Natwest taking me to court ***All 3 Claims Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

Yep as CB stated you will need to get your WS to them by 13th. Gez said he would assist you with the WS, take him up on his offer.I will vet the final draft don't worry.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

OK - Plan of Action for tomorrow

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Sorry, so I'll get the Wasted Costs (which I will be adding extra hours onto at this rate) application in asap! I need to add some extra disbursements in (thxs CitizenB) and complete the relevant forms.

 

 

 

x

 

Try to match their summons amount pound for pound:lol:

[texanbar]

Oh Andy, one more thing,

 

I think we're going to go for the transcripts of the previous hearing where the claim was struck out, we shall attach this to our response and WS.

 

x

[AndyOrch]

Oh Andy, one more thing,

 

I think we're going to go for the transcripts of the previous hearing where the claim was struck out, we shall attach this to our response and WS.

 

x

 

 

Absolutely and also refer within the WS as " Mr xxxx xxxx District Judge stated ............ at the hearing dated xxx County Court xxxx etc etc ...."

[texanbar]

You can bet your bottom dollar this is exactly what we'll be doing! All going to plan, Mr Tex can hand-deliver the WC application in on Monday and at the same time hand in the relevant forms to get the transcripts process in place. Pending costs, we may even pay the extra 20% to get them within 48 hours. I'll get in touch with Gez and get the WS sorted and hopefully by then the transcripts will have arrived and this can be added.

 

Thxs Andy - you've really lifted my spirits this evening

x:)x

x

[AndyOrch]

Thxs Andy - you've really lifted my spirits this evening

x:)x

 

 

Well thats the main thing Tex don't let these Muppet's get you down.Speak to you early next week.

 

Andy

[gezwee]

Tex

 

I'll have a read tomorrow......... when I'm sober, lol

 

We'll get something put together in good time, not so sure you'll be able to get your hands on the transcripts before the 13th though so it may be prudent to start writing down as much as you can remember from the last hearing. If you're not sure of what was said or the intent of the dj prob best not to include [for now].

 

If you get time tomorrow, have a squint at their WS again and start pencilling some notes next to each paragraph saying [in your own words] how and why you dispute their statement of events....... if you bring one or 2 paragraphs into question from the onset the rest will gradually fail and lose any weight if this goes before the dj........... accuracy is not their strong point, they can't seem to remember the effective year of cause.

 

Gez

[gezwee]

Tex

 

Sorry, thought of something else......... have they issued you or your o/h with any statements of account between initial claim date and filing of this one?

 

Have they given any indication of how the value has risen? If this has been via CMS the value will include legal fees for their previous failed attempts

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Hi Gez,

 

Many thanks for your assistance with our claim. Okay, they have issued both myself and OH with bank statements which are dated from 03/08/2004-19/10/2010. The last amount on the statement is £6237.92 which is the exact figure NW/IM are claiming on Mr Tex's claim (exc. their costs).

 

However, the £6237.92 has at least £2000 worth of charges/interest on there.

 

I'm working on the WC now, so this will follow shortly

 

Tex

 

 

Tex

 

Sorry, thought of something else......... have they issued you or your o/h with any statements of account between initial claim date and filing of this one?

 

Have they given any indication of how the value has risen? If this has been via CMS the value will include legal fees for their previous failed attempts

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Sorry, also think you are right regarding transcripts. The process is so long-winded I will be amazed if we get them in time. Once we have got some quotes from the transcribers, the court has 7-10 working days to get the tape to them. Even if we pay the extra 20% to get them transcribed within 48 hours, they have to be approved by the DJ before we can even use them for our WS. Considering we only have 10-11 working days, realistically, this is a big ask.

 

That said, Mr Tex will call the transcribers tomorrow and see if they have any experience in dealing with NCC and how fast these things may take.

I shall definitely use some of the intent from the DJ for his WS though as we can remember quite alot (see my post #358).

 

Anyway, off to spend time on the WC now...

x:)x

[texanbar]

Hi all,

 

Okay, I have updated the WC to show a figure of £100, here it is:

 

 

WASTEDCOSTS APPLICATION - FIRST DRAFT

 

TheClaimant commenced proceedings in relation to an agreement regulated under TheConsumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Theproceedings constituted re-litigation and were an abuse of process. The firstand second set of proceedings were defended and the Defendant applied to thecourt for an order that the proceedings be struck out. Currently a third setof proceedings are going through?

 

At all times the Defendant was a Litigant in Person within the meaning ofLitigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and time spent by theDefendant is charged herein at an hourly rate of £18.00.

 

The nature of the case being one of re-litigation required the Defendantto spend time in locating and examining the documents and other papers whichrelated to the proceedings of 2009 which had been begun by the originalcreditor on 05 January 2009 and have continued until December 2011 by theClaimant.

 

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in considering and understandingnumerous strands of law including the law of consumer credit, the law oflimitation and practice and procedure in the County Court which was achievedthrough internet and library research.

