How credit cards & bank loans REALLY work - Learn, & this will change your whole life!!

[fergal71]

unfortunately many issues like this just get talked about there is no action how can MP's expenses scandal is no more... yet when I see daily that mrs bloggs put in jail for cheating benefit system... she was not offered to pay it back...... this country is run by cheats supporting bigger cheats.... yet we as a population can do nothing about it... to say a general election will sort it is misguided.... they are all the same they are wolves in different clothing.... when are we all going to realise and unite to put an end to this

ridiculous situation

[rickyd]

are you familiar with the expression "divide and rule"?

[ajax95]

This attitude of 'why should we' is the kind of attitude that creates this irresponsibilty in the first place from both sides of the spectrum

 

I'd agree wholeheartedly, it's an easy attitude to have if that situation is something that doesn't affect you. But it just takes one little break in the chain...

[rickyd]

ajax95 - whoa! hold one there dude.

 

I too have been on the wrong end of chronic interest and bank charges, that's why i came here on the first place.

 

The bigger point I was making was to say that whilst I wholeheartedly agree that nobody should be made to suffer at the hands of the banks and other credit providers, I cannot bring myself to accept that we should repay other's debts.

 

Should we have bailed out the banks - absolutely Yes, we couldn't not have it would have been disastrous for the whole country, every political party is agreed on this point. In fact Vince Cable wrote a wonderful piece in the Guardian about why is was essential. But, like all the opposition parties said, the constricts placed on the funding were woeful and left the bankers with the power e.g. bonuses etc.

 

Should we repay everyone''s debts - absolutely not. Cancel excess interest? yes. Cancel charges? yes, but original borrowing - no. I can't see how that's promoting responsible borrowing?

[andrew1]

ajax95 - whoa! hold one there dude.

 

I too have been on the wrong end of chronic interest and bank charges, that's why i came here on the first place.

 

The bigger point I was making was to say that whilst I wholeheartedly agree that nobody should be made to suffer at the hands of the banks and other credit providers, I cannot bring myself to accept that we should repay other's debts.

 

Should we have bailed out the banks - absolutely Yes, we couldn't not have it would have been disastrous for the whole country, every political party is agreed on this point. In fact Vince Cable wrote a wonderful piece in the Guardian about why is was essential. But, like all the opposition parties said, the constricts placed on the funding were woeful and left the bankers with the power e.g. bonuses etc.

 

Should we repay everyone''s debts - absolutely not. Cancel excess interest? yes. Cancel charges? yes, but original borrowing - no. I can't see how that's promoting responsible borrowing?

 

 

I think you miss my point....If you go to marriage guidance or any kind of counselling, war negotiations, legal battle, whatever, the aim of the exercise is to get a clean slate so that one moves on with the best possible result and that means reconciliation and more importantly wiping the slate clean of bitterness and drawing a line in the sand - not easy I know, but sometimes the only medicine to move things forward - forget the past, whatever the cost and move on -.

 

Now take Debt. Debt is the scourge of Society, we spend most of our lives worrying about it, our kids are brought up on credit, without being educated to live without it - I remember my mother getting loans from the 'provident Lady' as a kid - god only knows how that must have hit her pocket way back then...but as another poster said somewhere else here " we managed on a different financial system very successfully for over 700 yrs without debt" - so why is it here now? How can we get rid of it? Well it takes a brave person to take the bait when it presents itself to do so and believe me despite the numerous people who would be moaning about paying others debts off - in the end, had that been done and the bankers getting their money and surviving the crash, our society would be the best in the world for taking such a brave and industrious step. The Power bases in this world depend on our debt, but imagine life without this scourge - sure there would be one hell of a shift in the life as we know it, but just like we went metric or changing from Right Hand drive to left in countries - we'd soon adapt and I for one would be very happy seeing these leeches from the financial sectors from top to bottom being put out of business - DCA's might run respectible businesses, but they only survive because of debt, No debt - no dca's, no money lending sharks, no mental health problems due to debt, no suicides due to debt, people buying what they can afford only...I know which way I'd have preferred Brown and Darling went however the rich might have baulked, many of them probably making their fortunes out of the system anyway...

 

Someone told me years ago that killing the manufacturing and creative markets and leaving it to Financial services was a disaster in the making and it wasn't Nostradamus I can assure you or Gypsy Rose Lee...

