CL finance have no CCA but are taking court action.

[tracy1975]

Hi,

 

Have just received court papers from Northampton filed by Howard Cohen A Co. on behalf of CL Finance.

 

The debt in question is for my husbands old HSBC credit card. We entered in to a debt management plan with CCCS in 2004. This debt was included in the DMP and was subsequently sold on to CL finance who themselves then accepted payment through the DMP.

 

I sent a CCA request to CL finance on 29 July 08 and received a reply from them dated 9 September 08 stating:

 

HSBC has advised us that the signed agreement is not available due to the age of the account. This does not mean the agreement is illegal or void.Monies owing under the agreement are still due.

We look forward to your continued payment.

 

Upon receiving this I stopped making payments to them and sent them the following:

 

(The letter is addressed from me rather than my husband as I was advised by CCCS that it is best if full and final settlement offers are addressed from a relative or friend as this is more likely to be legally binding)

 

Without Prejudice

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re Customer number: *****************

 

I write concerning the balance outstanding on the above account.

 

 

I am unable to continue to make payments on this account because as you are aware the Consumer Credit Act request is in default.

 

However, I can raise £51.99 and I offer this amount in Full and Final Settlement of the account.

 

 

This offer is made on the understanding that if accepted, neither you nor any associated company will take any further action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released from any liability.

 

As you are aware while the Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

I also request that you mark any entry on any credit reference agency regarding this account as ‘satisfied in full’.

 

Payment can be made within 14 days of receiving your written agreement to this offer.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Tracy Woods.

Enc: List of offers to creditors.

 

 

They made no reply to either accept nor decline the full and final settlement offer and the next contact I had with them was a letter received from them dated 11 December demanding the concessionary payment stating:

 

Please treat this letter as formal notification that if you do not make the agreed payment, we will instruct our solicitors or a debt recovery agency to take further recovery action against you. This may include the issue of legal proceedings without further warning.

 

Thinking they were just trying to use scare tactics I put the letter to one side. We then received the court papers Issued on 30 Dec.

 

The Particulars of Claim are:

 

The Claimant's claim is for the sum of 717.19 being monies due from the Defedant of the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement (which they have been unable to provide a copy of) between the Defendant and HSBC Bank plc under reference **************** and assigned to the Claimant on the 28th September, 2007 notice of which has been given to the Defendant. (it was)

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served (Was the last letter received from them a default notice? there was nothing on it that stated it was a default notice, or would I have received this from HSBC prior to the account being sold on? I can't remember if I received one from them then or not and if I did then I don't have a copy) upon the Defendant pursuant to Sections 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Claimant claims the sum of 717.19.

 

My first instinct is to complete the acknowledgement of service on-line and then to defend the claim. Do I have a case?

 

What happens if the judge rules in favour of the Claimant? is a CCJ entered on the day or is the Defendant first given the option to pay the debt in full? and will court fees be added to the total?

 

Sorry this is so long but wanted to give full details hoping someone can please help.

 

Thanks,

Tracy.

[Josie8]

Hi,

 

Have just received court papers from Northampton filed by Howard Cohen A Co. on behalf of CL Finance.

 

The debt in question is for my husbands old HSBC credit card. We entered in to a debt management plan with CCCS in 2004. This debt was included in the DMP and was subsequently sold on to CL finance who themselves then accepted payment through the DMP.

 

I sent a CCA request to CL finance on 29 July 08 and received a reply from them dated 9 September 08 stating:

 

HSBC has advised us that the signed agreement is not available due to the age of the account. This does not mean the agreement is illegal or void.Monies owing under the agreement are still due.

We look forward to your continued payment.

 

Upon receiving this I stopped making payments to them and sent them the following:

 

(The letter is addressed from me rather than my husband as I was advised by CCCS that it is best if full and final settlement offers are addressed from a relative or friend as this is more likely to be legally binding)

 

Without Prejudice

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re Customer number: *****************

 

I write concerning the balance outstanding on the above account.

 

 

I am unable to continue to make payments on this account because as you are aware the Consumer Credit Act request is in default.

 

However, I can raise £51.99 and I offer this amount in Full and Final Settlement of the account.

 

 

This offer is made on the understanding that if accepted, neither you nor any associated company will take any further action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released from any liability.

 

As you are aware while the Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

I also request that you mark any entry on any credit reference agency regarding this account as ‘satisfied in full’.

 

Payment can be made within 14 days of receiving your written agreement to this offer.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Tracy Woods.

Enc: List of offers to creditors.

 

 

 

They made no reply to either accept nor decline the full and final settlement offer and the next contact I had with them was a letter received from them dated 11 December demanding the concessionary payment stating:

 

 

Please treat this letter as formal notification that if you do not make the agreed payment, we will instruct our solicitors or a debt recovery agency to take further recovery action against you. This may include the issue of legal proceedings without further warning.

 

 

Thinking they were just trying to use scare tactics I put the letter to one side. We then received the court papers Issued on 30 Dec.

 

 

The Particulars of Claim are:

 

 

The Claimant's claim is for the sum of 717.19 being monies due from the Defedant of the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement (which they have been unable to provide a copy of) between the Defendant and HSBC Bank plc under reference **************** and assigned to the Claimant on the 28th September, 2007 notice of which has been given to the Defendant. (it was)

 

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served (Was the last letter received from them a default notice? there was nothing on it that stated it was a default notice, or would I have received this from HSBC prior to the account being sold on? I can't remember if I received one from them then or not and if I did then I don't have a copy) upon the Defendant pursuant to Sections 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

The Claimant claims the sum of 717.19.

