County Court Baliffs - CCJ

[dewiwayne]

I Had a baliff call out today (after a few visits:() and I Had this Red Letter Off Them

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: Debtors Vs Dewiwayne

 

I called today to inform you a van will be calling to remove your goods. You will incur van charges of £50, this will be added to the balance of the warrant of £xxx.xx if this is not paid to this office within 12 days, ie by 10:00 am on 23/2/2009, I will visit your address again with the court van and a locksmith to remove the leveied goods.

 

A FURTHER VAN FEE WILL BE INCURRED AND LOCKSMITH FEES OF £50.00 PLUS THE COST OF A NEW LOCK WILL BE CHARGED.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

xxx xxxxxxx

Baliffs Section

 

 

Right first things first they have not been in the house and haven't leveied any goods so can they still force any entry into the house and take things they have "leveied against"??

 

at the moment the credit crunch have hit us hard and i cant afford to pay no creditors due to no job and piles of bills and a 3 yr old son what can i do?!?!? :-|:-| Please help CAGGERS

[KJD]

Can you tell us a bit more about the original debt? Who is it with? How much (roughly)? And how long ago did the CCJ register? Have you made any previous arrangement with the bailiffs? And are they bailiffs from the courts or a private firm?

 

Be as vague as you want - doesn't pay to give too much away

 

Then we can see what can be done to help

[dewiwayne]

Brey Services LTD which is a Water company

£517.74

Sept 08 registered CCJ

No arrangement made phoned to tell him i can pay 10 per month but he just laughed at me and said that he wants £50 per month

This is County Courts Baliffs from County courts themselves

[KJD]

Well... my thoughts on this...(and please jump in Ell-enn, Chris etc)

 

Firstly, in my experience, county court bailiffs seem to be a bit more human than private bailiffs, which is a plus here. However, you've already been knocked back by them after your first offer, so we need a re-think.

 

I had a thread in January where Ell-enn posted the following re County Court Judgements..

 

"Hi there, you can download the N245 here Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home. Select Forms and Guidance from the menu on the left hand side and enter N245 in the box. You can then go to the page to download the form. There is a fee of £35.00 when you put the application in at court.

 

If they complete the form tonight or tomorrow morning they can deliver it by hand to the local court where the bailiffs operate from. No further action by the bailiffs can take place while the N245 is at court awaiting consideration. If they intend to repay over two months they should have no trouble getting the judge to agree. There is no hearing to attend, the form will go in front of the judge, probably in the next week or so, and then the decision will be posted to them."

 

(I hope you don't mind me copying/pasting the above, Ell-en )

 

If you are on benefits or low income you could well get help with the £35.00. Have a look round the HMCS website - it's quite good at explaining your options.

 

After a good read come back with any questions..

Edited February 10, 2009 by KJD
oops!

[KJD]

Hang on a mo though. I've just seen your other thread on this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/165862-ccj-am-i-too.html

 

Did you do anything about this? From a first glance, it appears you shouldn't be paying this

 

*beetles off to have a closer look*

[dewiwayne]

Yea this is the same thing the order of Execution is the court bailiffs

so when I enter the N245 form it will stop them knocking ok

But as u said i dont believe that i should be paying this as it was part of my rent but have no proof. My Ex-neighbour who is with the same agent didnt pay for hers although her Contract was the same.:-?:?

[Fair-Parking]

A County Court employed bailiff threatening to change locks? That's eviction and any bailiff directly employed by a court would know that only happens when a judge signs a order for allowing forced entry on eviction.

 

Bringing the van round? County Court bailiffs don't have vans, nor the capacity or storage to sell off your belongings.

 

It would seem somebody isn't quite what he would like you to believe. This sound like a regular conman and fraudster who became a certificated private bailiff last Tuesday.

 

Check further with the court and not on any phone number this 'county court bailiff' gives you. If it doesn't add up cite section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (false representation) and section 4 (false documentation)

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, KJD is correct - you need to enter an N245 at court to stop the bailiff calling. You can either offer a small amount per month (they will see from your income that you cannot afford much), or you can state why you don't think you should be paying it.

 

Does your neighbour pay the same amount of rent as you i.e. is their rent more because the water bill is included?

 

If the bailiffs have not been in the house then they cannot break in. I have seen similar letters from county court bailiffs (on red paper!). They are trying to make you believe they can get a locksmith and a van when they cannot. Someone I was helping had the same letters and we wrote to the court to complain that what the bailiff was stating in the letters was misleading.

 

Can you pm me the name of the court.

 

Ell-enn

[Fair-Parking]

If this really is wayward county court employed bailiff, then PM me with his phone number and I'll be delighted to educate him before advising his employers of his unlawful behaviour.

[MrShed]

OK having read the previous thread....did you apply to have the CCJ setaside? You clearly are NOT liable for this, so I sincerely hope you did.

[MrShed]

To respond to your PM.

 

Can anyone advice the OP on the procedure for applying to set aside a CCJ? And whether it is still within time frame?

