First time poster : disciplinary advice sought

[kernowayr]

Have been employed for 9 years with same employer and have briefest of contracts which, despite being for a temporary term of first 3 months of employment only (no confirmatory letter of permanent employment of further contract type document exists between us to this day) states basic terms and that no formal disciplinary/grievance procedures exist (at the time contract was made I was only employee of firm other than boss).

 

First 4 years or so of my employment there were fine, with regular bonuses, pay rises, increased responsibility etc. However, I can't help but notice that every time we were doing well/getting busier and new staff taken on a little bit of my job went to them and I was left with the rest without much input/discussion or say as to what was removed and what stayed.

 

By then I had day to day responsibility for my own portfolio of files and as I was quite enthusiastic about this (something of a novelty to me) and the pay rises kept coming I turned a blind eye to the rest more or less and just got on with that.

 

Just under a year ago we lost a big client (which itself went into administratiion) and around about the same time we lost quite a lot of our remaining staff then employed, maybe 8 or 10 in total? Most went on to do other jobs and I do not know if any of them were formally made redundant by my employer (unlikely if firm was facing a drop in income due to fate of the client).

 

We lost, in particular, to another firm one particular employee who was doing the work I was initially taken on to do (me having, by then left it behind totally to concentrate on the other stuff). This meant that there was no-one left to take over except me so I, basically, got lumbered, again without any input/choice to the discussion but as I was still being paid reasonably well for the job I was doing and it had gone a bit quiet freeing up some time, I persevered only slightly under protest and some 6 months later am still doing both jobs without any prospect of any change of arrangement or raise for my efforts.

 

Most of my previous reviews have come about voluntarily on the part of my employer (I have only had to ask for more money once) but, now things are not so good, money is scarce and my last raise was over a year ago now with no prospect for the future.

 

To cap it all, the administrators looking after our lost major client's affairs closed down the building we had previously shared with our client back in September forcing us to relocate to new offices in the same general area of town.

 

At the new office I am housed in a cellular office with the boss of the firm whilst my colleagues (all 5 of them) are housed not even on the same floor as us but still within the same building. We share our floor with another big client and this extends to I.T., copiers, kitchen, loos etc. These people we share office space with number approx. 30 bodies and our work is inter-linked - my boss provides a professional supervisory role on the more technical aspects - I have no professional involvement with what they do myself.

 

I have noticed however that the team of 30 are quite insular (clique?) and rarely invite me (or my boss) to join in on birthday celebrations or whatever. The superior employer of this group of 30 people had a staff party just before Christmas to which myself, my boss and the other 5 bods of my firm were invited (3 of us accepted the invitation). On the night of the party I was excluded from the pre-party arrangements being made at a personal level between those of the team of 30 bodies who were attending, including taxi transfer from the office to the restaurant (they did not invite me and I didn't like to force myself upon them). This upset me and a week later I was still upset about it but keeping calm, pleasant towards them etc.

 

By this time I discovered that my own group of 5 "work colleagues" had arranged some festivities of their own which I, once more, found myself excluded for, I presumed deliberately particularly as they were not particularly discrete about what had gone on and offered no apology. Even when questioned as to why they tried to palm this off as an oversight - I don't believe that as I am in regular contact with them about work and socially when they come down to our floor to use the kitchen, copiers, fax machine etc. (they do not have their own despite being located 4 floors away from us).

 

I have to admit that I let this get to me and, when my boss found out about it she more or less sided with them, told me I was being paranoid, reminded me I wasn't part of their work group anyway (not strictly speaking I'm not but we are a small firm and share the same boss). Worst of all she told me I had no right to get upset about it. This just inflamed me further and as I was unable to express myself verbally in a coherent fashion by then I did not say any more (you could tell they weren't prepared to listen to me or admit they were wrong anyway).

 

Needless to say this led to me wondering what sort of future I had with this company if they could not even be civil/inclusive towards me at Christmas (we all know the boss is tight so don't expect anything from her pocket at Christmas by now).