[ajax95]

I think you miss my point....If you go to marriage guidance or any kind of counselling, war negotiations, legal battle, whatever, the aim of the exercise is to get a clean slate so that one moves on with the best possible result and that means reconciliation and more importantly wiping the slate clean of bitterness and drawing a line in the sand - not easy I know, but sometimes the only medicine to move things forward - forget the past, whatever the cost and move on -.

 

Now take Debt. Debt is the scourge of Society, we spend most of our lives worrying about it, our kids are brought up on credit, without being educated to live without it - I remember my mother getting loans from the 'provident Lady' as a kid - god only knows how that must have hit her pocket way back then...but as another poster said somewhere else here " we managed on a different financial system very successfully for over 700 yrs without debt" - so why is it here now? How can we get rid of it? Well it takes a brave person to take the bait when it presents itself to do so and believe me despite the numerous people who would be moaning about paying others debts off - in the end, had that been done and the bankers getting their money and surviving the crash, our society would be the best in the world for taking such a brave and industrious step. The Power bases in this world depend on our debt, but imagine life without this scourge - sure there would be one hell of a shift in the life as we know it, but just like we went metric or changing from Right Hand drive to left in countries - we'd soon adapt and I for one would be very happy seeing these leeches from the financial sectors from top to bottom being put out of business - DCA's might run respectible businesses, but they only survive because of debt, No debt - no dca's, no money lending sharks, no mental health problems due to debt, no suicides due to debt, people buying what they can afford only...I know which way I'd have preferred Brown and Darling went however the rich might have baulked, many of them probably making their fortunes out of the system anyway...

 

Someone told me years ago that killing the manufacturing and creative markets and leaving it to Financial services was a disaster in the making and it wasn't Nostradamus I can assure you or Gypsy Rose Lee...

 

That is more or less my view.

 

For the past decade people have been bombarded with shows on TV, articles in papers, peer pressure etc urging us to take on a mountain of debt to improve the value of our houses by a few grand, or acquiring a more affluent lifestyle just for the sake of it, just because you’re given the impression that “everyone else is doing it why aren’t you?”

 

Of course you need to accept some responsibility for your own actions and mistakes. But when you’re able to keep up the repayments, it’s easy enough to convince yourself that it’s not a problem, (and easy to ignore that little voice in the back of your head saying you should never have done it)

 

I've said it already, but it only needs for one tiny little thing to go wrong, and in my case it was when I lost my job 2 years ago. Once I got back into work two months later, the damage had already been done.

 

On the bright side, personally, I’m finally in a situation where I’ve got a better grasp on what I spend and I know now that it’s not compulsory to keep up with everybody else.

 

 

Ironically, I think the last time I had any sense with money was when I was in my late teens/early twenties and trying to see how far I could stretch a giro until the next one dropped through the letterbox or I got myself a job

 

(I find it hard not to kick myself for unlearning it all a few years down the line, I could have saved myself a lot of grief over the past decade )

 

I think it’s already been said on this thread and elsewhere, but when it’s made too easy to get credit, you’re just storing up trouble for some point in the future. This situation has happened before, and nothing it seems has been learned, maybe some of us consumers might get a bit smarter, but I don’t see much evidence that any lessons are going to be learned elsewhere. Andrew's suggestion might seem unfair to those people who don't have a debt problem, but perhaps it's time for a serious culture change...

Edited September 8, 2009 by ajax95
an extra point

[andrew1]

Education, education, education!!! teach our children from a very early age that credit is like the plague. Get it out of their blood - ban it even until they're 30 or something daft like that just so there's a fire break for a few years in attitude towards living in debt, then and only then will things change. They stopped smoking in pubs thank god, now we can all go for a pint and people said the big baccy companies wouldn't let it happen - well? it did.

 

Of course you can't build cross rails and Channel tunnels or a million other things in business on such a scale without borrowing otherwise nothing would get done, but personal debt is in crisis especially in the UK and it's time it was stopped, the banks and finance companies are coming under pressure, but by how much? It's only when the likes of Paul Walton and Sparkie make a video and plaster it all over Europe that someone tends to take notice, that's why they get away with it - it needs a revolution ...

[underdog13]

it needs a revolution ...

 

I volunteer to operate the guillotine:)

[ajax95]

Teach our children from a very early age that credit is like the plague. Get it out of their blood - ban it even until they're 30 or something daft like that just so there's a fire break for a few years in attitude towards living in debt, then and only then will things change.

