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    • Welcome to posting on CAG cabot, people will be along soon to help you try to sort this out. Please complete this:  
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keefyboy - v - Capone


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If they fail to respond in 12+2 WORKING days then this is the next letter to send (recorded del)

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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Many thanks 42man, I have worked out that as it is working days they have until the 12th February to supply the correct information. This also applies to both the requests sent to Capital One as well.

 

I will prepare all 3 letters so that on the 12th (as we are going away for 1 week on 14th) so that I just have to send them recorded delivery. I will keep you updated with what happens next.

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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  • 2 weeks later...

Both of the Capital One Cards have returned letters, please bear with me as for some reason my scanner is not working correctly and I can not paste it on here so I got to type it all

 

First, the letter is dated, 6th February 2009, we did not go away until the 13th February, so I suspect the date of this letter, as they have never taken

7 days to reply before, it is normally a lot. The letter arrived sometime between the 13th and 19th February. Sorry I do not believe that this letter has taken 7 days+ to get to me if it was dictated or whatever they do now. on 6th.

I think it has been backdated to the 6th to make it look good.

 

Now the letter

 

"Thank you for your recent letter requesting copy documents for your account.

 

You requested copies of the executed credit agreement and a statement6 of your account under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement as requested. In accordance with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, this is your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Your Account is in default and the amount currently due and payable is £****.**p

 

You requested a copy of the default notice we issued on your account. Under section 78 we are not required to provide a copy of the default notice and statement of default. However, we can confirm that a statement of default was issued on 6th December 2008.

 

I trust this information will help you with your enquirers. If you need any further information, please contact me again"

 

It then gives me cost of ringing them and is signed off by a computer copy signature of Ellie Renshaw, Executive Office Manager.

********************

Then there is a second letter headed "Terms of your Capital One Credit card Agreement"

 

"Thank you for your recent request. Please see overleaf for the current terms of your agreement with us.

 

For thew rest of your terms and conditions, please see the leaflet enclosed

 

If you have any further queries about your account, please call our customer Services Department on the number below

 

This is then signed off with a computer copy of the signature of

Stephanie Dufty, Marketing Manager.

 

On the rear side of this letter is printed Credit Card Agreement Regulated By The Consiumer Credit Act 1974

 

The font is so small I have to use a magnifying glass to read it (I am already sight impaired and this is so small it is a joke) There is as they said, No dtaes, no personal details of me, my or their signature boxes. etc etc

 

Now we come to both of the letters received, on the front of the first letter they state my name and address (Personal information), my account number (Personal details ?)

and on the second letter has once again, my full name and address, my account number and even my credit limit, so much for not giving personal details in the aggreement copy, but they have already done it on the front of each letter.

 

There is then another 6 fold pages of "Important information about your Capital One credit card. These terms and conditions are from 6th August 2008.

 

So in my head, the agreement copy is not worth the paper it is written on, as I can not even seen if my signature is on it or not, the dates etc etc..

 

The other letter to Capital One (my wifes credit card with them) has got exactly the same response to it.

 

 

So can you help me with as to what I should do next please.

***********************

 

The second letter to Lloyds TSB has not been replied to yet, still within the time limit to answer.

 

***************************

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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This is probably their usual tripe but without a scan we can't be absolutely sure.

 

Do you have a digital camera?

 

fox

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Hi Fox

Right here goes, sorry it is sideways thats the only way we could scan it in, and it is so small font, I cant read it without a magnifying glass.

New Image.jpg

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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sorry, they're too small to read.

try using photobucket:

 

It seems tricky at first, but is fairly simple really.

 

1, Scan your DCA letter/whatever you want to show on the forum.

Ideal setting is 100dpi as it's closest to computer monitor display resolution.

 

2, Save the scanned image as a jpeg

Step 2.5 Edit out any personal information, barcodes or any other comments, notes or markings around the edge of the document. Never change the original document you received

2.5, Load the saved image into MS Paint. (comes free with Windows.) Use the pain brush or spray can to remove/paint over any personal info, such as name, account number, address, etc. Also remove any barcodes, as some DCAs may be able to identify you from these.

 

3, Create an account on Photobucket.

 

4, Once you have a Photobucket account, you'll find on the main webpage little box where you can upload photos. Click the "upload image" box and then tell it where on your hard disk you saved your scanned jpeg. It will then upload the image to Photobucket and it will show you thumbnails of the images you have uploaded. Under each image there are links that you can copy and paste.

 

5, Copy the IMG link below the image you want to put on the forum. Then reply to thread on CAG. Right click with the mouse and select "paste" from the little menu that pops up.

