Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[bill-k]

 

Does anyone know anything about business accounts?

 

Not sure, but Andrew1 might know a bit, if you can find him.

 

HTH.

[tim2718281]

Are there any accountants here?

 

What would actually happen if a bank were to admit its charges were unlawful?

 

What would actually happen if a precedent-setting court were to rule the charges unlawful?

 

From the little I know about company accounting, it seems to me that the bank, or all banks in the case of a court judgement, would have to include the bank's liability in their financial results statements. My understanding is the directors of the bank cannot hide this or ignore it; they are legally obliged to inform shareholders of anything which may substantially affect the value of the company,

 

Tim

[JonCris]

Heads would roll because of all the claims they would be subject too.

 

Like the endowment miselling to mitigate their losses & their previous conduct they would probably be required to contact customers whom they had ripped off & invite them to submit a claim.

 

If that happened the shareholders would want blood on the carpet.

[Glenn UK]

Heads would roll because of all the claims they would be subject too.

 

Like the endowment miselling to mitigate their losses & their previous conduct they would probably be required to contact customers whom they had ripped off & invite them to submit a claim.

 

If that happened the shareholders would want blood on the carpet.

 

We can wish though!!!

[bill-k]

Nobody's head ever rolls up there. The worst that happens is that a bunch of fatcats take early retirement, with a disgustingly large golden a$$-kick. Not like Enron.

What I would like to see is a good old-fashioned mob marching on the City, with tumbrils & guillotines, etc. A few "resting" actors being dragged out and "beheaded" with the help of special effects guys. No real violence, of course, but maybe some soiled underwear in the NatWest Tower.

I think that's the nearest we'll ever get to them.

Cake, anybody ??

[Seminole]

Are there any accountants here?

 

What would actually happen if a bank were to admit its charges were unlawful?

 

What would actually happen if a precedent-setting court were to rule the charges unlawful?

 

From the little I know about company accounting, it seems to me that the bank, or all banks in the case of a court judgement, would have to include the bank's liability in their financial results statements. My understanding is the directors of the bank cannot hide this or ignore it; they are legally obliged to inform shareholders of anything which may substantially affect the value of the company,

 

Tim

 

You are broadly correct in your analysis. A general requirement to refund current and past charges to all customers would provoke accounting pandemonium. I am actually quite surprised that there hasn't been some comment on these lines in the financial press.

 

They key issue here is to get the Government to take the issue seriously. In my view unlawful bank charges are a far worse scandal than endowment or pension mis-selling. However, the powers that be seem to have the attitude that if they don't talk about the issue then it will go away. The banks' approach seems to be that if they quietly settle every claim without admitting liability and without it getting to court then they don't need to be concerned about their profits. The regulators in turn don't seem to be asking the questions they ought to be asking of the banks.

 

All this is why it is so important to encourage everyont to recleim their charges and why we need to campaign and lobby at the political level for this issue to be treated seriously. To do this we need to campaign effectively and be voical. It's also why a big turnout for the protest on 1 December is so important.

[JonCris]

We need their unlawful conduct to affect the share price. At which point we might be able to rely on the American Authorities taking some action. Their shares are traded on Wall Street & their regulators unlike ours ain't chocolate teapots that's for sure.

 

As for the press "he who pays the piper"

[cankster]

here is link to my thread any help would be ace

 

Cank vs Halifax

 

Contains copy of banks defence against contractual interest and limitation act

[purplecatlover]

ok some questions...

i went through my statements and pulled out all the charges, but ignored the interest charges. should i have also added the interest charges to the total?

 

can i wait until court claim and then claim the contractual interest instea dof the 8% if i havent tried to claim either beforehand?

[bram stoker]

ok some questions...

i went through my statements and pulled out all the charges, but ignored the interest charges. should i have also added the interest charges to the total?

 

can i wait until court claim and then claim the contractual interest instea dof the 8% if i havent tried to claim either beforehand?

You can claim any portion of the interest they charged you that relates to unlawful bank charges. Tricky to calculate, but an estimate can be made, try the advanced spreadsheet in my Chambers if you want to.

 

Contractual interest can be claimed on the charges, and the interest on the charges, from your very first letter. See the notes in my Chambers for more info, or discussions further back in this thread.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Gosh, I feel very privileged!