 

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in drawing his defence andapplication to defend and strike out in a way which complied with the relevantrules and practice directions of the CPR. The Defendant was further obliged to defend asecond set of proceedings brought by the Claimant on 06 July 2011 despitereceiving a Notice of Discontinuance on 07 April 2011 and its effect upon thelitigation and his consequential rights and obligations to include his rightsand obligations upon the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practicedirections of the CPR in reference to the detailed assessments of costs asapplied to Litigants in Person.

 

The following is a statement of the work done in the course of theproceedings. Where there is a charge for time spent, the amount of timerecorded as spent represents the Defendants fair estimate of the amount of timespent by her.

 

Date

Description

 

Hours of work claimed £

 

05.01.09

Particulars of first claim received from Claimant

 

1

 

14.01.09

Acknowledgement of Service submitted to court

 

1

 

30.01.09

Embarrassed defence prepared and submitted to court

 

2

 

09.01.09

CPR 31.14 request letter sent to Claimant

 

1

 

09.01.09

CCA 77 request letter sent to Claimant 09.01.09

 

1

 

25.03.09

Allocation Questionnaire completed and submitted to court

 

1

 

19.06.01

Amended POC received from Claimant

 

1

 

06.07.09

Amended defence prepared and submitted to court

 

4

 

14.07.09

Offer made Pursuant to Part 36 CPR received from Claimant

 

1

 

17.07.09

Defendant's response letter regarding Part 36 CPR sent to Claimant

 

2

 

29.08.09

Rejection letter from Claimant - resent Defendant's proposal of repayment

 

1

 

04.11.09

Defendant's Notice of Application to strike out (N244)

 

PAID: court Fee £40.00

 

 

 

4

 

08.02.09

Hearing date for N244 application 08.02.09

 

23.12.09

Order from Court the Claim is stayed

 

09.04.11

Notice of Discontinuance received from Claimant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date

Description

 

Hours of work claimed £

 

09.07.11

Particulars of second claim received from Claimant

 

1

 

12.07.11

Defendant's Notice of Application to strike out (N244)

 

PAID: court Fee £40.00

 

 

 

2

 

12.07.11

Acknowledgement of Service submitted to court

 

1

 

08.08.11

Defendants defence preparation and submitted to court

 

4

 

18.10.11

N244 Hearing date

 

17.08.11

Letter to Claimants solicitor regarding 2 companies suing for same debt

 

1

 

05.10.11

Particulars of third claim received from Claimant [against husband]

 

1

 

18.10.11

Hearing (2nd claim) - case struck out

 

12.07.11

Husband [Defendant] Notice of Application to strike out (N244)

 

PAID: court Fee £75.00

 

 

 

4

 

12.07.11

Claimants lodge application for Summary Judgment to be heard at same time as N244 claim

 

 

 

 

20.12.11

Hearing date for N244 and Summary Judgment

 

 

TOTAL

 

34

 

 

 

 

Work Done

 

Searching forand locating the papers and other documents relating to the 1993 proceedings (4hrs) £72

 

Researchregarding consumer credit law, law of limitation law regarding re-litigation(15 hrs) £0.00

 

Receiving andconsidering Notice of Discontinuance (1 hr) £0.00

 

Researchregarding CPR 38.7 and CPR 44.12 (10 hrs) £00

 

Researchregarding detailed assessment proceedings and Litigants in Person (Costs andExpenses) Act 1975 (10 hrs) £0.00

 

Preparing billof costs and notice of commencement of costs proceedings (6 hrs) £0.00

 

Time spent in telephone calls, letters and emails written and received (250hrs) £0.00

 

Disbursements £0.00

[Travel time, postage, printer costs, paper used in bundles, stationary etc]

 

Summary

 

Costs payableby the Claimant £0.00

 

Disbursements(court fee) £75.00

 

Total costspayable to the Defendant £0.00

Edited December 4, 2011 by texanbar

[texanbar]

I've now looking to complete the N252 form and a little confused.

 

The form is asking for a claim number, which claim number should I put in, my first, second or third?

 

Any advice would be great.

x

[texanbar]

Apologies, I'm going to be placing questions on here as I go down the form

 

Under the Claimant, should I put myself, Mr Tex or joint?

x:)x

[gezwee]

Hi Gez,

 

Many thanks for your assistance with our claim. Okay, they have issued both myself and OH with bank statements which are dated from 03/08/2004-19/10/2010. The last amount on the statement is £6237.92 which is the exact figure NW/IM are claiming on Mr Tex's claim (exc. their costs).

 

However, the £6237.92 has at least £2000 worth of charges/interest on there.

 

I'm working on the WC now, so this will follow shortly

 

Tex

 

Hi Tex

 

Have the statements been issued in the normal course of business [monthly etc], or have they only been sighted in litigation?

 

What year was o/h details attached to account?

 

Thanks

 

Gez

[texanbar]

On the application form it says:

 

Following an (insert name of document eg. order, judgment) dated ( ) (copy attached) I have prepared by Bill of Costs for assessment. The Bill totals *£0.00 If you choose to dispute this bill and your objections are not upheld at the assessment hearing the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £0(together with interest (see note below)). I shall also seek the costs of the assessment hearing.