 

6, You'll then get some text appear in your message that looks a bit like this.

 

imagename.jpg{\IMG

 

When you submit the reply, the text will change into the image you uploaded onto photobucket. The text you copied and pasted is just the information the forum needs, so it knows where to find your photo and display it in your message.

 

 

Courtesy of Fuzzybobble

 

 

give it a go.

 

fox

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Sorry, for some reason on photobucket it is vertical but when transfered to here went back to sideways, but a bit bigger

 

Keith

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Morning kieth,

They have complied-sort of.

What they have sent you is their terms and conditions and a blank agreement which could apply to anybody, not just you.

 

Just how long ago did you take out the card?

 

While they haven't proved you owe the debt they can't enforce it.

If they had a valid copy of your agreement, why wouldn't they send it instead of a blank.

 

If you haven't already sent the acount in dispute letter, get it off soonest.

 

fox

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Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi Fox

I sent the letter on 12th February 2009 via recorded delivery as by then the 12+2 days were up and they had NOT replied to my earlier letter up to and including the 13th February 2009.

 

So do I just stop paying what I am paying now and wait and see what they do or is there anything else I should do please? and obviously we stop payment on both cards we have and got identical replies.

 

Keith

 

I have just been onto Royal Mails site to track the letters and 1 was fine delivered on 13th February 2009 and it has an electronic proof of delivery (I thought only Dr's have signatures like that ! ), but the second letter again recoreded delivery did not arrive until 17th February 2009 and there is NO electronic proof of delivery (more like they forgot to get it signed for ) 5 days to get from Loughborough to Nottingham, I could have got there quicker on my wheelchair ! I feel a complaint coming on... My wife says my middle name is now "Moaner" but I tell you what its worth it sometimes..

 

Anyway thats beside the point, would this late delivery of the letter cause any problems ?

 

Keith

(The Moaner)

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Not easy this. They think they have complied and will continue to chase. That's the failings of the CCA 1974, they don't have to send you an exact copy but they do have to prove the agreement is in some way relevant to you.

If you haven't seen this yet, have a look:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

May be you need to use that to get an exact copy of your agreement.

I'm using parts of it in my battle with Lowells.

 

fox

 

PS isn't Leicestershire pleasant this afternoon ;-)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

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Hi Fox

Yes I see what you mean, it does seem a double standard that they can avoid giving you a true copy of the originally signed document by hiding under CCA 77/78 but on the front side of that supplied document put your personal details, account number, credit limit etc etc.

I have read the thread, and it is an eye opener to say the least. I am going to use the document Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) to try and get the document.

 

So I will continue making token payment to keep them quiet for now..

 

and yes it has been "Tee" shirt weather this afternoon... even the garden solar lights are working tonight !

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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2 New letters written, waiting posting by Recorded delivery tomorrow, using parts of that letter, see what they say this time.

Keith

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Hi Fox and all

This is a letter we received from Cap One this morning, stating that they had complied with the request of the agreement, they say that the agreement is enforceable and valid as evidenced by the documents they sent to me (which did not arrive at this house until after the 12 + 2 days had expired on the 12 February 2009) and the default notices was sent on to them by post (have recorded delivery receipts for BOTH accounts). So I really feel they are trying BIG BOY BULLY tactics here. I still do not beleive that the letter they dated 6th February 2009 was the genuine date, because it was over the 12+2 day period allowed, and I am sure they dated it that date to say they replied, but it must have got held up by Royal Mail, thats their normal excuse, but how do I stand legally on that ? don't they have to ensure that it does get to me before the expiry date ?

Because If I sent them a payment dated for the first of February 2009 and it didn't arrive until the 10th Feb and my payment date was 6th, they would not accept that as an excuse and would charge me for a late payment..

 

Cap1Defaultletter2N.jpg

 

Cap1Defaultletter21.jpg

 

Cap1Defaultletter22.jpg

 

So , can you advise me what to do next, the 2nd requests for the copy agreements not usind the DDA have gone and I am expecting them top try and ignore them because of what they say in this letter about it and stating that my notice is entirely unjustified and inappropriate (blimey there's some big words here !!)

 

They also state that their collections department have been trying to contact me about the status of our accounts. They were notified of our change of address last year, but as we have a ex-directory telephone number they were not given that number and were asked to do any enquiries via post only. They were told the change of address twice, by myself in writing and also by the Debt Management company that are dealing with our problems, but until I wrote to them once again this year saying that I wont be held responsible for any letters that get sent to my old address because they can't update their records properly. We are up to date with our payments as were agreed with the DMC and myself and them previously, and as there had been no change of circumstances the amount remained the same.