 

I've been living on overdraft for years - because of the banks' illegal charges. Therefore it's easy (I think and hope) to demonstrate that the contractural interest rate levied on my account is a financial loss I've incurred directly as a result of their charges - so I'm charging 16.9%, using Vampiress' recommended spreadsheet. It's demonstrable and straightforward and I don't have to get into arguments about reciprocity, possible millionaire widows who couldn't have waited to drag me to the altar, business opportunities, etc. which I don't think the courts would go a bundle on anyway because it's more than argumentative - it's speculative.

 

Of course, there is a further loss, which is the interest I've been charged on the rest of my borrowing, which has arisen as a result of their illegal (etc).

 

But that's another matter and would probably take me over £5K, so I think I'll do the 'political' thing - politics being art of the possible (according to the late, great Harold Wilson esq).

So - just the facts, ma'am.

[purplecatlover]

using the basic spreadsheet, i replaced the figure int he interest box with 18.69%, natwests current authorised overdraft interest rate. was this the right way to calculate the different ammount of interest?

 

also has the spreadsheet automaticaly compunded and acrued the interest for me? or do i need to start all over again?

 

as i am claiming the interest with my charges can i also claim the 8% on top of that now i am gettin ready to file my claim in court or am i missing something? if the 8% is the value that is added because of having to go through court then should it not be added onto the original (including interest at 18.69%) claim?

 

 

(and sorry if im being annoying or asking dumb questions, i have read so much stuff that i cant make sense of anything anymore and id rather ask than mess it up alltogether)

[bram stoker]

You can claim either statutory interest OR contractual interest, not both. The statutory interest is in place in case no contractual rate exists. You need to be able to argue the mutuality and reciprocity involved in the bank's contract with you to claim contractual rate.

 

There are more notes around the site and in my Chambers if you are interested in contractual interest.

 

As I'm not sure exactly which spreadsheet you are using, I cannot give any reassurance as to the calculations on it. Please clarify further.

[purplecatlover]

thanks Vampiress, I think iIam finally begin to understand the either or thing, I was forgetting that we claim for a daily rate each day after the claim is filed and thinking we stopped it on the date claim was filed.

 

I think im using the spreasheet no.2, I changed the interest amount in it from 18.2 to 18.86% to come up with a figure for an E.A.R. of 18.96%

 

However I think I may have to start again as I deleted extra rows and columns and now changing the date makes no diference to the claim ammount (which cant be right).

 

as a slight aside, am I right in thinking that the compounded part is the interest charged daily that increases as the interest is added to the initial charge, simple is a basic calculation that doesnt charge interest on the charge+interest but only on the basic charge, and contractual is simply the interest rate at which the bank charge us hence the mutuality and reciprocity? (I failed to understand interest types and calculations in maths at school too lol)

[bram stoker]

thanks Vampiress, I think iIam finally begin to understand the either or thing, I was forgetting that we claim for a daily rate each day after the claim is filed and thinking we stopped it on the date claim was filed.

 

I think im using the spreasheet no.2, I changed the interest amount in it from 18.2 to 18.86% to come up with a figure for an E.A.R. of 18.96%

 

However I think I may have to start again as I deleted extra rows and columns and now changing the date makes no diference to the claim ammount (which cant be right).

 

as a slight aside, am I right in thinking that the compounded part is the interest charged daily that increases as the interest is added to the initial charge, simple is a basic calculation that doesnt charge interest on the charge+interest but only on the basic charge, and contractual is simply the interest rate at which the bank charge us hence the mutuality and reciprocity? (I failed to understand interest types and calculations in maths at school too lol)

Sorry, you've confused me completely, I'll PM you.

[western promise]

I am claiming £2500 from NatWest and have been offered £1500.

 

I now intend to reject the offer and issue a claim online. I really cannot be fagged to work out the interest item by item on 100-odd charges over 6 years, so is it OK to say:-

 

1/ the average amount of my money NatWest had over the six years was half of the total £2500 I'm claiming;

2/ the average time they had it for was half of those six years (i.e. they had some of it for 6 years and some of it they've only just taken);

3/ the interest rate they charged was 18% most of the time

 

...and therefore I now claim 3 years' interest (= the average time they've had the money) on £1250 (the average amount they have had) compounded at 18%, i.e. another £804 (approx)?

