buy as you view but same problems as bright house

[nicolefrenzy]

hi, i have a slight problem with buy as you view i first took out a tv with them 5 years ago and since then have had many electrical items from them i have recently found out that i have been paying for maintance cover and extra warranty..on looking at credit agreements i have signed for the warranty but really didnt read it or wasnt explained to me at all i remember he just put alittle cross where i had to sign and silly me just signed it..i tried to cancel the warranty on everything and maintance but they say i have to have house insurance to do this is this right? also i have noticed that evey time i have got something from them they have added it on to other purchases and calculated the interest on the whole amount making the interest much more..

 

sorry long post...

i am now refusing to pay can i do this? and also have no idea what route i need to go down i think i was miss sold warranty but as i say dont have a clue what rights i have any help thanks

[plumberjon]

Hi

 

Glad to see you found us here. Sorry it's taken a while to respond, but if you look around, you'll see that we've been a little busy

 

You vultures! | News | News Of The World

 

I am trying to get hold of a copyof the T&C's for BAYV.

 

I am certain that we can find out how to cancel these, especially if you maintain that you weren't aware of what you were signing for. But no-one wants to advise you on a whim, we need the hard facts.

 

Bear with us and we will find someone who knows.

 

Many thanks

 

PJ

[plumberjon]

Have found the following PDF, but it is more of a glossy, than the real thing.

 

 

Type "BAYV terms & conditions into google, and you'll see it.

 

 

 

I came back and edited out the link as it contravenes CAG policy to post a company website that is selling it's services.

Edited January 18, 2009 by plumberjon

[nicolefrenzy]

hi i requested copies of all credit agreements and a list of every thing i have paid well what i recieved was a print out from there computer which makes no sence and only has 1 item i bought recently and the maintance/warranty for 1 item this is not what i asked for at all.

i have noticed it says advance £2176,charges £1428,full cost £2176 thats for my tv i dont understand that at all then my maintance says advance £150,charges £90.24 then paid £240 eh. they say they have canceled my maintance and warranty but now i feel i want to claim it all back if possible but dont know how to do this

[plumberjon]

What you probably have there is the full jargon needed when you ask for a full statement.

 

This is jargon that has to be used due to the CCA. Different companies have different policies regarding this, but essentially, if you ask for detailed info, like how much have I got left to pay, then a person on te ground is simply not allowed to tell you the figure over the phone, as this doesn't give you all the information, as in, how that final figure is calculated.

 

All it does is create confusion, much like what you are experiencing right now, as there are so many figures being quoted, you don't actually know which is the figure you are looking for.

 

If you reply back typing in exactly what the headings are for the amounts in question, we might have a better chance at telling you what you need to know.

 

Cheers

 

PJ

[nicolefrenzy]

hi

i told my area manager that i was not happy with the info i recieved and wanted copies of every item i have had over the past 6 years which is alot of things he has sent me a statement for a settled account and suprise suprise note says they cannot find agreement for mantainace and warranty. this is what it says for my cooker i got

 

advance 1706.76

charges 1024.80

full cost 1706.76

paid 2731.56

third 910.52

half 1365.78

deposit 0

goods cost 419.99

 

i am refusing to pay at the minute and have told them they can come and empty the metre on my tv but they will not be taking the money dont know who to turn to but feel i have been ripped off in a huge way should i go to the citizens advice?

[plumberjon]

Right.

 

In response to your imposing question "i am now refusing to pay can i do this?", my honest advice is NO, you must continue to pay what you have signed for until such time as you have managed to remove these additional items. Yes, you may argue that you weren't aware of what you were signing, but, if this can be proved, you MAY have a seperate case to request a refund of these charges if you were mis-sold them. There are certainly cases of this with BrightHouse.

 

The most important thing to remember when dealing with these guys is, despite how they might act with you, if you have a dispute, then you must abide by the terms of the agreement you signed, as they cannot then respond to any complaint you have by stating that YOU were in breach of contract. Keep the law on your side essentially.

 

Now, does it state anywhere on the contracts (agreements) that you have that this warranty cover is OPTIONAL? Does it state that it is an insurance?

 

If you have a copy of the terms and conditions, does it state (under the heading for the warranty cover) that there is a method for cancelling the warranty? Does it also state (under and insurance heading) what the terms are for you cancelling this?

 

Apologies for asking these "stabbing in the dark" type questions, but without seeing any of these T&C's for myself, I am a bit blind. Saying that, BrightHouse and BAYV and Perfect Homes, all operate in a very similar manner, the old Crazy Georges blueprint.

 

I would love to give you a quick fix button, but I am afraid this might take a little while longer, but be assured, I am on the case and we will get this situation sorted for you ASAP.

 

PJ

[Lefty]

My guess is that PAYV simply copied the T&Cs from BrightHouse (Crazy Georges) agreements - in fact, didn't you say, Jon, that THEIR "insurance company" was a dodgy Malta based operation too - just like BrightHouse?

 

Having said that, PAYV may have opted even further back to the dark and distant days of Radio Rentals, DER and Multi-Broadcast for their agreements - which means they're nothing more than a "simple hire" agreement with an "option to purchase" after a set period of time...

 

You REALLY need a copy of the T&Cs.

 

I echo Jon's advice regarding payment, though - you MUST keep the law on your side.