 

So what do you think I should do now please ?

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Hi again Guys

Can any moderator help me or something,

 

when I copied the letter image over to photobucket after placing alterations of the 1st page on paint, it shows on their album as with the editing, but it has printed the album picture with the information edited not on it, therefore it has disclosed all personal details..

 

Can anyone help URGENTLY please...

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Hiya,

Now they are really trying it on!

They have sent you a blank agreement and are calling it valid.

If they had the original, why wouldn't they send it??????

 

Two routes to go now.

 

1 send for the agreement using cpr 31.16

 

have a look at the link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Ms Renshaw has given you permission to complain to the FOS and the Information Commissioner as well as Trading Standards because she said it was her final reponse.

 

I would also do a formal complaint to Cap1 and get them to reveal the details of the default notice if one has been sent.

 

You could always offer to visit CAP1 as they're not too far from you to view the agreement.

 

I think the outcome of this is that they will probably try to sell the debt to one of the DCA's.

 

that's all I can think of at the mo.

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi again Guys

Can any moderator help me or something,

 

when I copied the letter image over to photobucket after placing alterations of the 1st page on paint, it shows on their album as with the editing, but it has printed the album picture with the information edited not on it, therefore it has disclosed all personal details..

 

Can anyone help URGENTLY please...

 

click edit then just delete everything with the backspace button but you may need to click the image itself before deleting.

 

when you repost, cover up all barcodes too

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi Fox

I have already sent for the copy under cpr 31.16, they went off yesterday before this letter arrived, so I must have known something eh... haa haa

 

It was very nice of them to send me one of their complaint procedure leaflets and it's even got the FSO's details on, so I will work on that one as well now.

 

I am even more suspicious now about it all.

 

Can anyone answer this question, I sent the default notice to them on 12th February 2009 as this was the deadline date for them to answer, and I know for a fact that the reply did NOT arrive here by 13th February 2009 (as this was the day we went away for a week after the postman had come). Although they dated their letter 6th February 2009, it did not arrive in time, so as far as I am concerned the default notice is served, am I correct on this please ??

 

If I am then, they can not sell the debt on to a DCA ?? Correct ??

Can I then completely disreguard what was said in the letter that I attached above about not being valid ??

 

What about asking for a SAR from them ? will this help me further please ??

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Hi Fox

I have already sent for the copy under cpr 31.16, they went off yesterday before this letter arrived, so I must have known something eh... haa haa Good. That should force them to show their hand

 

It was very nice of them to send me one of their complaint procedure leaflets and it's even got the FSO's details on, so I will work on that one as well now.

 

I am even more suspicious now about it all.

 

Can anyone answer this question, I sent the default notice to them on 12th February 2009 as this was the deadline date for them to answer, and I know for a fact that the reply did NOT arrive here by 13th February 2009 (as this was the day we went away for a week after the postman had come). Although they dated their letter 6th February 2009, it did not arrive in time, so as far as I am concerned the default notice is served, am I correct on this please ?? Doesn't matter what date they put, the account is in dispute by vitue of no valid CCA

 

If I am then, they can not sell the debt on to a DCA ?? Correct ?? Wanna bet!!!

Can I then completely disreguard what was said in the letter that I attached above about not being valid ??

 

What about asking for a SAR from them ? will this help me further please ?? If you were to SAR them, make sure thry include everything to do with you

 

Lets hope your cpr 31.16 brings a better response from CAP1

 

fox

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I think I will wait to see what response I get first, but I will speak to the FSO so that I can have everything ready to hit them hard with the complaint.

I have to start a complaint against Royal Mail now for taking 5 days to deliver a recorded delivery from Loughborough to Nottingham, (I could have got it there quicker by going in my wheelchair !) this is not the first time I have had to get my money back.... The moaner in action again !!

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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The moaner in action again !!

 

 

Oh my gawd! I'd hate to meet you on a bad day :D

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

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As I said before, I can't work so I needed a new hobby, so hence "The Moaner" it has had a good effect so far, it's called enjoyment the more I do it the more I enjoy it and I get a lot of satisfaction and sometimes rewards for my efforts... Now who is next on the list.. ?

 

and it's not the bad day you have to worry about, It's the "Good 'Ens" you have to keep well clear...

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Just imagine this.

My car, your wheelchair, a towrope :)

 

It's only a couple of junctions up the M1 from you. Go camping on their doorstep :)

 

Nah not really, my car's that naff, just carrying me slows it down

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