 

 

My first instinct is to complete the acknowledgement of service on-line and then to defend the claim. Do I have a case?

 

 

What happens if the judge rules in favour of the Claimant? is a CCJ entered on the day or is the Defendant first given the option to pay the debt in full? and will court fees be added to the total?

 

 

Sorry this is so long but wanted to give full details hoping someone can please help.

 

 

Thanks,

Tracy.

 

Defend the claim & go for summary judgment on basis that no CCA

[42man]

Hi Tracy if you do want to defend this, then you have 14 days from the daye on the claim form in which to acknowledge the claim, then you get a further 14+3 to submit a defence. Certainly if they have failed to provide an agreement and no default notice then you would be in a strong position, but be prepared for a possible battle..

 

Have a read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

 

If it was me in your position, I would send this to Cohens by recorded delivery ASAP

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment

 

3 the default notice

 

Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[tracy1975]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I will get the letter printed and sent off today.

 

I am just about to do the acknowladgement of service on-line. Do I need to just defend the claim or do I need to contest jusistiction also?

 

Hope you can help.

Thanks,

Tracy.

[42man]

Moving thread to Legal Issues forum

[42man]

Re contesting jurisdiction have a look here - I don't think you have to tick this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/160395-restons-court-action-2.html?highlight=jurisdiction

[42man]

It's too early to send in any sort of defence as you need to see if they will respond to your CPR....but state that you want to defend all the claim if that is your intention....you do get a further 14+3 days in which to submit....just have a really good read of these forums and keep a very sharp eye on timescales....

 

If you need any help please shout.

[tracy1975]

Thanks 42man.

 

I did acknowledgement of service yestersay and stated my intention to defend the claim in full. I didn't tick the contest jurisdiction box.

 

I also sent (by recorded delivery) the above letter to Cohens adding the following paragraphs which I found on the thread you linked to and seemed relevant to my case:

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request to your client for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. Your client failed to comply with that request.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

I have just checked and the letter was received by them today. I will wait seven days and see what response I get before deciding what to do next.

 

I have not as yet filled a defence I am waiting for the CPR. It says on the court papers if an acknowedgement of service has been sent then the defence must arrive at the court no later than 28 days from the date of service. It also says that the day of service is taken as 5 days after the issue date. So by my calculations, the issue date being 30th Dec, I will need to get the defence to the court no later than 1st Feb.

 

Thanks,

tracy.

[42man]

Sounds good...you've learnt a lot already T !!! keep a tight eye on the deadlines and keep us posted.

[oneofakind]

Subbing. Tracy, your story sounds very similar to mine with CL and Cohen's, and we are at the same stage. Watching with interest!

[tracy1975]

Well I haven't received anything back from them yet and their days is up tomorrow. If nothing arrives from them in the morning then do I submit the defence straight away or would I be better off waiting until as near to the deadline as I can?

[tracy1975]

Nothing arrived today still so do I file defence now or am I better off waiting?

[42man]

What is the deadline for submitting the defence Tracy ?

[bladeboy]

Way to go!!!

 

This has got DISCONTINUE written all over it.

 

They have, in all probability, issued the claim with the intention of scare tactics and also in the hope that you won't defend and they get judgement by default.

 

As soon as you show that you have a backbone and know a bit about the law, more soecifically some of the CPR and Consumer Credit Act then they will cave in.

[tracy1975]

Defence deadline is 1st Feb.

[42man]

OK....a little early just yet Tracy....give me a nudge if it gets closer to the time and they still haven't complied with the CPR....

[tracy1975]

Thanks,

I will sit tight for now and see if I get anythink back from them.

[tracy1975]

I still haven't heard anything back from Cohens.

 

I really need to get the defence sent off by the end of the week, at the latest, to make sure gets there on time.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

[42man]

Hi Tracy.....have a look at these

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/161469-1st-credit-animal-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/167353-help-court-claim-howard-2.html

[bazaar]

Sub

Good Luck, this looks like it could be fun for you:D

[tracy1975]

O.K, I've pinched this from oneofkinds thread.

 

It seems relevant to my case and it doesn't contain any jargon that I don't understand and would have trouble have trouble explaining in court (should it come to that).

 

 

• I, ****** of *******, make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by CL Finance Ltd.

 

• The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action. They appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system.

 

• No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the Claimant for further information made under CPR 31.14, none has been forth coming and as a result I cannot plead in defence to the claim.

 

• Without clarification of the Claimant’s claim, the Defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the Claimant’s claim appears without merit. The Defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the Claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon.

 

• Further to that above 4 paragraphs, the Defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The Defendant is embarrassed.

 

What do you think?

[lisaf]

subbing

[tracy1975]

I've decided to go with the above.

 

Deadline in 1st Feb, which is Sunday, and I will be submitting defence online, so should I do it now or wait until the end of the week?

[oneofakind]

Hi Tracy,

 

File whenever you're ready; just make sure you've read it through, and corrected everything, because you only get one chance to get it right!

 

D.

[shammy36]

subbing , i have the same deadline date as you , and your defence looks good enough to throw a nice little spanner in c l s works

 

Regards Sham