 

Anyway, it came time for me to leave for my Christmas break but the fighter in me wanted revenge (or at least a forum to put my point of view across where I wouldn't break down in tears before completing what I had to say as before when I had tried) so I decided to use e-mail. So, about 4 hours after official "close of play" in the office (i.e. in my own time) I sent an e-mail setting out my position to the group of 30 telling them what I had thought not only of how they had treated me, an invited guest, at their office party but what my so-called own "workmates" had done as well. Just call it therapy!

 

I was not overly rude about any individuals (although I did name a few by name, dismissing their attempt at an apology as an "oversight" on their part) but did not swear, name call or anything of the like. I likewise, did not comment in any shape or form as to my feelings on the abilities of any one of my 5 work colleagues professionally or make any threats of violence or such like.

 

So what happened next. Seems like one (or more) of the 30, probably their line manager speaking in a collective voice on behalf of all of them, took exception to my e-mail and sent it on to my boss who has now called me to a disciplinary hearing over it alleging misuse of company e-mail facilities for personal and, in their opinion, inappropriate use given the circumstances stating that I have (not may but have) damaged the reputation of the firm by sending it.

 

Whilst I would probably conced that the use of company e-mail for this purpose was inappropriate I would draw the line at the "damaged the reputation of the firm" accusation (how have I done that exactly? Most of the 30 recipients will have deleted it without reading all the way through - it was quite length (just like this post is now) - and won't have given it another thought. I would therefore suggest that what I am guilty of is serious misconduct at worst not gross misconduct resulting in me being summarily dismissed without pay or notice.

 

One final point the letter inviting me to attend the disciplinary hearing encloses a "Discipinary Procedure" I have not only never seen before but never even knew existed (do you not think that is strange for someone who has worked so close to the boss for so long?) Goodness knows when it was produced (probably last weekend just for the purposes of this hearing - nothing similar has taken place with other current or previous employees to the best of my knowledge).

 

Just wondering if, with the background knowledge supplied above, what the forum membership's view was on all, any of this and what they reckon my chances of keeping my job are? I fully expect the punishment to be a final written warning and maybe a pecuniary financial penalty but how much would be reasonable for this type of "first time" offence do you reckon? If I get summarily dismissed I will appeal, if I get my pay reduced permanently I will similarly appeal and possibly take advice formally either way as to my chances of winning either an unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal claim against my employer. In my favour she's been fairly pleasant and chatty to me since she gave me the letter about the hearing, although conversely she has not as yet given me any new work to do (maybe she has already decided I'm going soon and may not be around to complete it before I leave?). Wish me luck.

[kernowayr]

Have just posted on the Employment Forum over a disciplinary hearing I am due to be the subject of at work. Would really appreciate some views on what I should say,do and how you good folks think it might go for me (from experience of these sort of issues elsewhere perhaps)?

 

Thanks in advance for your help with this problem. Look forward to reading the replies soonest if possible.

 

Cheers!

[kernowayr]

C'mon somebody say something (anything?) I see there are at least 2 people viewing this thread other than myself at the moment. Please?

[actionblusox]

My advice to you would be for you to not take things too seriously and to heart in future! you have obviously taken the situations and blown them out of all proportion.

to be honest if I was you I would be prepared when you go to the meeting and accept that what you did was wrong or over the top.

 

you have let everything in your employment over the years build up to this one letter and i dread to think want you had put in it,,, and that if it was a lengthy letter such as this one then you was way out of order to be honest.

 

just because you have been left out on a couple of occasions doesnt warrant you to react the way you have, and the people in the building must have been quite shocked to your reactive letter.

 

even your boss was saying to you that you was being paranoid! which says it all..

my advice is to take a lot of deep breaths and if you want to write anything down again in the future then do so!!!!! But DONT deliver it...

keep it to yourself for 3 days then read it a couple of times from someone elses point of view and then ask yourself honestly if you think it maybe a little over the top?.

 

its enough sometimes to just write things down, read and then throw the letter away because you get it off your chest.

