MBNA No CCA but they still think they are right.

[Goldlady]

This is an old one but I think it is still valid:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Request for true copy of Credit Agreement under Sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I wrote to you recently requesting a true, signed copy of any credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. This is my right under Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on payment of the statutory fee of £1.00. This payment was included with my original request.

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested document. Should they fail to do this, they have a further calendar month to rectify this default. Failure to comply within these timescales is a criminal offence.

 

Both of these deadlines have now passed and I have received nothing in relation to my request. This can lead me to only one conclusion, that being that no signed credit agreement exists in relation to this account.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable, even in a court of law. This will be a complete defence to any court action that you may consider taking.

 

On the advice of the Financial Ombudsman, I am now requesting a final decision in this matter from you. Should this decision not meet with my satisfaction, then I will pursue the matter through the Ombudsman. The maximum timescale for you to give a final response to any complaint is 8 weeks. This time runs from the date of my original complaint, in this case that is the request for a true copy of the credit agreement. Therefore, you must provide me with a final response in this matter, including your proposed actions for this account, by [insert date].

 

Please note, you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with the credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

There has never been any regulated agreement in relation to this account, and therefore you have never had my consent to process my data. I also do not see how you can state that you have a legitimate interest in processing my data as we have never had any contract that would enable you to do this.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

 

* You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

* You may not pass this account to any third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Be warned, the CCA 1974 is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no agreement, as in this case, then you cannot issue a default as I have not breached any valid, regulated agreement.

 

I look forward to your final decision on this complaint within 21 days. This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a credit agreement.

 

Yours faithfully

[Goldlady]

A more recent one I have just spotted on the forums:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

[jobmid]

A more recent one I have just spotted on the forums:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

many thanks

[Harrassed09]

Hi, i have sent this letter (or a very similar one morphed from this site) twice now and now response. Does anyone know of a template to further chase, I have given 28 days to respond and they have ignored merely sent a 'recognition of your complaint' standard letter.

 

Any assistance in this matter would be greatfully received!

[Scrapper]

Hi

 

I have also sent CCA requests to various card companys and none of them have supplied me anything remotely representing a signed credit agreement.

 

MBNA have igonored everything I have sent them and in short told me they can do what they like. They also stated that they don't have to supply me with a true copy of a CCA and we've only sent you our current T&C. I'm not expert but I very much doubt that they are the same as the one's I agreed to 15yrs ago and with the current interest rate at 34.9% they can go lick my ar*e.

 

The account is in serious dispute and they are continuing to chase me daily again (thought that had stopped after I told them written communication only) Their tactics seem to have changed somewhat though, because their automated dialing system is leaving messages on my answer phone. (result for harrasment case that will be forthcoming) They are still adding late payment charges, interest etc etc so they are in breach of every guideline they are supposed to follow.

 

If anybody can help with the next steps as apart from ignoring me they are threating legal action now. They just don't seem to accept that they haven't got the credit agreement as I've had the account 15yrs + and are just being a bunch of ar*e wipes.

 

I was just thinking of calling their bluff and telling them I'd see them in court. Good idea or not???????

 

They haven't even bothered to process my SAR application

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Scrapper Coco

[Scrapper]

Hi

 

I'm going to send this letter to MBNA before I start contacting FOS and TS

 

All comments, Suggestions welcome please

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 13th February 2009, received 21st February 2009, the contents of which are noted.

I am somewhat perplexed as to why you are considering POTENTIAL COMMENCEMENT OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS as you have failed to comply with any of my requests for information which in turn has put this account into serious dispute.

I would like to draw your attention to the following so as not to be in any doubt about your company’s lack of compliance with my LEGAL request.

 

On 21st January 2009, and the 29th January 2009, I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is NOT permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

 

· May not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

· May not add further interest or any charges to the account.

 

· May not pass the account to a third party.

 

· May not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

 

· May not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Be warned, the CCA 1974 is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no agreement, as in this case, then you cannot issue a default as I have not breached any valid, regulated agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I look forward to your final decision on this complaint within 21 days. This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a credit agreement.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Scrapper Coco

[charliebubs]

Good luck Jobmid - I shall be watching this thread for updates on your case.

 

Scrapper - I've replied in your thread.

[jobmid]

thanks for all the help and comments guys

[Goldlady]

If they can't supply the original CCA then they cannot enforce the original debt in court - end of story.

 

[jobmid]

If they can't supply the original CCA then they cannot enforce the original debt in court - end of story.

 

 

thats the way i am seeing it as well no cca = no debt in the eyes of the law

 

i was luckey enough to have remebered never signing one and finding CAG when the MBNA treatomatic 1000 fired up

[charliebubs]

Strictly speaking No CCA does not equal no debt.

