Any Other Jobseekers Out There?

[godpikachu]

If I were you, skip the job centre completely and go to your local college, you will find that they are very helpful and they can tell you what courses you would be entitled to study for free in your chosen field. There may also be a few more you fancy that you didn't think of before, then go back to the job centre and TELL THEM what you are doing and to find you a job, you may even get an EMA of £30 a week if you study over 12 hours.

 

Good luck.

 

unfortunatley, this doesnt work anymore, the dole dont like oyu going to college because they now class it as "not looking for work".

 

i know this because this time last year i was told by the dole office to look into doing college courses, so i nipped down to the local college to see what courses they could offer me.

 

the first shock came when they said that they no longer offer free courses for the unemployed, but do offer up to a 50% discount on the course fees...the cheapest course they had (which wasnt anything relevant to my skills or interests) was £45.

 

the second shock came when i went back to the dole and asked about doing courses, and they stated that if it was a full time course (anything over 16 hours), i would not be entitled to any JSA as attending college would mean i wasnt making myself available for work, and thus violated the jobseekers agreement.

in addition, if i took a course that was less than 16 hours a week, then my JSA would be adjusted accordingly, or more accuratley, they would just stop it entirely.

 

the only "free" courses that were available were ones through the dole office, and they were for things like basic english, basic maths, letter writing....ie, nothing to help me.

 

as for EMA, its only available to 16-18 year olds, unless theyve changed it since i last checked.

[WOOD73]

I have been signing on since mid december, last time I signed on I mentioned a course, and was told that the current job position is likely to last for quite some time, so it might be in my best interest to do a course 'to get a headstart', however if it was full time then I would not be available for work and hence not entitled to jsa.

I also would not be entitled to income support as there is no reason (healt,etc) that I could not get jsa.

the only option open is a student loan and child tax credit, I may even lose housing and council tax benefit.

My argument is, if I were a drug abuser, I could get is or jsa forever, however as I am a person who has been paying tax for the last 15 years or more, and quite a lot at times, I would have to borrow money and get into a lot of debt in order to live, so that I can improve my chances of finding a job and never burdening the state again.

now I'm not racist and I dont judge, but I think some rules about non british nationals taking jobs are in order, considering the current employment situation, could you imagine what would happen if 2 million brits moved to france and took up employment??

[godpikachu]

My argument is, if I were a drug abuser, I could get is or jsa forever,

 

yes, drug addicts/alcoholics can also be entitled to claim incapcity benefit, should their addiction be debilitating enough that it prevents them from working...

Its yeat ANOTHER double standard introduced by the new labour busybodies to hold the hands of the supposed "less fortunate".

 

i have a better idea...take all the drug addicts and long term alcoholics out into a field..then shoot them...works out cheaper in the long run as it eliminates the need for benefit payments, frees up housing, reduces crime and also the state can make a few extra quid by charging people for the right to shoot an unperson.

 

now I'm not racist and I dont judge, but I think some rules about non british nationals taking jobs are in order, considering the current employment situation,

 

i totally agree with this 100%, british jobs should be for british people, NOT foreigners.

 

could you imagine what would happen if 2 million brits moved to france and took up employment??

 

i can tell you right now what would happen, our overseas workers would be charged stupid amounts of tax on any money they earned, or would be deported.

thats if they were actually granted a visa to work in france anyway, because unlike our government, the french government values its own workforce, and as with most EU member states, you have to have a damn good reason for being invited to work in their respective countries.

 

In the current employment crisis, the UK needs to say a resounding NO to migrant workers, we need to free up jobs here for our own people by expelling foreign workers from the country, and we need to follow the rest of europes example in taxing any that remain heavilly.

[skonk]

As you mention drug addicts, I must tell you this little tale. Back in 2002, I got myself a job. It was only 18 hours a week, but I hated being unemployed, so took it. Asked them about pay, they said I had to work a month in hand, and as I started two weeks i, it would be 6 weeks til I got money. Went to the dole and told them I will have no money for 6 weeks at all. They said,"Ah yeah, but after them 6 weeks, you will be £6 a week better and you'll be working!!" After a few words, was told to go get a crisis loan.

