Bailiff advice

[tomtubby]

BAILIFF FEES FOR COUNCIL TAX

 

Source:

 

The Council Tax Administration & Enforcement (Amendment) 1993. Si 773 amended by Si 295 0f 1998, Si 768 of 2003 and Si 3395 of 2006

 

 

EXPLAINATION

 

First visit fee: £24.50

 

This is for a first attendance to levy but where a levy does not takes place. (For example where you are not in)

 

The bailiff can charge a levy fee if they levy but he cannot charge both amounts on the same occasion.

 

Second visit fee: £18.00

 

Despite any further visits, the bailiff can only charge for a maximum of 2 visits.

 

Levy Fee:

 

This is where the bailiff levies on goods and a Walking Possession is signed.

 

Under this heading the bailiff can charge £24.50 for the first £100, and 4% on the next £400 etc. For example: assuming your Council Tax bill is £600, the total amount that you should pay is as follows:

 

First £100 £24.50

Next £400 @ 4% £16.00

Remaining £100 @ 2.5% £ 2.50

Walking Possession Fee £12.00

 

Total £55.00

 

Attendance fee:

 

For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to recover goods but only after a levy has been made under this heading.

[Sic vis pacem, para bellu]

Last year I was taken to court by my LA for late payment of CT, ended up having to pay the full years tax up front. So paid the LA in full in September last year, in the mean time the LA had refereed the matter to the Bailiffs.

Never paid the Bailiffs a penny and never let them in to my home.

 

Now I became unemployed thus able was able to claim CT benefit, thus my acc was now in credit, managed to get the council to repay me the over payment of CT back, but to my shock the LA deducted the bailiffs fees.

 

My question is can the council do this ? As the over payment was for council tax and is my money I feel robbed.

What steps should I take ?

 

Views

[andie_303]

I'm not really sure but I would hope the answer is no!

 

Also have you checked the amount they have deducted to be correct - you knwo what these sneeky baliffs are like for adding on false charges?

[Sic vis pacem, para bellu]

The Bailiffs tried it on for £180 after investigation I had found they were trying to charge me for a fictitious Levi, I got on to my Local MP who promised to write to the local borough commander. As by trying to charge for fees that have not been incurred is fraudulent misrepresentation.

I got the fees down to £42 but was not intending to pay theses leeches a penny, the council have now used my council tax rebait money to pay them thus I am very ****ed off.

[andie_303]

I can well imagine - perhaps write to the council asking where they obtained permission to pay anyone else your money?

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

I think it might be worth asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act pertaining to all details of your claim AND the regulations which permit this course off action.

I would also ask the local councillor who he/she is ELECTED to represent.

 

GK

[Fair-Parking]

No I don't think that they can do this. How nice and convenient for them to pass your money on, except of course you aren't either contracted to the bailiffs or required to pay anything them law.

 

Remedy.

 

Ask the council under which statute you are required to pay ANY bailiffs fees. (Don't let them lazily point to the clause in the Council Tax Act which allows bailiffs to ASK for fees).

 

Tell the council that you paid the amount to them in full as per your council ta and that they accepted it as council tax. Tell them that the notice did NOT include bailiffs fees and therefore diverting your money to a third party is illegal. Had the council any reason to believe that such payment was short by whatever amount they have disingenuously passed on the bailiffs, then it would have been written in to their demand.

 

After that it is a moot point that they should have asked for whatever shortfall they imagined existed at the time of receipt rather than to remain silent and wait until a change in your circumstances presented them what they imagine to be a fortuious windfall to unlawfully pass on.

 

Give them notice that whatever they have passed on, you will deduct it form 2010 - 2011 and let them tell you why this fall fouls of the law.

 

Incidently, How much has the council given away?

[andie_303]

Fari Parking - I think the OP said intially the bailiff demanded £180 and this was 'reduced' to £42 when the legalities were questioned post #3

[FairPlay77]

Fari Parking - I think the OP said intially the bailiff demanded £180 and this was 'reduced' to £42 when the legalities were questioned post #3

 

THE bailiffs in this case may be in-house council bailiffs, but it still seems to me that the council-tax department has acted illegally in deducting bailiff fees. Moreover, if an in-house bailiff department was indeed involved it has broken the law by fraudulently demanding an amount well in excess of the legal fee, and a very strong protest should be made to the council about this.

[Sic vis pacem, para bellu]

I will be phoning and writing to the council and pointing out FAIR PARKINGS points. I will also be re contacting my local libdem councilor who was investigating the councils behavior and the fraud by the Bailiffs ( Newlans ) She did say that she would write to the local police big wig and ask them to investigate Newlans for fraudulent misrepresentation ;-)

My local MP thought that most Bailiffs were pretty much bottom feeders !