 

I think that's going to be the only way to get the message across...

 

Education, education, education!!!

 

Where have I heard that before?

[rickyd]

here's something worth thinking about. Looking at RBS share price today, the taxpayer's money is now making a real return on the original investment of 50.5 per share. As they are now sitting at 56.35p per share, we're now ahead of the game. Although still some way off the chancellors target for selling, at least we're above what we all we paid in the first place.

 

I've no idea how many shares "we" all own, but 4p adds up to a pretty sum when multiplied by the likely volume involved. I wouldn't be in the least suprised ti see the price rise even further following the announcement about charges either. The rest of the banks will have to follow suit eventually, but the first one always takes the limelight.

[ajax95]

So when will the Inland Revenue be delivering my "divvy"?

[rickyd]

ah ha! you've spotted the only flaw in this logic. Still it'll give the MPs more pocket money so they don't "need to be living off rations" for much longer, the poor dears....

 

I can't recall eactly but I think the sell target was 75p/share (anyone know for certain?) which is roughly the sahre price required for Mr Hester to get his bonus.

 

Still a long way short of the £3.49 I paid for mine when I sold my Halifax shares. Serves me right for thinking I'd been smart seeing their troubles coming ;-)

[mani99]

Excellent thread, certainly opened my eyes to a few things... also very entertaining at times seeing Nuke and Co. go at it.

[nuke em]

unfortunately many issues like this just get talked about there is no action how can MP's expenses scandal is no more... yet when I see daily that mrs bloggs put in jail for cheating benefit system... she was not offered to pay it back...... this country is run by cheats supporting bigger cheats.... yet we as a population can do nothing about it... to say a general election will sort it is misguided.... they are all the same they are wolves in different clothing.... when are we all going to realise and unite to put an end to this

ridiculous situation

 

I think the MP's expense scandal was the long game, set up to be exposed recently so we will all hate our "money grabbing MP's" and when the time comes for full EU Rule (dictatorship) we wont mind if the EU points out that we dont need our MP's anymore to make our rules & statutes !

 

my view, keep our MPs and treble their wages , keep our parliament then at least if we dont like them , we can vote them out......

[nuke em]

Excellent thread, certainly opened my eyes to a few things... also very entertaining at times seeing Nuke and Co. go at it.

 

just trying to EXPOSE the matrix

Edited September 27, 2009 by nuke em

[nuke em]

LANDMARK DECISION PROMISES MASSIVE RELIEF FOR HOMEOWNERS AND TROUBLE FOR BANKS

 

Remember earlier i told you about Ellen Hodgson Brown

well she is reporting a landmark case for reposessions/foreclosures in the USA

 

 

Web of Debt - LANDMARK DECISION PROMISES MASSIVE RELIEF FOR HOMEOWNERS AND TROUBLE FOR BANKS

 

the thing is that at least 2 big British banks are upto their neck with MERS as well , all to do with Slicing up mortgage for MBS ( Mortgage Backed Securities)

 

The funny money is starting to burn!

 

...

“When its a question of money, everybody is of the same religion.”

 

Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero

 

- VOLTAIRE

[charlie*]

But will it help the uk?

Edited September 28, 2009 by charlie*
wrong

[nuke em]

But will it help the uk?

Good Point ,yes i think so... within the next 6-12 months timeframe, in the same way as the USA sub-prime mess affected us here , so this will as well ( only this time in a good way though)

[rickyd]

I don't think so in the UK. Whilst its certainly true that mortgage backed securities would be subject to much closed scrutiny (and rightly so) primary security takers and holders of mortgaged properties will still be directly able to foreclose (God I hate Americanisms creeping into our language) reposess properties in default cases.

 

Its now the case that the government has issued strong instructions about delaying proceedings to enable stricken borrowers more leeway, backed up by court powers, but the line of responsibility still exists.

 

Unlike the USA, when a company sells its borrowing book on to another finance company, the security goes with it, on a first party basis, so that a mortgage loan based on a security in favour of say RBS, which is sold to Abbey, becomes a security in favour of Abbey. Its rarely the case that a third party has access to the debt, as in the case of MERS.

 

The big problems started when our fine institutions became involved in things they didn't really understand, or had any experience of - eg Northern Rock, and the fact that a security held in one jurisdiction is legally unenforceable in another, especially in another country. This is why the big banks have foreign subsidiaries for their overseas mortgage business.