 

Went to the DHSS, told them the situation. Their answer? We can't give you anything. You have to get an overdaft or a sub on your wages. So I had to go to the bank, laugh, as I asked for an overdraft, and laugh along with the bank girl about them not being able to give me an overaft as...Yes!! I wasn't working and din't have any money going in.

 

Asked my new boss about the possibility of a sub on my wages, another laugh, followed by, er no, we don't do that, and besides, you haven't started yet. So it was back to the DHSS.

 

Told them all this, then was told to wait til I was called. 2 hours later, I'm called in. Offered the huge amount of £36. I asked if that was per week, and was told, oh no, It's just £36. Was told I can turn it down. Chances are, I won't get anything, but I had no other option to wait and see if they can increase it.

 

Where do the drug addicts come into this, I hear you ask? Well, after being in the office for 5 whole hours, a drug person came through the doors, whistling, and sat next to me. Straight away, you could tell he was completely off his box, he starts asking what I was in for. Crisis loan, I said, but they've offered me £36. He said to me," Ah! You should be like me!! I phone them in the morning, tell them I need a giro for my methadone, then book an appointment to come pick it up!!"

 

No longer had he been there 5 mins, his name is called, goes in and returns with a giro for £300!! Good luck, mate! he says on the way out. I then get called in, and get offered £90, take it or leave it. Took me a year to pay off money I borrowed to pay my bills and rent, whereas, I should've just shot up in some dirty bedsit and not had to worry about anything.

 

Before anyone says, yeah, but isn't it better to not be a druggie and know you've earnt your money. I agree, to a certain extent, but when the people inpower, who are there to help people out, by getting them back to work, don't, then it's just a smack in the teeth, and that old chestnut rears it head. You get nothing in this world by being good.

[WebFerret]

I have been reading these posts with interest, as (although I'm currently gainfully employed), I have been in similar positions to yourselves from time to time and received similar outragious treatment.

 

It is true that the whole 'system' is 'broken' and only seems to benifit those who have no interest at all in working within our society for the benifit of the country as a whole.

 

It's all very well expressing your discust here, but you all really need to write to your local MP's and hound them with your experience of improper treatment - after all you currently have the time to do such things, and this IMHO would be the only way the current situation could be forced to change. (hopefully for the better!)

 

Imagine local MP's receiving 2 million complaint letters from disgruntalled GENUINE job seekers! - I don't think that event could be ignored!

 

Seriously, pester your MP's, send details of your direct experiences (as have been posted here) and demand that something positive is done to correct your poor treatment.

 

I wish you all good luck in finding work.

[Happyfeet24]

i have a better idea...take all the drug addicts and long term alcoholics out into a field..then shoot them...works out cheaper in the long run as it eliminates the need for benefit payments, frees up housing, reduces crime and also the state can make a few extra quid by charging people for the right to shoot an unperson.

 

Godpikachu,

 

I, to an extent, understand your comments. I understand the background to the comments you've made and to a degree I have supported you.

 

What you have done is to sterotype people. You've grouped a 'category' of people and included them into your paragraph.

 

My sister who lost her daughter at 18 months old, who could no longer cope so turned to alcohol who then became alcohol dependent, does not deserve to be taken to a feild and shot because it works out cheaper for you.

 

She needs help.

 

But your attitude is noted.

[Happyfeet24]

Infact,

 

you've shown your your true self with that opinion.

 

Many people have issues and need help.

 

Many people lose their jobs and need help, yet I don't see you threatning to shoot them because it costs you money?

[godpikachu]

Godpikachu,

 

What you have done is to sterotype people. You've grouped a 'category' of people and included them into your paragraph.

 

My sister who lost her daughter at 18 months old, who could no longer cope so turned to alcohol who then became alcohol dependent, does not deserve to be taken to a feild and shot because it works out cheaper for you.

 

She needs help.

