Complaints about the FOS

[NitrousOxide]

Pinky,

They are certainly not innefective.

Elaborate or point to why you think they are. I suspect this is to do with a CCA request?

If so I can see why it would not get upheld. CCA is for the courts to decide.

[Kraken1]

I must admit I have to admire the banking industry on this. They do not like the FOS but have somehow managed to instill a dislike of it within many consumers.

 

This way everyone is campaigning against it. Almost like giving a manically and suicidally depressed person a job in a pharmacy, and then telling him his dog has died.

 

Or you could go for the the usual suspects thing (or Charles Baudelaire if you are that way inclined) - "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist"

[Suetonius]

Pinky,

They are certainly not innefective.

Elaborate or point to why you think they are. I suspect this is to do with a CCA request?

If so I can see why it would not get upheld. CCA is for the courts to decide.

 

In her defence I don't think that she has asked the FOS to determine the enforceability of a credit agreement. As I understand it (apologies if I am wrong) she has told the FOS that the agreement/application form is unenforceable. Her complaint appears to be more in realtion to the actions of the creditor seeking repayment of an unenforceable agreement.

 

Which to me is exactly the samething, just a different way of asking the same question. As a result you get the same answer.

 

If an agreement is unenforceable, the debt still exists. All it means is that the creditor is unable to obtain a Court Order

Edited March 9, 2009 by Suetonius

[angry cat]

The British Public in general have lost all faith in the present government;

The British Public do not trust the Banks.

 

The FSA and so-called regulators have been asleep on the job.

 

Therefore, it should not come as any surprise that some consumers have little or, no faith in the FOS!

 

The Ombudsman service is a free and informal alterternative to going to court.

So you shouldn't need special expertise or help of a solicitor or other advisor.

We decide if your complaint is valid by looking at the individual facts--

NOT AT THE WAY YOU PRESENT YOUR COMPLAINT. End Quote

 

The above statement is totally misleading;

the manner in which one presents a complaint is vital!

 

I believe there are firms who will draft an FOS complaint, in order that everything is presented correctly leaving no element for any misundertanding

by the case worker etc

 

AC

[Suetonius]

The British Public in general have lost all faith in the present government;

The British Public do not trust the Banks.

 

The FSA and so-called regulators have been asleep on the job.

 

Therefore, it should not come as any surprise that some consumers have little or, no faith in the FOS!

 

The Ombudsman service is a free and informal alterternative to going to court.

So you shouldn't need special expertise or help of a solicitor or other advisor.

We decide if your complaint is valid by looking at the individual facts--

NOT AT THE WAY YOU PRESENT YOUR COMPLAINT. End Quote

 

The above statement is totally misleading;

the manner in which one presents a complaint is vital!

 

I believe there are firms who will draft an FOS complaint, in order that everything is presented correctly leaving no element for any misundertanding

by the case worker etc

 

AC

 

Personally, I would not pay any firm or business to make a complaint on my behalf. RMW has taken the time to create an excellent thread on that very subject. Furthermore, if you get stuck you can always ask questions on CAG.

[Suetonius]

P.S Angry Cat, the FOS is not a so-called regulator. It is not a regulator of any kind

[angry cat]

Suetonius, you missed the point and I am fully aware that the FOS is not a Regulator.

 

Furthermore, I was not suggesting that anyone should go to a firm in order that their complaint could be drafted clearly and correctly. I am simply highlighting this:

 

"We decide if your complaint is valid by looking at the individual facts--

NOT AT THE WAY YOU PRESENT YOUR COMPLAINT".

 

To reiterate, the manner in which a complaint to the FOS is presented, is paramount.

 

AC

[Suetonius]

If you would care to read my post again you will note that I did not say that you suggested that people contact complaint companies. The point I wanted to make was that people do not need to contact these companies.

[angry cat]

The point that I was making is that, when a consumer makes a complaint to the FOS, the manner in which the complaint is presented, is paramount!

 

The wording as written on the FOS leaflet is misleading.

 

AC

[Suetonius]

Surely common sense would dictate that it is advisable to fully detail your complaint. After all as the FOS is impartial it can't build or develop your complaint further..

 

I think what the FOS are asking for is a clear concise explanation of what your complaint is about. If they do not understand the basis of your actual complaint, how can you expect a full response ?

[Suetonius]

think of it from their point of view. If you was going to investigate a complaint, wouldn't you want to know, who, what, where and when.. I don't think that is really to much to ask..

[angry cat]

No of course that is not to much to ask.