 

try and go through what i have been going through and what many others are???

if you was then im sure you would put things into perspective.

never mind where this disciplinary letter came from, because what that means is, if you have never seen it before then it is because it is for you personally.

go into the meeting admit your over reaction and apologise and accept what is given to you which will probably be a final warning, it may help you to say you made the mistake because you had had a pre xmas drink and was a little merry and it wont happen again.

DONT be defensive in this meeting and DONT blame anyone, keep it short by saying you apologise.

 

good luck.

[kernowayr]

Thank you.

[actionblusox]

no worries.

 

If you feel this anxious again in the future, it may help you if you post what you want to say on this forum and wait to see if your letter is right or wrong for the circumstances you are unhappy about.

[kernowayr]

So does anyone think I've been baited by my 5 colleagues as an attempt to get a reaction that would get me out of the way permanently? Of is that too far fetched a concept to contemplate as being in any way serious? After all, I stand to gain most £'s wise if redundancies come about as the year progresses (assuming I get to keep my job at the hearing of course!) I don't intend to mention this then btw.

[kernowayr]

Nor do I ever intend to let them get to me this badly ever again I hasten to add!

[kernowayr]

........... or that my general situation workwise has been engineered by my boss in a way that may **** me off enough to resign thus saving her the statutory redundancy payout I'm legally entitled to now?

[actionblusox]

i think you are putting too much thought into things that may or may not have happened.

 

either way, if they have then dont say anything and just keep your head down and quiet until your pay off.

if they havent happened then dont say anything and just keep your head down and quiet.

so far you have blamed the other 30 people, then your 5 colleagues and now your boss??????????????????????????????????????????????

so you have blamed everyone else except you, so just calm down and relax stay quiet and it will go away from your mind especially if it isnt happening.

if it is then come back to this forum and discuss it first..

[kernowayr]

o.k. thanks - that's what I intend doing (if I get the chance). Finger's crossed for a reasonably favourable outcome at my hearing eh?

[Sidewinder]

Whilst I can see the point that actionblusox makes above, I feel that it is perhaps a little harsh.

 

Leaving aside the issues of the history (although there does appear to have been a build up of ill-feeling) and focusing on the matter in hand, there are issues to consider which have a bearing on what action your employer should take. Although misuse of company e mail is a matter generally considered by employers as being a disciplinary issue, there should be clear guidelines as to what is and is not acceptable use. Whilst this may be covered specifically by a clause in a contract, it may also be governed by custom and practice. Therefore, if your employer has in the past allowed the sending of non business related e mail without complaint, then providing that the content of this particular is not offensive or containing profanity then you could argue that it is little different to e mails previously permitted by the employer so should warrant nothing more than a chat about e mail policy in the future (which should then be circulated for the avoidance of doubt on the part of your colleagues).

 

As to the disciplinary procedure, you are entitled to know when this was drafted and on what date you were given a copy in the past. Although there are certain acts which should be understood by all to be considered so serious as to warrant action for Gross misconduct (theft, violence etc), other areas should be covered by a written policy issued as a part of your contract or else made generally available in the form of a 'Company Handbook'. As stated before, if the employer has accepted the sending of e mail between staff for non business related matters in the past, then you should not now be disciplined on this occasion. What is considered acceptable and what not? Just because somebody has been upset doesn't neccessarily make this an 'unnaceptable' use of e mail.

 

Insofar as any sanction goes, you mention financial penaties? Absolutely not. Your salary is governed by contract and again would need a clear term whereby you accept that a transgression will result in a financial loss. The only thing which might be witheld is a discretionary bonus. Anything else is an unlawful deduction from your wages contrary to the Employment Rights Act.

[version302003]

I have to say I don't really see what your collegues have done wrong. It seems you are more worked up about a christmas party which you were afterall invited to tho they didnt have to.

 

You sent an email about a personal thing to 30 employees of a client. I understand that you feel/felt excluded but to be honest you have made that much worse by emailing the employees directly. If the email wasn't abusive etc then the email itself shouldn't b a problem however you still need to work with the staff and probably will be the most difficult thing.

[godpikachu]

I dont see anything wrong here either, and to be honest, your disciplinary is well justified.