 

But your attitude is noted.

 

Im sorry to hear about your sister, losing a baby is a traumatic experience so it is understandable why her outlet for her anguish would be to turn to alcohol.

I went on a simarlar self destructive path myself when I lost a much loved relative, and it was only with the help of my friends and family that I managed to get myself out of the situation.

 

However, my post was intended to refer to the type of people who have no interntion of working, and simply fall back on drugs and alcohol, paid for with taxpayers money.

 

We have all seen the sort I mean, the type of people that you see at 8am on your way to work hanging around town centres with a bottle of cheap cider in their hand and looking like they havent seen soap and water for years. Most types like this are also heroin users, as they drink to ease the symptoms of heroine withdrawal, pretty much like the type of guy skonk described, no doubt the £300 giro he got went straight on heroin and cheap alcohol.

 

Simarlaly, one morning outside work (at bout 7:45 am) i was stood smoking a cigarette, and a woman walked past on the opposite side of the street, pushing a pushchair with one hand and drinking a can of special brew with the other.

The push chair didnt contain a child, it contained 2 crates of carling lager, and hooked over the handlebar of the chair was a carrier bag bulging with more cans.

 

These are the sort of people who are a drain on the system, who have little or no skills and who are only good for drawing giros and making babies, these are the sort who should be shot.

[WOOD73]

not meaning to tar everyone with the same brush, but I agree with godpikachu, there are a certain element who have no desire to work, or try to live a respectable life.

Those who deserve the help, who have paid into the system for years, are not getting it because of these people who's only goal in life is to get money given to them and do nothing.

I was at one point paying over £100 per week in stoppages, and here I am being told that if I go to college to gain qualifications to get a job, then I have to get into thousands of £s of debt just to live, then when I graduate and get a well paid job, I have to hand over a portion of my own hard earned cash to the system that didnt want to know me when I needed the help!

If thats a fair system, then I'll eat my hat.

[Happyfeet24]

Ok, I accept what you're saying Godpikachu,

 

I understand your reply to what I said, and agree to that point.

 

But again, you're still just pointing out what we all see on the way to the job centre. I for one (up my own ar*e) had an excellent job, all the qualifications, years of work to get them, years of 'on the job' experince, and now it all means zilch.

 

But these drug addicts/boozers, how many of them do you know 100% haven't been put in that situation because of the economy?

 

I struggle, I have no money, the only reason I still have £90 spare to spend a week on my kids is because I found CAG, but before that it was going on DCA's and was destroying me.

 

Times are harder than ever. People are getting desperate. I've met people that haven't found CAG that are seriously in trouble and can't cope.

 

How do you know that the people you are refering to aren't victoms of the economy? (they have no money, they give up!)

 

People are losing their houses.

 

Single mothers, well, I know they're the butt of many jokes but times have changed. DCA's love to get theit teeth into them. If they haven't found CAG then their lives are in many cases hell.

 

The point is that every type of class is in trouble, just because I walk past you in the day time when Jeremy Kyle is on TV does not mean I don't want to work. Infact, if that's whatt you think about me, then what about my poor husband? he had an excellent career, but was made redundent because his company was going out. When he walks to the shop with me and the kids on a Monday morning, he gets the most evil looks ever, almost like 'you jobless ****'.

 

Yes there are real people that refuse to work and they play the system, but you need to understand that they are now rare. Yes, really, they are.

 

but one thing this economys trouble has shown is that now decent people are getting drawn into the 'sterotype'

 

 

mark my words, we are starting to turn on each other as money becomes scarce.

[Happyfeet24]

Post 59#

 

I don't need to quote you,

 

but this is whats happening....

 

it'll get worse,

 

those working will hate those that are not so much that individual circumstances will not matter,

 

it'll be those that are working are = helping the government

 

and those not = a drain on the economy

 

there will huge problems. Mark my words.

[WOOD73]

It has always been that way to an extent, but you can see the difference between the workers and non workers when you go to the local jobcentre.

it will no doubt get worse, but my main argument is that when your trying to help yourself you get penalised, maybe thats why so many just settle in to the claiming system, because theres no encouragement to get out of it!