 

The debt is obviously still there and you have spent the money etc

 

No CCA = no enforceability of the agreement

 

They will still pester you to pay and probably sell the debt on to a DCA

[llain]

Hiya Jobmid.

 

I've just stated a thread here but would appreciate any advice you have on MBNA Ireland.

[Harrassed09]

MBNAitis with me too. One application form received, the other account they confirm they 'have not been able to send you a photocopy of the original..'.

 

First does not have the prescribed terms the second they cannot produce.

 

Should I SAR and ensure they are not fibbing! or would I be best saving my £10, the orignal CCa request went off in Sept 08, this istaking ages!

 

What would my next step be? Should I compain to FSO? Send further letters to be ignored?

 

If the agreements cant be enforced by the court should I raise a claim for interest and charges, would this 'focus their minds' what I really want is to be able to answer the phone or the door on a daily basis. I offered them reduced payments, they declined. I offered them F&F settlement, they ignored it until very very recently ie 6 months later. I would really like this settled and have no real intention of claiming charges/interest, the debt is already very large and comprises a vast amount of interest at 34.9% now and charges

 

What is the best next step?

[Hussy786]

Hi

 

If they have not got a true coby of agreement they can not do anything against you. Write them a final letter and offer them either 3p or 4p (yes 3pence or 4pence) to settle the account for once and all.

DCAs buy the debit at that price worth offering them 10p (still let them make money of you lol).

I amnot being funny my friend but MBNA do not deserve decency . The advice I just wrote above was given to me by one of this site Admin.

Keep smiling

[jobmid]

well my case it the the ombudsman now and they even admitted to the ombudsman during the investiation they sold the debt the a dca when the ombudsman told them to put all actions on hold pending the investigation they are now in trouble the the ombudsman and the ombudsman is coming down hard on them

[Hussy786]

Hi Jobmid

That is very great news really. I am sick of their calls and going to ask them to provide me the copy of agreement as they are threatning to pass this to DCA so does the capital one.

If they do not have copies then I am laughing?????

Any tried and tested method to deal with DCAs will be appreciated???

[jobmid]

well if the dont have a cca then the debt can not be enforced. MBNA have gone all quite on me since the ombudsman stepped in its been a few months now since I have heard a peep out of them they used to call daily from a private number and I then stoped answering private numbers which led to problems as my job would call me from a private number or if

i had been looking for a new job then all those calls came from private numbers

[Hussy786]

Hi Jobmid

Thank you for your reply. I am waiting for DCA as i have been told to request CCA from them? Is this true?

Any help with this will highly be appreciated.

(Have not asked MBNA for CCA yet or shall I ask them )

I am few payments behind and they have threatened me to be handed to DCA.

[jobmid]

just an update on this the ombudsman came back and ruled in my favor they say they have taken action against them but say i should pay £450 as a token of good will to clear the debt to link finincial the debt was £3500 should I pay it or tell link to take a run and jump MBNA had my life hell for the last 2 years.

[blueotter]

That strikes me as a good deal if you can afford it but make sure you get an agreement to remove and default notices that have been applied in its name.

I'm sure you'll get some other advice but if it resolves the matter in your favour,gives you peace of mind and clears up the issue of the default then that's job done isn't it.

[NPMBNA]

Hi All,

 

I issued a CCA request to MBNA on 20th October, no reply. As they defaulted, I sent another letter, (used a template off this site) about the account now being in a default situation...blah blah.

As they defaulted I didn't pay that months payment. They have now passed the debt on to a DCA (global vantedge) after missing only one payment!!! I have also rec'd this months statement with default charge for last months missed payment. Am I right in assuming this is illegal?

 

What should be my next step. I am almost certain they don't have a credit agreement as I got the card about 15 years ago and it was with National & Provincial.

 

I want the debt written off...I've paid enough interest over the years to cover anything I spent x about 1000!!

 

Thanks

[benboy]

Hi NPMBNA, I have done the same...stopped payment as they have also failed to supply mine.

 

I agree with you about MBNA, they have had enough of my money and have harrassed me and many others by the sounds of it.

 

I would have thought you should be able to ignore the DCA as they have committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act by selling the debt on to a third party whilst they have defaulted and the account remains in dispute. Whatever happens, they wont be able to take you to court if there is no enforceable agreement. From what I have read on here, with MBNA there isn't likely to be one (pre 2007).

 

Anyone else?

[benboy]

There is definately a template letter on Moneysavingexpert site to write to a DCA if the account is in dispute. However, I would have thought you could simply say "I cannot understand why the account has been sold to you as it is in dispute"

 

I have not heard from then yet, early days for me I think.