 

 

 

What do I place in the brackets please? and I have put the right figures in?

 

Sorry!

x

Edited December 4, 2011 by texanbar

[gezwee]

Tex

 

This is the sticking point......... Andy's far better versed in CPR than I but............. I have a feeling you'd need to be joined to lay claim to costs in the 3rd. Not a huge problem as 99% of costs are effective in cases 1 & 2 - this is leverage after all

 

Last case [2nd] should be the effective claim number as it encompasses all litigation to date [with the exception of o/h]

 

I may be well off the mark with this so hold fire for Andys comments

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

Don't include the third Tex (complicates matters) just you single defendant.We can deal with no 3 as and when.No 3 its still a matter of litigation and as yet to be resolved.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited December 4, 2011 by Andyorch

[texanbar]

Hi Gez,

 

No the statements have only been sighted in litigation. I cannot recollect when I actually opened the account as a single account but according to the WS provided by IM it states:

Point 9 - The a/c which is the subject matter of the proceedings is a joint current a/c (sort code ... ac no...) held by the Defendant (Mr Tex) and Mrs Tex which was opened on 31 October 1994. Due to the age of the a/c, the Bank no longer has copies of the account opening forms.

 

I know I definitely had the a/c in March 1995 (I can remember that as I was due to start a new job!) so maybe the account was opened in October 1994. However, I could not tell you when Mr Tex was added and the account became a joint account - it most certainly was not at the time of opening.

 

Sorry - at some time between 1995-2001 he was added.

 

Tex

 

 

 

Hi Tex

 

Have the statements been issued in the normal course of business [monthly etc], or have they only been sighted in litigation?

 

What year was o/h details attached to account?

 

Thanks

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

Following an (i order, ) dated ( xxxxxx ) (copy attached) I have prepared by Bill of Costs for assessment. The Bill totals *£XXXX.00 If you choose to dispute this bill and your objections are not upheld at the assessment hearing the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £XXXXX (together with interest (see note below)). I shall also seek the costs of the assessment hearing.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Andyorch

[texanbar]

Great okay thanks Andy, I'll complete the form with the 'order' on there.

 

I will however need to amend my schedule of costs as I have included Mr Tex's work for the third claim in there.

x:)x

[gezwee]

Hi Tex

 

Are you both named as witnesses in current app to strike?

 

If so, prepare two statements, 1 for hubby......... gear his toward Henderson + abuse and intransigence of claimant, don't make it overtly obvious though its a statement no need for legalese....... and 1 for you - you get away with being far more aggressive in stance, not as in raaaaaa give me my money you muppets ;-) Temper it but make sure the dj is aware of your feelings by the time he/she has finished reading it. You can include reference to costs within yours. Hubby can alude to it but can't really associate one with the other until sj is heard and disposed of [catch 22].

 

As for statements of account, Natwest have a habit of hiding behind telford......... bet they'll swear blind you were sent them every month though

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Hi Gez,

 

Only Mr Tex is named in the application to strike so I would only need to do a WS for him. Although I would have loved to have placed my stance on it! Have you a link to the Henderson + abuse and intransigence of claimant, if not I'll do a search.

 

Thxs Gez

x

[gezwee]

Tex

 

Okey dokey, what about at aq stage of current claim? Need to get you both in there one way or another...... were mr and mrs tex named or included as witnesses 1 and 2 within N150?

 

Try searching on here [and google] for Henderson v henderson, it effectively set the standard for Joint and several claims - as for the abuse and intransigence angle, thats where semantics of WS will have greatest effect.......,Andy referred to it earlier with reference to dj's comments at previous hearing, dj's are a clicky bunch and if a claimant disregards a colleagues directions [whether implied or ordered] woe betide them if they try it on at a later date.

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Hi Gez,

 

Mr Tex's current claim didn't get to the aq stage as after submitting the defence, we completed the N244 form for strike out. The only connection NW refer to us as husband and wife/joint account is on IM's WS.

 

I shall do the search now and do the WS accordingly.

 

I have completed the WC - do I send the N252 form to IM or the courts? Also, how do I get the courts to look at this at the same time as Mr Tex's hearing and the SJ hearing?

 

x:)x

[gezwee]

Hi Tex

 

Their reference to you should be enough to swing it with the dj, prepare 2 W/S for the hearing

 

N252 to court for sealing, usual protocol would be to serve costs on other side first and give them the opportunity to setlle...... but in this instance file and serve the N252, saves copying the same info again.

 

Everything should be heard at the same time or adjourned to a later date when more time can be allocated. Hearing would normally follow logic, if part can be disposed of it moves on to the next, if the first part wins at the first hurdle its concluded save costs. Hearing should go as follows:

 

1. SJ and witness statements for both sides

2. If SJ fails, strike out app is the next logical step

3. Assessment for costs in cases 1 & 2

4. Application for costs in 3

 

Gez