[Happyfeet24]

We're a family of 4.

 

My husband supported us and we paid our way.

 

The economy went wrong and he lost his job. Not because he didn't want it, was a drunk, druggy or anything like that!, it was just simply because of the economy created by someone other than us.

 

He now can't get a job as well paid as he once had.

 

we have tax credits and child benefit, housing benefit and council tax benefit (ooooh aren't we ****)

 

anyway,

 

to take the jobs on offer we would lose all of that, except the child benefit, we would get working tax credits instead of child tax credits.

 

Either way, if my OH took the jobs offered at the moment then we wouldn't be able to afford to pay rent and live.

 

Yet, if he stays as he is, then we can just about afford to live and we have no worries about losing our house.

 

If you had 2 kids then what would you do???

 

does this make us **** and a drain?

 

No!

 

it's just that this is the situation we're in and we have to live. We don't like it but that's life

[WOOD73]

I actually do have 2 kids, and am in exactly the same position, and I do agree, if a job came my way right now it would have to be well paid in order for me to benefit at all, but I would rather be working than sitting around even if I am no better off.

 

I have to say however that if a job came along and I would be worse off then I would think twice before taking it. again it all comes back to the government not doing enough to make it worthwhile to go to work.

[Gilbert_O'Sullivan]

If you are in a disadvantaged group, ie an ex jailbird or ethnic, then you get priority for certain jobs via Local Employment Partnerships, Royal Mail now only take on these people!

 

Why should somebody who may have beaten up old grannies in the past get more of a look in for a job than someone who might have worked hard all their life and has just been made redundant?

 

Its scandlous.

[Surfer01]

unfortunatley, this doesnt work anymore, the dole dont like oyu going to college because they now class it as "not looking for work".

 

in addition, if i took a course that was less than 16 hours a week, then my JSA would be adjusted accordingly, or more accuratley, they would just stop it entirely.

 

the only "free" courses that were available were ones through the dole office, and they were for things like basic english, basic maths, letter writing....ie, nothing to help me.

quote]

 

I have started a course on Excel and as long as it does nto take up more than 15 hours of my time, there is no issue. I also pointed out to them that although I may be on JSA they do not control my life 24/7and what i do in my free timke is no concern of theirs. The college nearest us offers the course free but you need to pay the admin and exam fee. I also inquired about cost of transport there and back and it is possible but an adviser needs to assess th cost. I would say still do the course, but do one that is part time and perhaps consider an evening class but where the hours are less than 15 hours per week.

[Surfer01]

So when is everything likely to recover?

 

On on past experience, it should bottom out in about late 2010, that is when people stop losing their jobs. Early 2011 it will start to pick up very slowly but nothing to get excited about. Mid to late 2012 things will start to look better but definitley far from rosy. To fully recover you are looking at about 2014/15.

[zazen.warrior]

Either way, if my OH took the jobs offered at the moment then we wouldn't be able to afford to pay rent and live.

 

Working people on low incomes can still claim local housing allowance or whatever it is called these days.

[WOOD73]

Working people on low incomes can still claim local housing allowance or whatever it is called these days.

 

I agree this is true, but have you ever tried claiming it?

when I was self employed last year and I tried to claim they sent an officer round to the house and they wanted to know the in's and out's of a ducks backside, they even asked me to prove my wife didnt earn anything! how do you do that?

I had an account with nationwide and you can transfer money into virtual savings accounts online - they needed proper statements of these accounts, which are impossible to get as they are accounts which dont really exist, but it took 3 months for me to explain this to about 4 different people who didnt really grasp it in the end, and then they refused my claim anyway, because they couldnt understand that when the business was going downhill, the pittance I had going into my account from the business a/c was withdrawn and put back into the business.

all in all it was a waste of time.

[godpikachu]

ive never figured out why i am not able to claim housing and council tax benefit.