 

 

 

Cheers

Lefty

[nicolefrenzy]

thanks..

will scan a copy of the credit agrement just noticed that the latest agreement says, agreement modifying a hire purchase agreement and regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 think when i bought my tv in november they have re done the agreement which makes me think i maybe paying much more interest omg just looked and the interest is £1428 the tv was £979

[sweets-on-the-move]

buy as u view yer same tactics as brighthouse pry on vaunreale low income people.when u buy anything u get an agreement when u buy again they add on to your agreement and so on so these 3 yr agreements then overlap for futher 3 years when u buy anything else.but when u have a repairafter that 3 yrs although yur still paying for the goods u wont get it repaired i bought a tv 32 inch of them no arrears first thing i bought bought others since nearly 5 yrs later im still paying for the tv and it blew up at christmas and rang the repair service up sorry your not covered .so we getting texts offereing us tv new tale old one as part ex .so really not very good to deal with god knows what we paid television .....

[nicolefrenzy]

update..

 

buy as you view have told me today that they have not got copies of the original hp agreements going back to 2002 they only have the modified agreement from november 2008 which i already have my problem is that it doesnt say if i was charged warranty and maintance from previous agreements ie from all the goods i have had since 2002 only states what i owed under the earlier agreements a few points i need help with

 

1) they are chasing me for arrears but if they have not got copies of the original agreements how can they take me to court

 

2)i have no agreements other than 2008 modified agreement how do i find out if i have been paying maintance and warranty ?

 

3)do you think they are just telling me they have no orginal agreements because i have been paying maintance and warranty on everything since 2002? and they dont want me to find out

 

i really dont want to loose my tv can they take it back ?

[clemma]

If they have not got your original agreement, then they can not enforce it (in court or otherwise). Have you sent a formal, written request for your original credit agreement?

 

I only ask, because if they send you the 2008 one, or admit they do not have your original agreement IN WRITING, then you can dispute the whole thing

[plumberjon]

Right.

 

Could do with someone with some good CCA knowledge in relation to HP.

 

From what you have just said, by not having copies of your agreement, they have as good as put their foot in it. There are grounds here for you to claim that these agreements are unenforceable altogether.

 

I could be wrong, which is why I need an expert to clarify this.

 

In any case, they would need to have originals if they were to pursue you in court, even though BH or BAYV don't go down that route as it is to unreliable for them.

 

I certainly believe, that minimum, you are within your rights to get the warranty cancelled, and put in a claim to get all your monies back, as now they can't prove that you DID sign for the warranty or not!

 

PJ

[nicolefrenzy]

hi

i have not sent a sar yet because they keep telling me they will sort it out but was going to send one on friday, does it not matter they they have a copy of the amended agreement 2008 one can they not use that to take me to court i am confused by it all sorry.

[clemma]

CCA1974 Act does cover HP. However, the only information the agreement has to contain to make it enforceable is:

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

As they have stated they have not got the original agreement, then this renders the agreement unenforceable. That is why I need to know if a formal written request has been made to BAYV. You need to get all of this in writing!

 

As PJ states, if they cannot supply your original agreement then you can claim back all charges in regards to (what is effectively) PPI. Even with an enforceable agreement, these charges could be claimed back.

 

One other thing, to find out what charges have been applied, you can always send a Subject Access Request (costs £10) to which you should receive ALL information regarding your account since 2002.

[clemma]

No, they can not use the 2008 agreement to take you to court with. They MUST have the original agreement you signed in 2002. Have you sent this letter:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

Yours etc

 

PRINT your name, do not sign. Send a £1 postal order and post by recorded delivery. Once they reply to this (I am going to guess they will re-send the 2008 agreement), come back here and I will help you with your next steps.

 

I should also add that they have 12+2 working days to respond. After that the account is in dispute....

Edited February 24, 2009 by clemma

[nicolefrenzy]

thank you will send that letter first thing in the morning.xx

[clemma]

I have plenty more letters up my sleeve for when they reply

[plumberjon]

Good old Clemma, although she'll probably point out that I am actually older than her! Never mind!

 

Anyway, now we have got the bottom of this issue, the letter trail that Clemma will now guide you through will do the job, but do be prepared to be patient, as these things don't have a habit of happening quickly.

 

As you get contact from BAYV, keep us posted.

 

Cheers

 

PJ

[Lefty]

Just because the agreement(s) STARTED more than six years ago does NOT mean a copy of them is no longer available. The agreement(s) wouldn't have ended until 3 years later (2005), therefore, as that is less than six years ago, precise and detailed accounts and records of them are still available...

...or at least they SHOULD be!!!!

Cheers

Lefty

[nicolefrenzy]

thanks they just keep telling me they cannot find them in the archive ,was told this by the auditor, my area manager, the regional manager and today by the big bloke that came knocking wanting cash

[clemma]

If they have "destroyed" your agreement, then ask them for a copy of the "certificate of destruction"

[nicolefrenzy]

just a thought but can i really send a letter with the title "i do not aknowledge any debt to your company" when i have a coin metre stuck to the back of my tv

[clemma]

Yep.....the fact you have been paying them so far (especially as they admit to no agreement) can be seen as a "gift" to them. I have used this letter even though I had been maintaining payments.

 

Until they come up with a valid CCA, how can they claim you owe them £x amount of pounds? How do you know whether or not you have overpaid? Therefore, do you actually know FOR SURE that you still owe them money under the original 2002 agreement......

 

I must add that a lack of an enforceable agreement does not mean the debt does not exist. It just means they can take no action should you stop paying.

 

@Lefty - Can I also assume that if more than 2/3rds of this agreement has been paid, then BAYV can not take the television without a court order? Does it follow that an unenforceable agreement means that they can not go to court to get the repossession order to start with? Just a thought

Edited February 24, 2009 by clemma

[plumberjon]

I am pretty sure this is the case.

 

The first documentation the court is going to ask for is the agreement. It is after all this that is the legally binding bit, with the T&C's printed on the back.

 

If they cannot produce this then how can they ask a court to act upon it?

 

PJ