 

What you have done is quite rightly considered to be gross misconduct, namely using company email to bad mouth people en masse for what is, quite frankly, a frivolous reason.

 

By doing this, you will have furthur alienated yourself in the eyes of your collegues, and probably ticked off those collegues who were sympathetic to you anyways.

Theres always a right way and a wrong way to go about sorting out your greivances, and in this case, you chose the wrong way, and, unless your bosses are very sympathetic towards you, it could cost you your job.

 

At your disciplinary, i'd advise that you apologise profusely for what you have done, and explain that you let things get on top of you and didnt deal with it very well, resulting in your outburst.

hopefully if you throw yourselves on their mercy, that, coupled with your good track record in the past will hopefully save you this time round, if not, well, i dot know what to tell you other than to watch your temper in future.

 

sorry if any of this seems harsh, but theres no use walking on eggshells in a situation like this.

[kernowayr]

I dont see anything wrong here either, and to be honest, your disciplinary is well justified.

 

By doing this, you will have furthur alienated yourself in the eyes of your collegues, and probably ticked off those collegues who were sympathetic to you anyways.

 

The email I sent to the 30 people started by thanking them for their Christmas cards and returned the good wishes explaining that due to how I was feeling at the moment I would not be reciprocating but said that I regretted feeling this way.

 

I then made reference to what had happened re. Christmas party and that the only apology/explanation I had received was not convincing and expressed surprise that as a individuals none of them had felt the need to be more inclusive highlighting the fact that if the boot had been on the other foot I would have "done the right thing" by whoever was being left on their own - said I found it a strange way to be treated by people you spend so much time with Monday to Friday and have no known prior issues with any of them on either a personal or professional level.

 

Admitted that almost a week after this event had occurred I was still distressed about it and thus felt the need to exorcise my demons by speaking to them all collectively and saying what I had been unable to say due to being unable to hold back the tears earlier in the week.

 

Stated that although I had allowed this to get to me I would not be played as a fool and therefore could not accept the explanation of oversight and that as so many things had happened in a short space of time the conclusion I had drawn was that it was deliberate and, if that was the case, I was having difficulty understanding what I'd done previously to warrant such exclusion.

 

I concluded by offering an olive branch stating that. despite what has happened I would be willing to take part in future celebrations such as birthdays and even contribute to shared food if someone would care to take the time to explain how this is managed amongst their group.

 

........... and that was about it really.

 

Following despatch of the e-mail I did not receive any e-mail or verbal replies (or even acknowledgement) from anyone that it had been read and again no apology for how I had been treated. I did, however, return to work this week and picked up some further christmas cards from people within that group which had been left on my desk in my absence away from the office during the last 2 days before the office shut down for the holidays. The people I spoke to casually at work previously still speak to me freely and I therefore do not believe I have alienated these people further as suggested.

 

Even my boss is speaking to me fairly normally and her very words when she gave me the letter about the discplinary hearing was a short and sweet "I have to give you this, I don't want to but I have no choice".

 

Any further comments?

[kernowayr]

Whilst I can see the point that actionblusox makes above, I feel that it is perhaps a little harsh.

 

Although misuse of company e mail is a matter generally considered by employers as being a disciplinary issue, there should be clear guidelines as to what is and is not acceptable use. Whilst this may be covered specifically by a clause in a contract, it may also be governed by custom and practice. Therefore, if your employer has in the past allowed the sending of non business related e mail without complaint, then providing that the content of this particular is not offensive or containing profanity then you could argue that it is little different to e mails previously permitted by the employer so should warrant nothing more than a chat about e mail policy in the future (which should then be circulated for the avoidance of doubt on the part of your colleagues).

 

No such document has ever been given to me (and presumably to no-one else either).

 

At worst I have caused the boss personal embrassment by detailing in my e-mail one example where I found her to act out of order on a personal level by inviting the 30 outsiders to participate in something else the other 6 of us we were doing as a group and had all paid towards and she had not herself contributed a penny.