 

Onto the proof aspect - I assume that the CCJ was given "by default" and you did not attend/were aware of the court hearing, correct? As as far as I can read from your previous thread, you never had any kind of agreement with the company in question to pay them a penny - no contract, no agreement, nothing. As such, even a feeble defence would have won in my opinion. Tied in with the fact that your landlord agreed to pay the charges in question , (although this is actually the least relevant part of the defence), you shouldnt have any liability for these charges - however, we will need to go into the defence aspect in more details once you apply to have the claim set aside.

 

Why was the hearing not attended?

[Oh Boy!]

OK!

 

Firstly County Court Bailiffs can, if the court had been indemnified force entry to a property but highly unlikely unless it is a business.

 

We do have vans and capacity to store and sell the goods removed,

 

Bailiffs do not change locks the claimant has to arrange for the lock-smith to change the locks, again if the court has been indemnified.

 

I have no idea what this bogus red paper is, it should just be on normal A4 white sheet, samples available on request.

 

And yes CC bailiffs really easy to deal with.

 

I am happy to assist and answer any questions you like.

[Oh Boy!]

DEWI

 

On second thoughts can you scan that letter in let me have alook, deleting all personal information, I would hate to think that we have a rogue civil servant.

[Ell-enn]

Oh Boy, I have seen the same letter printed on red paper from a court in a different part of the country (250 miles away to be exact). I would have thought telling people that the bailiff is returning with a van and a locksmith when in fact they have not yet obtained that authority from the court is some kind of breach?

[Fair-Parking]

Oh Boy. Are you a county court bailiff as your CV suggests that you have represented several other courts but not the county court?

[dewiwayne]

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: red1rb8.jpg

 

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: red2cp2.jpg

 

 

 

Here u are

oh boy! Proof For you

[Fair-Parking]

Hi Dewi - Struggling to read the red letters. Is there any chance that they can by expanded to be more readable?

 

From what I can deduce which is very little, I don't see a plaint number which is central to any County Court.

 

I'm sorry to say that I am still suspicious of this and have yet to be convinced that this is not a private bailiff.

 

As a result I would like to investigate further

[Ell-enn]

Hi, if you click on the image twice and then press ctrl+ a few times it does enlarge the image

[Fair-Parking]

I have now expanded the page and can read more, but my suspicions increase. I can see that there is a place for a case number and that the number has been deleted. However county courts use the term Claim Number on their correspondence. secondly there is no reference to the County Court in the official address section. Third the whole correspondence seems to have been slapped on to the paper in a very haphazardous and lazy manner unbefitting any official court document. Fourthly the idea that any county court employed baliff would 'laugh' at your offer (post 3), rather than suggest that you make an application to the county court does not ring true.

 

Finally whilst the phone number for the bailiff is very similar to that of the court and indeed these bailiffs may well even have an office within the court building itself, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are county court employees.

[Ell-enn]

Hi Fair Parking, that letter is exactly the same as the one I saw that a colleague received and it was from the local court bailiff. They have an office within the court building and operate from there. We wrote to the court manager advising that the letter contained misleading information together with an N245 to suspend the warrant.

[Fair-Parking]

It's difficult not to have suspicions here. The whole thought process of vans and changing locks could only have been written by those who are not familiar with county court procedure.

 

No county court would issue a warrant for right of forced entry without it being signed by a judge and court sealed. There's no evidence of that so far. If a judge is moved to issue such an order, then it is used in conjunction with evictions. A judge would know that he must also stipulate the day and time of such entry on the order.

 

Further under the Khazanchi v Faircharm Investments ruling of 1998, NOBODY is allowed entry into your property if you are not there and they never stipulated the day and time of their arrival. It seems that our 'county court' bailiffs are in complete ignorance of this precedent.

 

We too have a red letter on file. Issued by bailiffs representing Wandsworth BC and deliberately made to look like a county court order. It's a fraud of course and like Dewi's the wording has been slapped on to the paper - possibly by the same photcopying machine which is clearly in need of a service! If not, then at least by the same disjointed, predictable and pathetic mindset of an uneducated cheap conman.

[MrShed]

Guys, is everyone ignoring the fact that the OP does not owe this money anyway? How does the OP apply to have this set aside?

[Fair-Parking]

No the OP is not being ignored. He has two problems, one of which appears to be a bullying and deceitful bailiff who will not listen to him and whose methods may well be illegal and thus of public concern.

 

Ell-enn had provided the answer to problem of having a judgment set aside or varied by suggesting the use of an N245. An honest bailiff working at a county court and thus not on commission would have already advised the OP of that rather than treating him with contempt (post 3)

[dewiwayne]

I've been told that I need to use a N244 Form not N245 and has anybody got an example application?

[Fair-Parking]

An N244 is a county court general application form and can be used for setting aside a judgment whilst an N245 is used mainly to vary the terms of a judgment.

 

Both can br downloaded from HMCS website. Try typing in N244 on Google.