debt4get]

ive just worked out I am now paying the same council tax as when I had an income of 30,000pa instead of 2 x invalidity benefit £84.50 per week and 1 x occupational pension £104 pound per month

out of this also have to pay

phone

tv licence

water

gas

electric

food

insurances house

petrol

etc etc

but this wonderful govt says I can live on myself and my spouse 134 pound per week anything over that look out m8 were aving it

[mick094m]

Hi

When you say "invalidity" is that "DLA£ because if it is then that (DLA) is NOT supposed to be means tested and should not be used in Councils figures to determne how much Tax you owe

[debt4get]

no not dla I do get dla allowance which goes on my vehicle I am talking about invalidity benefit (sickness benefit) believe me when I say if I could possibly go back to work i would return today