As to the disciplinary procedure, you are entitled to know when this was drafted and on what date you were given a copy in the past.

 

As intimated previously I haven't seen the document before this week and never new it existed so may mention that as an opening statement but without further comment on the fairness or otherwise for her to rly upon its contents in the context of this haring - will save those comments for any subsequent appeal/formal action for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal as the need arises.

 

Although there are certain acts which should be understood by all to be considered so serious as to warrant action for Gross misconduct (theft, violence etc), other areas should be covered by a written policy issued as a part of your contract or else made generally available in the form of a 'Company Handbook'.

 

I did not send the e-mail to anyone outside the group of 30 who share the same floorspace in our office with us. I sincerely do not believe that any of the 30 people concerned have sufficient influence as to adverse affect/terminate any professional relationship with our firm on the strength of this one e-mail. The "damaged reputation" of the firm accusation is therefore somewhat exaggerated.

 

As stated before, if the employer has accepted the sending of e mail between staff for non business related matters in the past, then you should not now be disciplined on this occasion. What is considered acceptable and what not? Just because somebody has been upset doesn't neccessarily make this an 'unnaceptable' use of e mail.

 

Insofar as any sanction goes, you mention financial penaties? Absolutely not. Your salary is governed by contract and again would need a clear term whereby you accept that a transgression will result in a financial loss. The only thing which might be witheld is a discretionary bonus. Anything else is an unlawful deduction from your wages contrary to the Employment Rights Act.

 

As intimated previously my contract is, in my mind, barely worth the paper it is printed on and makes a clear statement that "no formal disciplinary procedures or grievance procedures" are in place at this firm. Once again I will save any comments I have along these lines for any subsequent appeal, E.T. Claim I may have to raise subsequently following this hearing.

My own feeling is that knowing the personality of the person concerned she probably will opt for the double-whammy of the final warning letter and deduction of wages penalty as an alternative to summary dismissal. It just remains to be seen how vindictive she wants to be as to how much dosh she wants to deduct and whether it will be a one-off sanction or an indefinite one at her discretion to revoke when she feels like it (just the same as it is at her discretion that my salary has ever been raised in the first place - she has never offered me a formal appraisal interview in 9 plus years - not sure what arrangements are in place about this with other staff but I suspect they all have proper contracts and have successfully negotiated such arrangements into those contracts e.g. that their salaries will be reviewed annually pending satisfactory performance etc.

[kernowayr]

What started off as being sad and disappointed at what had happened turned to anger when those brave enough to say anything tried it explain it away as an "oversight" implying, albeit indirectly, that they had momentarily forgotten I work there (or would be going to the party too). Then the icing on the cake was being told I had no right to be upset by any of this, including the lack of an apology (If I had genuinely overlooked someone in this way I would be tripping over myself to make amends). How can anyone else tell you what you can/cannot be upset about? If you're upset you're upset and that's that. Surely I can be forgiven that I've thought it all deliberate and just too much of a coincidence to have happened naturally?

 

The strange thing is the cards I did get from the group of 30 both before and after the e-mail - yet no response (yet) to my request for an explanation how I can join in on future things without waiting so patiently for an invite which may otherwise never come?

 

I would also point out that I can live with not having secret santa type presents (or even a lunch out in a restaurant with my colleagues at Christmas) but it is still nice to be asked and have the option of taking part or not surely? Is that too much to ask for?

[kernowayr]

I have to say I don't really see what your collegues have done wrong. It seems you are more worked up about a christmas party which you were afterall invited to tho they didnt have to.

 

{quote]

 

The 30 people I sent the e-mail to form a team which is only one small part of a much larger (client) organisation of our firm. I did not copy the e-mail to anyone at Director level or any other part of that company or any of our other clients. I therefore once more must refute the allegation that I have "damaged the firm's reputation" in any big way and if I have damaged it at all, then this is temporary - probably all forgotten about by most of the 30 recipients anyhow.

