Natwest taking me to court ***All 3 Claims Discontinued***

[texanbar]

Coolio - will do exactly that

 

So I just take my claim form into the courts and get them to seal and stamp it before I post to IM?

 

Going to call it a night tonight - thxs so, so much.

 

Tex

x

 

Hi Tex

 

Their reference to you should be enough to swing it with the dj, prepare 2 W/S for the hearing

 

N252 to court for sealing, usual protocol would be to serve costs on other side first and give them the opportunity to setlle...... but in this instance file and serve the N252, saves copying the same info again.

 

Everything should be heard at the same time or adjourned to a later date when more time can be allocated. Hearing would normally follow logic, if part can be disposed of it moves on to the next, if the first part wins at the first hurdle its concluded save costs. Hearing should go as follows:

 

1. SJ and witness statements for both sides

2. If SJ fails, strike out app is the next logical step

3. Assessment for costs in cases 1 & 2

4. Application for costs in 3

 

Gez

[texanbar]

So is the SJ hearing done before our N244 strike out hearing

 

Tex

x:)x

[AndyOrch]

This is from an old thread posted by X20 Tex worth a read.

 

What to do Next

Complete the bill adapting the narrative to your personal experience in terms of actual work done and actual time spent. Feel free to add to it where I have not imagined work which you actually did. Insert the dates and sign and date the bill.

 

Next complete Form N252 available from the HMCS website here.

 

You will ned to complete the court and party details in the box on the RHS.

 

The draft N242 I have completed gives the position as if my figures were used. Where the total used in the bill is to be different, put that figure in the first figure box where N252 says: ‘The bill totals £xxx.xx’. (figure [1])

 

Next, add £300.00 to figure [1] and put whatever this figure in the next box where N252 says:

the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £xxx.xx). (figure [2]).

 

Next insert a date in the box before which is written: ‘You must serve your points of dispute by’. This date will be a date being not less than 21 days after the date on which your opponent receives the bill and the N252. In practice, add 25 days to the date on which you post the bill out to your opponent. If that date should fall on a Saturday or Sunday, insert the date for the following Monday.

 

Next fill out the box which provides a name and address at which the opposition may deliver any response to the bill of costs. The response will be entitled ‘Points of Dispute’. I don’t imagine one will arrive and if one does, how to deal with it will be dealt with in a later advice.

 

Next, leave the box beginning: ‘I certify that I have also served’ blank

 

Next, at the very end of the bill is a third figure box before which is written ‘If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate

for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £’ . In this box take the figure [1] and add £45.00 to it. This is the figure which goes in this box (figure [3]).

 

Print the N252 off, sign and date it.

 

Next, send the bill and the N252 off to the opposition’s solicitor.

 

After Having Sent the Bill and N252.

Make a note when the 25 days will be up.

 

I would expect the opposition to make contact with you in an attempt to settle the question of your costs. So as to avoid hassle and heartache, I would be prepared to settle at anything which came to about one third rather than two thirds of the hypothetical solicitor’s bill. On my example, that would be around £300.00 plus the court fee. You may want to settle at something less just to be shot of it.

 

If any offer comes in which is wildly below £300.00 post to this site for advice. I would imagine the opposition will be very keen to settle since objecting will tie them into expense they will wish to avoid and any savings will soon be wiped out by employing a solicitor to deal with the objections.

 

When the cheque comes in, make a donation to CAG.

 

If you have not heard from the opposition by when the 25 days are up you will be entitled to apply to the court for a default costs certificate. When that moment arrives, post here.

 

Any queries, just ask.

 

x20

 

 

B E T W E E N:

Claimant

-and-

Defendant

DEFENDANT’S BILL OF COSTS

After Service of the Claimant’s Notice of Discontinuance.

Costs Payable by the Claimant

CPR 38.6 and CPR 44.12(1)(d)

2

The Claimant commenced proceedings in relation to an agreement regulated under The

Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant was the assignee of a judgment obtained by the

original creditor to the agreement in the Shoreditch county court in 1993. The proceedings

constituted re litigation and were an abuse of process. The proceedings were defended and

the Defendant applied to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out.

On (date) the Claimant served Notice of Discontinuance of the whole of its claim.

At all times the Defendant was a Litigant in Person within the meaning of Litigants in Person

(Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and time spent by the Defendant is charged herein at an

hourly rate of £9.25.