 

However, most general consumers are not blessed with law degrees, many are not good with words, many are not familiar with the various statutes etc...some do not even have computers!

 

The FOS leaflet appears to indicate that a complaint does not have to be presented with any financial or legal expertise, when this is clearly not the case.

No wonder consumers complaints are bungled, case workers make errors which are passed on to biased adjudicators with a narrow view.

 

AC

[Kraken1]

Ok. Advice from an adjudicator.

 

If you are submitting a claim:

 

Make it clear.

Use plain english

Do not go all legal unless you are certain you are right, and even then, don't bother. Rather than 's123 of the tin foil regulations 1632 states that...' or 'In the case of R v Tin foil ltd the HOL ruled' say that 'I believe that...[state law].' A good adjudicator will know what you are talking about. A bad one won't and you won't get anywhere anyway; you'll just alienate him.

Use evidence to support argument - They did x, and as a result I lost £1.4m. Here is the invoice for dry-cleaning.

Keep it short. 12 page letters are a no-no.

Use bullet points

Use paragraphs

Use punctuation

Use page numbers

Use grammar correctly. Don't use too much or too little.

For gods sake NEVER hand write it.

Never use lined paper.

Never let emotion intrude on the facts.

Don't just write 'please see attached'. Fill in the forms. Summarise your complaint.

Ask for what you want and justify it. Be reasonable and realistic. The more cheeky you are the less seriously the rest of your complaint is considered.

Focus on the personal impact - they cannot change the world, only consider your claim. Don't start saying things like 'you need to stop this happening to other people'. Keep it personal and individual.

 

To be honest, some of the cag letters, whilst perhaps ok for DCAs are not good if you are seeking help from an adjudicator.

 

There are perhaps many others, but they are the ones that spring to mind.

 

The most important though - be nice to your adjudicator. Don't harass. Bond with him, get him on your side. Bully, cajole or insult and he will be less inclined to help you. If that is the way you are treating the independent adjudicator how must you have treated the other guy? It means that when the other chaps says that you are an unreasonable nutter you have provided the evidence to support it...

[Suetonius]

I think what the FOS is really asking for is content rather than quality. If you supply the filling, they can then make a sandwich. If you don't, they can't.. But then don't complain when all you get back is a slice of bread

[NitrousOxide]

All you need really is common sense.

[angry cat]

What a ridiculous analogy!

[Pinky69]

They don't even have crumbs, never mind bread and a sandwich is completely beyond them. As for being nice to the ajudicator, complaints are not emotionally based and who gives a stuff about the ajudicator. He/she is there to address your complaint, not to have his/her ego massaged. Still, if you pay peanuts I suppose all you can expect are monkeys - untrained ones at that.

[Suetonius]

excellent post Karken. I hope people click your scales to say thank you. Can any small minded people please not ATTACK Karken for the content of his / her post and actually give it the consideration it deserves

[angry cat]

All you need really is common sense.

 

Yes, a modicum of common sense will be beneficial. However, some complaints are extremely complex and if the salient points are not mapped out sufficiently through lack of knowledge, it is likely that a case worker will make assumptions based on paperwork supplied by the firm involved;

paperwork that can be incorrect.

 

AC

[Suetonius]

What a ridiculous analogy!

 

I know I can always bank on you for your constructive posts AC

[Suetonius]

They don't even have crumbs, never mind bread and a sandwich is completely beyond them. As for being nice to the ajudicator, complaints are not emotionally based and who gives a stuff about the ajudicator. He/she is there to address your complaint, not to have his/her ego massaged. Still, if you pay peanuts I suppose all you can expect are monkeys - untrained ones at that.

 

What do you personally think the FOS is there for ?

[Pinky69]

I gave Kraken's post the recognition it deserves - it took all of a nanosecond. As for pressing his scales, that's for people who have genuinely helped somebody, which neither the FOS nor their groupies know the first thing about.

[NitrousOxide]

Again,

a few people are slating them yet not giving concrete examples of why.

At least say why and back it up with facts.

[Pinky69]

You have asked me that question twice but I don't bite for trolls.

[yourbank]

I gave Kraken's post the recognition it deserves - it took all of a nanosecond. As for pressing his scales, that's for people who have genuinely helped somebody, which neither the FOS nor their groupies know the first thing about.

 

I did give him reputation because I think the points he made are valid re taking a case to the FOS.

 

Is there anyway that any of those who have taken their case to the FOS would be willing to post up their complaint on the forum or link to their thread because then you can see a live case and how it may have been viewed and/or adjudicated(if it was not upheld)?