The party I was invited to was being hosted by the wider company as a whole and myself and 2 colleagues (who were both included incidentally) went as guests and, even though I still made my own way to the restaurant and was seen there by at least 2/30 I was still allowed to sit by myself, generally be ignored and eat alone - prompting questions from other people who knew me from other parts of the business as why? My only response "you tell me". With hindsight I should probably not have gone and had I realised that this was how the night would have turned out then I probably wouldn't have (nor will I accept such an invitation again in the hope that I will be included come the actual day of the meal).

Just put yourself in my shoes metaphorically speaking and ask yourself if this is an acceptable way to treat a guest of your company at its Christmas do (nor offer an apology afterwards). Surely I cannot be the only one who finds this behaviour questionnable.

[godpikachu]

The email I sent to the 30 people started by thanking them for their Christmas cards and returned the good wishes.......

 

...... and that was about it really.

 

 

The above should have been the entire content of your email.

 

Following despatch of the e-mail I did not receive any e-mail or verbal replies (or even acknowledgement) from anyone that it had been read...

 

and nor should you have...

 

and again no apology for how I had been treated.

 

Again, nor should you have.

You basically just insulted 30 people, including your immediate supervisor, if the boot were on the other foot, would you have liked to have recieved an email containing thinly veiled insults and drivel?.

 

No of course you wouldnt, and youd go running straight to the manager too to report me for sending you stuff by email.

 

Even my boss is speaking to me fairly normally and her very words when she gave me the letter about the discplinary hearing was a short and sweet "I have to give you this, I don't want to but I have no choice".

 

This is called "being civil", people now dont know how to speak to you, they know youve committed a big boo-boo, and they will probably know that you are up for a discaplinary, so theyre just going to play it cool around you until they know whats gone off.

[LilyLou]

godpikachu

 

Am with you on this, the OP appears to have blown a social event out of all proportion. Instead of joining in and making an effort, they seem to have isolated themselves and expected the other guests to put more effort in than themselves. The sending of the email, IMHO, was foolish and repercussions were to be expected. Don't quite understand why the OP thinks they deserve an apology off the other guests, If that was me that sent the email (in a moment of madness), I would be ashamed of myself.

 

Regards

LilyLou

[kernowayr]

godpikachu

 

Am with you on this, the OP appears to have blown a social event out of all proportion. Instead of joining in and making an effort, they seem to have isolated themselves and expected the other guests to put more effort in than themselves. The sending of the email, IMHO, was foolish and repercussions were to be expected. Don't quite understand why the OP thinks they deserve an apology off the other guests, If that was me that sent the email (in a moment of madness), I would be ashamed of myself.

 

Regards

LilyLou

 

All that I was waiting for was a cue from the 30 group to join them (particularly after having made the effort to get down to the restaurant by myself anyway) - this didn't come so, naturally, I was confused and wondering what I had done to deserve this? Wouldn't you? they were the established group of work colleagues - I was the outsider guest at that function after all. As stated in a previous post if I had later realised (as these people did) that someone had felt deliberately excluded and was genuinely upset by what had happened and the actions of the group collectively were not intentional (as I am supposed to believe is the case here) then as a member of that group I would have apologised profusely to the offended party - even if it was only to restore face for the group as a whole. That never happened either and hence the reason things escalated to the e-mail I sent which, I fully accept, my own emotions allowed to escalate to that level.

With hindsight I do acccept that using the work e-mail facs. in this way was professionally wrong and OTT it is now something that happened over 3 weeks ago now and, if it has probably been forgotten about/ignored by the 30 recipients by now, it is a fair penalty that I be given a written warning only at the hearing and that be the end of it. I've learned my lesson and won't be doing anything similar anywhere else ever again thank you. Or am I not allowed to make a mistake where everyone else on this planet is, is that it?

[kernowayr]

You basically just insulted 30 people, including your immediate supervisor, if the boot were on the other foot, would you have liked to have recieved an email containing thinly veiled insults and drivel?.

 

Best place would be the electronic bin then if that was the case, surely?

 

No of course you wouldnt, and youd go running straight to the manager too to report me for sending you stuff by email.

 

Maybe I'd think it through for a few days first before acting, like I did this time, and try some other way (ask their own line manager to have a quiet word with the sender directly maybe?)