The nature of the case being one of re litigation required the Defendant to spend time in

locating and examining the documents and other papers which related to the proceedings of

1993 which had been begun by the original creditor and in considering the way in which the

1993 proceedings affected the proceedings begun by the Claimant.

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in considering and understanding numerous strands

of law including the law of consumer credit, the law of limitation and practice and procedure in

the County Court which he achieved through internet and library research.

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in drawing his defence and application to strike out

in a way which complied with the relevant rules and practice directions of the CPR. The

Defendant was further obliged to consider the Notice of Discontinuance and its effect upon the

litigation and his consequential rights and obligations to include his rights and obligations upon

the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practice directions of the CPR in reference to

the detailed assessments of costs as applied to Litigants in Person.

The following is a statement of the work done in the course of the proceedings. Where there is

a charge for time spent, the amount of time recorded as spent represents the Defendants fair

estimate of the amount of time spent by him

Claimed (£)

1 Date

Particulars of claim

2 Date

Acknowledgment of Service

3 Date

Defence

3

4 Date

Defendant's Notice of Application

to strike out

PAID: court Fee £75.00

5 Date

Claimant's Notice of Discontinuance

6 Date

Hearing of Defendant's application (vacated)

7 Work Done

Receiving and considering the Claim Form and Particulars of

Claim (3 hrs) £27.75

Searching for and locating the papers and other documents

relating to the 1993 proceedings (4 hrs) £37.00

Acknowledgment of Service (1 hrs) £9.25

Research regarding consumer credit law, law of limitation

law regarding re litigation (15 hrs) £138.75

Preparing Defence (4 hrs) £37.00

Preparing Application Notice (4 hrs) £37.00

Receiving and considering Notice of Discontinuance (1 hr) £9.25

Research regarding CPR 38.6 and CPR 44.12 (10 hrs) £92.50

Research regarding detailed assessment proceedings

and Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (10 hrs) £92.50

Preparing bill of costs and notice of commencement of

costs proceedings (6 hrs) £55.50

time spent in telephone calls, letters and emails

written and received (4 hrs) £37.00

Summary

Costs payable by the Claimant £573.50

Disbursements (court fee) £75.00

Total costs payable by the Defendant £648.50

Dated:

Signed:

 

 

 

Notice of commencement of

assessment of bill of costs

Signed Date

(Claimant)(Defendant)(’s solicitor)

To the claimant(defendant)

Following an (insert name of document eg. order, judgment) dated

(copy attached) I have prepared my Bill of Costs for assessment. The Bill totals *£ If you choose to

dispute this bill and your objections are not upheld at the assessment hearing, the full amount payable (including the

assessment fee) will be £ (together with interest (see note below)). I shall also seek the costs of the

assessment hearing

Your points of dispute must include

• details of the items in the bill of costs which are disputed

• concise details of the nature and grounds of the dispute for each item and, if you seek a reduction in

those items, suggest, where practicable, a reduced figure

You must serve your points of dispute by (insert date 21 days from the date of service

of this notice) on me at:- (give full name and address for service including any DX number or reference)

You must also serve copies of your points of dispute on all other parties to the assessment identified below (you do not

need to serve your points of dispute on the court).

If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate

for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £

I certify that I have also served the following person(s) with a copy of this notice and my Bill of Costs:- (give details of

persons served)

 

Take a break for this evening you have worked hard enough.Thanks Gez for your invaluable input with Tex.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

So is the SJ hearing done before our N244 strike out hearing

 

Tex

x:)x

 

No its on the same day.

 

Andy

[texanbar]

Sorry, I meant, will the DJ choose to proceed with the SJ hearing first before the Strike Out hearing?

x

[AndyOrch]

Strike out first as your application is the initial hearing date and logically if successful he wont even get to theirs...think about it.

[gezwee]

Sorry, I meant, will the DJ choose to proceed with the SJ hearing first before the Strike Out hearing?

x

 

Hi Tex

 

Yep, sorry but the natural course would be to dispose of the SJ first........ if it fails it moves on to the Strike out appy.

 

You can't strike out an undecided validity to claim hence the order of hearing.