 

I am certain there are still more revelations to come about securitised lending, but I for one won't be holding my breath about UK written and secured mortgage lending being being unenforceable. And whilst the banks have to be more understanding about hardship cases, repossessions will continue.

[nuke em]

I don't think so in the UK. Whilst its certainly true that mortgage backed securities would be subject to much closed scrutiny (and rightly so) primary security takers and holders of mortgaged properties will still be directly able to foreclose (God I hate Americanisms creeping into our language) reposess properties in default cases. Of course when it get's to be generally known amongst the sheeple that the Mortgage was a fraud in the first instance ie they provided you with nothing of value , just monitized a document you signed..... that should stop the repos.....

 

Its now the case that the government has issued strong instructions (i bet the banks are quaking in their boots!) about delaying proceedings to enable stricken borrowers more leeway, backed up by court powers, but the line of responsibility still exists.

 

Unlike the USA, when a company sells its borrowing book on to another finance company, the security goes with it, on a first party basis, so that a mortgage loan based on a security in favour of say RBS, which is sold to Abbey, becomes a security in favour of Abbey. Its rarely the case that a third party has access to the debt, as in the case of MERS.

 

The big problems started when our fine institutions became involved in things they didn't really understand, & still dont , like derivatives for example or had any experience of - eg Northern Rock, and the fact that a security held in one jurisdiction is legally unenforceable in another, especially in another country. This is why the big banks have foreign subsidiaries for their overseas mortgage business.

 

I am certain there are still more revelations to come about securitised lending, There are, loads watch this space! but I for one won't be holding my breath about UK written and secured mortgage lending being being unenforceable. And whilst the banks have to be more understanding about hardship cases, repossessions will continue.

Bank : Understanding ? = oxymoron Surely!

[rickyd]

good point!

 

It's a euphemism that I think means "lay off the poor bastards for six months at least" kind of understanding.

 

I don't know how many are following the "guidance" of the Bank of England/FSA but the rules certainly exist.

[nuke em]

good point!

 

It's a euphemism that I think means "lay off the poor b*****ds for six months at least" kind of understanding. or untill the publicity dies down which ever is the sooner

 

I don't know how many are following the "guidance" of the Bank of England/FSA but the rules certainly exist.

 

They "exist" in plain view and are out there for the sheeple , but the lenders & banks know that in reality they dont "apply" to them!

[mattyarmouth]

Great thread, Im with nuke. I have spent many hours researching how money is made and nuke is spot on!

 

Money is created by our signature, and the gov admits it! someone done a freedome of info request & asked how money is made. I will try find the link.

[nuke em]

Great thread, Im with nuke. I have spent many hours researching how money is made and nuke is spot on!

 

Money is created by our signature, and the gov admits it! someone done a freedome of info request & asked how money is made. I will try find the link.

 

 

Good, the more people that "get it" the better we all are !!!!!!!

 

97% of ALL money is borrowed into existance !

 

ie it never existed before a human's Autograph!

[rickyd]

I love the idea of this but its now getting way too philosophical for me.

 

I think the word "money" is being confused here with "wealth" which most will readily agree are two entirely different things.

Even supposing all of this is actually true - so what? Where is this going?

 

The fabric and structure of the country is based on a culture of borrowing, going back to the Marshall plan. All that has happened is that some have become increasingly inventive with the vehicles created to create wealth. As with all of these type of things, greed ultimately corrupts their logic and disaster of some form or other normally follows.

 

Sadly we never seem to learn from this as greed is a universal sin and most people succumb in one way or another, sooner or later.

 

I would start by pointing the finger at "interest free" sales deals where for example, customers buy a car for a small deposit and thereafter become further out of pocket every month as they own an ever increasing share of a depreciating asset. From day one the car owes them money and they can never realise their debt from sales proceeds as they are in "negative equity" from the outset.

 

It ultimately leads the unwary into somehow believing they own something of value but in reality they hold a liability stretching into the future.

 

This is really intellectual fluff however, the real problems came into existence from the government of our great grandfathers' day requiring the banks of the day to hold only ridiculously low levels of Tier One Capital, which was promoted primarily as a desperate attempt to stimulate the economy at all costs.

 

Successive Governments did nothing to change this until the present mob were backed into a corner and even then they struggled to understand the problem. When they realised the size of the hole that existed they demanded that the main banks increase their ratios at a time when it was nigh impossible to do so. The rest is history....