[WelshMam2009]

I think bailiffs are entitled to charge fees and there may even be a schedule somewhere...either way, they should be reasonable and proportionate

[chris600uk]

I think bailiffs are entitled to charge fees and there may even be a schedule somewhere...either way, they should be reasonable and proportionate

 

Fairparking got it right first time, as usual.

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

amended to

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

Bailiffs have no power to vary a Liability Order, and that's all you are obliged to pay the council.

 

Once the council is paid in full, the bailiffs may invoice you, and can pursue you through the small claims court. But that's it.

[chris600uk]

you could send the council an invoice for the missing money

if they don't pay, you could sue them in the small claims court.

if they still don't pay, you could send bailiffs round.

 

That'll teach 'em

[WelshMam2009]

Fairparking got it right first time, as usual.

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

amended to

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

Bailiffs have no power to vary a Liability Order, and that's all you are obliged to pay the council.

 

Once the council is paid in full, the bailiffs may invoice you, and can pursue you through the small claims court. But that's it.

 

The latter regulations, quoted above provides the Schedule 5 Statutory Rates for distress as follows...

 

3) In Schedule 5 (charges connected with distress)—

 

(a) in column (2) of the Table in paragraph 1—

 

 

• (i) in the row corresponding to head A(i) of column (1), for "£22.50" substitute "£24.50",
   
  (ii) in the row corresponding to head A(ii) of column (1), for "£16.50" substitute "£18.00",
   
  (iii) in the row corresponding to head E(i) of column (1), for "£14.00" substitute "£15.00",
   
  (iv) in the row corresponding to head E(ii) of column (1), for "£11.00" substitute "£12.00", and
   
  (v) in the row corresponding to head H(i) of column (1), for "£22.50" substitute "£24.50";
  

(b) in paragraph 2(1)(a), for "£22.50" substitute "£24.50".

 

Section 45 of the former regs state:

 

Distress

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

 

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

• (a) an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and
  

 

• (b) a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.
  

 

So, I reckon they can add the two together...

 

 

[chris600uk]

if you read it again, you'll see that that only applies once a levy has taken place.

 

That's why subsection 3, says that if the amount is tendered to the council they'll accept it and a levy won't be proceeded with.

 

The key is whether or not a lawful levy has taken place.

[chris600uk]

If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

It also makes a nonsense of that old chestnut "you have to pay the bailiffs".

[chris600uk]

Hope that makes sense now.

[WelshMam2009]

Hope that makes sense now.

 

Err actually no!!

 

But thanks, I appreciate you trying to explain!!

 

Will take a closer look when a few more of my brain cells are active

[casbah]

The Bailiffs tried it on for £180 after investigation I had found they were trying to charge me for a fictitious Levi, I got on to my Local MP who promised to write to the local borough commander. As by trying to charge for fees that have not been incurred is fraudulent misrepresentation.

I got the fees down to £42 but was not intending to pay theses leeches a penny, the council have now used my council tax rebait money to pay them thus I am very ****ed off.

 

Hi everyone

Sic vis you have made my day.

I, too, have this problem and have spent most of today on the telephone and net trying to find answers.

 

But I want to bounce round an idea for you guys to ponder......... If you want to make a complaint about a certificated bailiff you use form 4.

Form 4 falls under the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 (Rule 8).

I checked out this act and look what I came across The Distress for Rent Rules 1988 scroll down to LEVY AND REMOVAL then 12(2)

 

So if this ACT does cover this then he has broken the law as it says he SHALL not should.

What you think guys?

[casbah]

Right I have just heard back from the Ministry of Justice and I am right, they are covered by the Distress for Rent Rules 1988.

 

So I am hoping that as he has charged me fees and not followed these rules I can whoop his butt

[Guest Happy Contrails]

You wont whoop his butt, but from personal experience in Form 4 cases of charging unlawful fees, the judge rolls the case is rolled back to the original debt and all bailiffs fees are rescinded.

[casbah]

I'll have a damn good try

[Sic vis pacem, para bellu]

So I called Chief Executives office for Haringey council and gave them a polite blast down the phone pointing out that as long as I draw breath, I will never give the council consent to pay Bailiffs a penny of my hard earned dosh.

 

Thus far my money has not been sent to the Bailiffs ;-) I have now been promised a thorough investigation in to Newlans sharp and fraudulent behavior.

 

I asked the council to explain why the bailiffs were also threatening to Levi against me when my debt was paid in full to the council !

 

Thank you to all who have posted and for all the excellent advice. This is a great forum and helps many people.

[casbah]

maybe its time we joined forces and collectively fight newlyns

[Sic vis pacem, para bellu]

maybe its time we joined forces and collectively fight newlyns

 

Splendid idea we should all send in a form 4 collectively any one else have issues with them P.M me and we will organize to hit them all at once