 

WS's are vital to your case, costs are secondary [for the first 15 minutes at least] but will be come into their own and be equally as vital in leverage pre-hearing and post SJ decision

 

Gez

[gezwee]

Andy

 

Sorry, I may be wrong but my thinking is SJ first........ no defence has been filed in support of case.

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

Defence has been filed Gez ?

[texanbar]

Should we be resubmitting an amended defence Andy?

 

Tex

[gezwee]

Not so sure, defence was filed v pl not od [admittedly in error and partly due to the claimants conduct]........ I have a feeling the WS's would need to be heard in abeyance of a valid defence before the case can be progressed.

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

Due the complexity of this hearing (2 applications) I would say no at this stage.If strike out is successful no claim if not and SJ is allowed you wont need one.If SJ fails then you will be invited to submit a fully particularised defence anyway.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thats why its vital that your WS succeeds as a safeguard.The WC application is thrown in as a deterrent really.

You could be right Gez Im not sure which way the DJ will role this out.

[gezwee]

Tex

 

I won't be about tomorrow....... day surgery for my knee [again], depending on how groggy I feel I may not be able to look in again until Tuesday evening.

 

Start stringing a few paragraphs together when you can for the WS's, you've got a few days yet so plenty of time....... post them as attachments, not directly on your thread. The other side will probably be viewing this and won't be able to access the details unless they're logged in as forum members.

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Sorry ... I'm now worried,

 

Is it not prudent to submit an amended defence to prop up the Strike out application, because at the moment we don't have a right defence in. I agree the WS's will be extra ammunition against the SJ and understand the deterrent the WC's application may provide.

 

Tex

[texanbar]

Okay will do - good luck Gez and thanks so much

x:)x

 

 

Tex

 

I won't be about tomorrow....... day surgery for my knee [again], depending on how groggy I feel I may not be able to look in again until Tuesday evening.

 

Start stringing a few paragraphs together when you can for the WS's, you've got a few days yet so plenty of time....... post them as attachments, not directly on your thread. The other side will probably be viewing this and won't be able to access the details unless they're logged in as forum members.

 

Gez

[gezwee]

Sorry ... I'm now worried,

 

Is it not prudent to submit an amended defence to prop up the Strike out application, because at the moment we don't have a right defence in. I agree the WS's will be extra ammunition against the SJ and understand the deterrent the WC's application may provide.

 

Tex

 

Tex

 

No need to worry...... honestly, the position remains the same its just a matter of the order in which the dj deals with it that may be a bit arse about face.

 

You can't amend your defence as such until directed to, unless the claim is amended theres no protocol for amending defence. The WS are in essence now your defence to the case for SJ

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

I have already gone over that Tex the defence was entered under duress and advised by the court, subject to the outcome of the application.

Any amended defence would not " prop up " the application at this stage.The application will be considered on the grounds you have made it and what you submitted with said allocation.You can raise that point at the hearing in support of your objections to their application.

 

Andy

[texanbar]

OK, sorry.

 

Thanks everyone

Tex

 

 

I have already gone over that Tex the defence was entered under duress and advised by the court, subject to the outcome of the application.

Any amended defence would not " prop up " the application at this stage.The application will be considered on the grounds you have made it and what you submitted with said allocation.You can raise that point at the hearing in support of your objections to their application.

 

Andy

[gezwee]

Tex

 

Assume the statements of account recently issued are in the name of both Mr & Mrs Tex? Identical [barring interest encumbrance] breach and remedy sought within their WS and application

 

Catch up with you this evening

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Hi Gez,

 

Big apologies for not coming on last night - I shall be working on the WS this evening and will come back online tomorrow.

 

I've brought home some stuff from work which is taking up too much of my time at the minute and I'm battling tonsilitus

 

Hope your knee operation went well, big hugs

 

 

 

With kind regards

 

Tex

[gezwee]

Hi Tex

 

No worries, I'll be about every evening this week so shout when your ready.

 

Knee's good thanks, working from home for a day or 2 myself.......... I've rediscovered daytime tv all over again, lol

 

Gez

[texanbar]

Thanks Gez will do

 

x:)x

[texanbar]

Dear Gez/Andy,

 

Please find attached our first draft of Mr Tex's WS. Look forward to receiving your comments and feedback.

 

Mine to follow.

Kind regards

Tex

[texanbar]

Umm having trouble uploading... will try again shortly

x:)x