 

O.K. I made it an issue to begin with but the recipient that drew it to the attention of my manager is just perpetuating it - under what motives God knows - they are unlikely to benefit in any way if I get the push at the hearing (not being employed by the same employer) so what difference should it make to any of them?

[kernowayr]

 

People now dont know how to speak to you, they know youve committed a big boo-boo, and they will probably know that you are up for a discaplinary, so theyre just going to play it cool around you until they know whats gone off.

 

Why should they know about the hearing that will take place about this?

Why do they need to be advised about the outcome?

As stated above, they do not even work for the same firm and surely, therefore, the matter is now between me, my boss (as owner of the firm) with a note-taker present who has no opportunity to comment or reason later divulge proceedings to anyone else afterwards?

I am not proposing to take a companion in with me though (couldn't think of anyone suitable to fill that role in such a small firm - hardly appropriate or helpful to take 1 of 5 work colleagues you were complaining of in the e-mail who might later discuss with other 4 (or even the original 30 recipients) is it?

I will probably write down what I want to say and take that with me when I go just so as it gets mentioned in the way I want it mentioned and recorded (& hopefully without too much emotion getting in the way preventing me from reading it out coherently either!). A good plan for once?

[lisaf]

Hi Kernowayr,

I really do sympathise with you although i wouldn't have reacted in the same way out of pride.

I have been and seen situations like your xmas one where certain people have been excluded etc and being the person that i am would have taken it personal (whether it was mean't or not).

I would never deliberately go out of my way to exclude someone (especially t xmas)! and if they had brought that to my attention, i would be mortified and ashamed.

For all of you who wouldn't take a blind bit of notice if that happened to you, then you are extremely lucky - and i'm very envious! But we are all different and have different strengths and weaknesses.

Just felt i had to say something!

Good luck with your meeting - keep strong

Lisa x

[kernowayr]

Hi Kernowayr,

I really do sympathise with you although i wouldn't have reacted in the same way out of pride.

I have been and seen situations like your xmas one where certain people have been excluded etc and being the person that i am would have taken it personal (whether it was mean't or not).

I would never deliberately go out of my way to exclude someone (especially t xmas)! and if they had brought that to my attention, i would be mortified and ashamed.

For all of you who wouldn't take a blind bit of notice if that happened to you, then you are extremely lucky - and i'm very envious! But we are all different and have different strengths and weaknesses.

Just felt i had to say something!

Good luck with your meeting - keep strong

Lisa x

 

Thank you Lisaf - at last someone else who is sensitive about such things too (even if you're not quite as headstrong as me). I am a musician (only amateur mind) so maybe this is my passionate artistic temperament coming out of me - aren't all arty types supposed to be passionate people after all?

What happened at Christmas was the icing on the cake following a lack of inclusion from the 30 following our move to the new offices 3 months earlier - the e-mail I sent gave me a prime opportunity to say something about that and offer an olive branch to them to mend their ways where me, my boss and our 5 other work colleagues who work on a different floor are concerned. All remains to be seen whether what I did has had any effect in that direction - I did get at least 6 more cards from them after sending the e-mail to all of them, one or two who had been at the party and ignored me there, so maybe that was the vital sign I needed to see that their guilt coming out and therefore the only apology I am ever likely to get now for their exclusiveness towards me. What do you reckon?

I am certainly feeling no friction in the office with any of the 30 people concerned and those that spoke to me before are still quite chatty and acting as if nothing happened (haven't even mentioned the e-mail or their opinion on it which is very generous/gratious of them in the circs.). I still don't feel comfortable telling anyone about the disciplinary hearing I've got to get through yet though. That's between me, the boss/employer and the notetaker she's appointed (not any of the people being complained of incidentally and not an employee of the client company either so quite independent and trustworthy so I am cool on her keeping confidences though won't be discussion the incident with her before/after the hearing either, for obvious reasons, including any prospect of appeal if the penalty is too harsh or extreme for what actually happened measured against the long/short term effects of my actions).