 

due to not being able to afford my own place, i am living with my mum, but every time i put a claim in for housing and/or council tax benefit, they state that i am not entitled to it as i am living with relatives..erm, i still have rent to pay (basically i pay my mum board which goes towards bills and the mortgage), and as im living here the council tax takes that into account as well.

 

so, its ok for the council to charge my mum for me living here (its a private house btw, not a council house), but its not ok for me to claim whats rightly mine to pay towards their fresh air tax.

 

I have started a course on Excel and as long as it does nto take up more than 15 hours of my time, there is no issue. I also pointed out to them that although I may be on JSA they do not control my life 24/7and what i do in my free time is no concern of theirs.

The college nearest us offers the course free but you need to pay the admin and exam fee. I also inquired about cost of transport there and back and it is possible but an adviser needs to assess th cost. I would say still do the course, but do one that is part time and perhaps consider an evening class but where the hours are less than 15 hours per week.

 

like i said, my local college no longer offers free courses, you have to pay for the tuition AND admin and exam fees. i wouldnt mind if these courses cost £5-£10 but they dont, they cost £45 minimum, thats the best part of a weeks money.

 

I agree with you about the dole office not being allowed to control your life 24/7, but the dole i attend are really nazi-esque. ANYTHING you do they want to know about, every time i go to sign on they give me 20 questions about what jobs i have applied for and what ive been doing to look for work, its like being interrogated sometimes. also, they have a habit of entering what you have said onto the records, one time i mentioned that i was going to meet my friend after signing on, then the next time i went to sign on they asked me what i had met them for ?!?....i told them it was none of their business and the woman said that i should be out looking for work and not socialising (incidentally, all i did was meet my friend, then i dropped off an application form and called in at an agency before we went and had a spot of dinner.hardly socialising)

Edited January 26, 2009 by godpikachu

[Gilbert_O'Sullivan]

On on past experience, it should bottom out in about late 2010, that is when people stop losing their jobs. Early 2011 it will start to pick up very slowly but nothing to get excited about. Mid to late 2012 things will start to look better but definitley far from rosy. To fully recover you are looking at about 2014/15.

 

I'd say past experience counts for little as there has never been a crisis in the past the same as what we have now.

 

Just before Xmas a fiscal expert on the news said he expected the downturn to be short and sharp and recovery by the end of 2009, just last week he now says it is much worse than expected and there will be at least a two years of hell and he couldn't even say that was for sure.

 

The housing market with high property values will never return, just like had happened in Japan 20 years ago-even now they are about 25% down on the high of 2 decades ago!

 

Consumer credit will also never again be as easy to get, this includes mortgages.

 

And don't forget that an election will take place within a year or so yet nobody knows what the tories will do because they won't say!

 

But on past experience of them, if you are down now you will be down as long as they are around should they get in, God help.

[WOOD73]

 

the dole i attend are really nazi-esque.

 

 

I think that's par for the course with any government dept that deals with the public.

 

in our local jobcentre, they walk around as if they are god and we are peasants begging.

communism is alive and kicking in this country, stalin would be proud!

[389shell]

Lol!

 

My local MP is James Purnell, God help me

[WebFerret]

Workers made redundant in recession should receive higher benefits

Workers made redundant in recession should receive higher benefits - Telegraph

 

[skonk]

Interesting reading, but this caught my eye...

 

"Everyone deserves a fair shot and the chance to fulfil their potential. So support and encouragement should be there for people when they are out of work.

"But in return for support, people must take responsibility for making the most of opportunities.

"If people choose not to engage or to cheat the system, they should face strong and certain consequences. High expectations are good for people; writing them off is an intolerable waste of talent and potential."

 

 

 

Why should people who get made redundant get more benefit than the people already looking for work? Is he basically saying that the majority of people on the dole are cheats, and the people who are getting made redundant the only genuine job seekers out there? Of course there are people who are cheating the system, but there are many who aren't, and you only have to read this thread to see this.

 

 

Of course, this will never happen, but it does show that a massive overhaul of the system is long overdue, but that won't happen either.