It finally arrived!

[stressed mum!]

I cca the co-op bank on 20/1/09 and recieved my agreement yesterday some of you helpful people have already advised me as they have defaulted me on 28/02/09 and the dates are wrong so if it does go to court I should only be liable for the arrears will also post that up could you please tell me what you think of the agreement they alsop sent me 11 pages of t&c which looks like it's just been printed off archive addy is at the bottom from there site

thanks very much from a very stresses mum x

 

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Edited March 10, 2009 by stressed mum!
forgot links

[cerberusalert]

I can't make out the top right hand of page one too clearly, but by what I can see the prescribed terms are not present. Are the credit limit, APR%, repayment terms etc shown within the four corners of the signature page?

[stressed mum!]

Thanks for your reply

No there is no credit limit

the only thing it says about apr is in the top right corner of sig page

and no repayment terms on it

the T&C are 11 pages stapled together with 13/2/09 on the date they were printed from the site. to be honest the small print is difficult to read as it's a copy that's then been faxed.

[cerberusalert]

As it stands it's unenforceable, mainly because it's not legible but more probably because it doesn't contain the prescribed terms.

[stressed mum!]

Thanks for your advice I did say to my husband that was the case but the more heads the better!

I have seen a letter on here regarding the above to send to creditors but can't locate (this site is so big!)

any ideas ??

[cerberusalert]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

[stressed mum!]

Thankyou for this cerberusalert you have been really helpful,

I hope you dont mind but could I pick your brain my husband has sent relevent letters to Northeren Rock explaining he cannot keep up the payments on his loan the cca is correct only done last year he has been making token payments they have sent him aletter along with an expenses form I have read on a thread that these dont have to be filled in and they have to take our word for it so to speak is this correct x

[cerberusalert]

They are not legally entitled to the info no, but it may be wise to send them a very basic I&E form showing that you can only make minimum payments, then in the worse case scenario and it went to the CCJ level you could show the judge that you were committed in your desire to make payments which would be in your favour.

[stressed mum!]

Thanks for that when you say basic how basic???? As they have sent a very indepth one asking amount for school lunches ect which we do have to pay out ( we dont get any benefits apart from the usual child benifit and child tax credit) as my husband works to be honest we would be better off if we was'nt together but it is'nt an option x

[cerberusalert]

Try this one; Free Income and Expenditure Form

 

Only include basic wages no overtime etc.

[stressed mum!]

A big thankyou you've been really helpful have tipped you're scales x

[stressed mum!]

Hiya I have recieved a letter from them today stated that it is they have sent the right information out and that is what they will be using to recover the debt all they have done is resent the previous documents (application form photocopied again so now I definatley cant read it!!)

What do you think I should do next?

[cerberusalert]

The choice is yours as to whether you send a SAR, which will cost £10, in order to see exactly what data they do have on you or a CPR request.

 

With the SAR they have to send everything the hold including application (which they have already sent), agreement, bank statements etc (which will enable you to reclaim any unfair charges they may have added). If they do not send an enforceable agreement you can safely assume there isn't one & if they were daft enough to go to court without it they'd lose.

 

The CPR request below cost nothing and it also asks them for a copy of the agreement, again if they send the same old rubbish you can safely assume that an enforceable agreement doesn't exist;

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

Yours,

Print name do not sign

[stressed mum!]

Thankyou will use the CPR request see what I get just done 2 SAR for northern rock cost's a fortune!!

I sent the expenses form of to them and the cheeky monkeys are asking what I have included in the (other) part and how many people live in the house ect funny thing is both myself and husband have loans with them and are only asking me for this info and I have sent them excatley the same letter's everytime!!!!

[stressed mum!]

Hi cerberusalert I recieved a letter on thursday from them regarding my complaint about phone calls and that I have requested a copy of my agreement as it may be impoperly executed!

The have said they will not contact me by phone again(shame other companies dont do the same!) sent me the same documents do you have any advise I am at a bit of a loss as of what to do next with this one

thanks x

[cerberusalert]

Well, if they've sent you a defective Default Notice & they have closed the a/c they can only claim the arrears anyway. There is nothing more you can do until they try to enforce payment & to be honest I don't think it would be worthwhile sending a SAR because you'll probably get the same rubbish back. In the meantime have a read of; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn.html

[stressed mum!]

hello Cerberusalert I have had a dodgy default notice but they hav'nt terminated the account yet, that's what I'm hoping they hurry up and do!

Thanks for the link have read that one.

Hope you are well so I will just sit and see what turn's up thanks for your advice and getting back to me so quickly, off to write a few letters!! x

[pie2pie]

Hi Iam new to the forum & looking for some advice. I recently requested CCA from MBNA and DCA that has taken over another outstanding CC. I didn't include £1 fee ( didnot realise had to basically) does this mean they can ignodre my request?

[Dinkjames]

does this mean they can ignodre my request?

 

Short answer is Yes, they can.

 

I would also suggest starting your own thread and get help for your specific problem.

[stressed mum!]

Ok a bit of an update, I have recieved a letter from Moorcroft Debt recovery Pre- court division notice of inteded litigation giving me till 8 august, I have my dodgy default, and my agreement was unenforcable as you can see by my thread should I send the I am bemused letter???

[cerberusalert]

Send Morecrap this; http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

[stressed mum!]

Thankyou Cerberusalert, I take it you have had dealings with moorcrap then? My only worry is them turning up at the house as alot of the time I am on my own as my husband works shifts and shortly he will be away for 5 weeks.

How is the weather in seine??

[cerberusalert]

Ive had no personal dealings with them no, but I'm a fair man so I treat them all with equal contempt.

There is little chance of anyone turning up but if you're concerned you can warn them off with this; http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit-

It's chucking it down here at the moment & my dog keeps looking at me soulfully wanting to go for her morning walk. She might have webbed feet but I don't.

[stressed mum!]

Thanks for that I have one of those letters that I have sent to MBNA. (How lucky am I!!) I will print one off just incase not a great situation to be in at the moment have 3 little ones to look after and this is not a place where we'd ever thought we'd be but this site has been great and would have definatley fell apart if I did'nt know about it.

Have 7 creditors between us and have managed to sort out 3 which we're the big ones so quiet proud if myself.

 

Rain eh!! Well it's suppossed to be nice here for the next few day's so washing out and getting the kids ready for the park, hope your dog keeps her legs crossed!!

[stressed mum!]

Hello cerberusalert hopw you had a good christmas and new year. I have recieved a letter from equidebt with regards to the debt with co-op (moorcrap obviously sold it back to co-op) I am going to send them the letter which you posted earlier as it obviously worked with moorcroft would you think this is the best idea?

Love your new avatar by the way very much into supporting our troops hubby ex forces