 

Is an approximate calculation good enough for a SCC claim? As I see it they have had £3,300 off me if I include interest on that basis, so their £1500 offer is less than half what I have lost.

 

Also, does anyone have a rejection template? Maybe I am being a div, but I can't find the templates library anywhere.

 

TiA.

[Seminole]

I am claiming £2500 from NatWest and have been offered £1500.

 

I now intend to reject the offer and issue a claim online. I really cannot be fagged to work out the interest item by item on 100-odd charges over 6 years, so is it OK to say:-

 

1/ the average amount of my money NatWest had over the six years was half of the total £2500 I'm claiming;

2/ the average time they had it for was half of those six years (i.e. they had some of it for 6 years and some of it they've only just taken);

3/ the interest rate they charged was 18% most of the time

 

...and therefore I now claim 3 years' interest (= the average time they've had the money) on £1250 (the average amount they have had) compounded at 18%, i.e. another £804 (approx)?

 

Is an approximate calculation good enough for a SCC claim? As I see it they have had £3,300 off me if I include interest on that basis, so their £1500 offer is less than half what I have lost.

 

Also, does anyone have a rejection template? Maybe I am being a div, but I can't find the templates library anywhere.

 

TiA.

 

There is nothing to stop you making a claim on this basis but I really wouldn't recommend it, particularly if you are planning to use contractual interest. The claim should be supported by a reasonably accurate calculation and the spreadsheet templates have been written to make this as easy as possible. Claiming charges back is a serious undertaking and making a court claim is even more serious. You need to be prepared to attend court and explain your methodology to a district judge. I don't think the approach you are suggesting would impress him/her.

[Glenn UK]

To support what Seminole said, its always up to the claimant to prove their claim. The defendant has no obligation to prove you are wrong it may be useful to them but it is your responsibility to porve that your claim is just.

 

If you cant be bothered to work out the interest, and there are spreadsheets provided to help, then its a guess but you will probably struggle to prepare a case to argue, should your claim end up in court.

 

Of course it may not end up in court, but you should be always start out on the basis it will and be prepared to put the effort in.

 

My recommendation would be to omit the interest altogether unless you are prepared to put the work in to support your claim.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[tim2718281]

interest item by item on 100-odd charges over 6 years, so is it OK to say:-

 

1/ the average amount of my money NatWest had over the six years was half of the total £2500 I'm claiming;

2/ the average time they had it for was half of those six years (i.e. they had some of it for 6 years and some of it they've only just taken);

3/ the interest rate they charged was 18% most of the time

 

...and therefore I now claim 3 years' interest (= the average time they've had the money) on £1250 (the average amount they have had) compounded at 18%, i.e. another £804 (approx)?

 

Is an approximate calculation good enough for a SCC claim?

 

Provided you can show that the charges were evenly spread over the six years, then your calculation will deliver a result substantially less than the true amount (£800 instead of about £1200.)

 

Tim

[chuck2001]

Ok guys Im a little confused here. I am about ready to send off prelim letter for parents. Ive completed the advanced spreadsheet.

 

Am I right in assuming that I just include in the prelim letter the total of charges (column D) and interest on penalty's (column Q) and nothing at the moment in the 8% sheet as this is when I might have to start small claims proceedure.

 

Cheers guys

 

Chuck

[bill-k]

Chuck - are you claiming Contractual Interest ?

 

If so, then I don't think you need to claim 8% unless and until you Claim through the Court, and even then you only claim it "in the alternative."

 

Bill.

[lucid]

Ok guys Im a little confused here. I am about ready to send off prelim letter for parents. Ive completed the advanced spreadsheet.

 

Am I right in assuming that I just include in the prelim letter the total of charges (column D) and interest on penalty's (column Q) and nothing at the moment in the 8% sheet as this is when I might have to start small claims proceedure.

 

Cheers guys

 

Chuck

 

That's right Chuck. The 8% interest is statutory interest which you can't add on until you file a court claim. However if you're interested in claiming contractual interest (which is the topic of this thread) then you can claim that from the beginning - in place of the statutory.

 

Lucid

[Its WAR]

Western Promise.......the banks are desperate for a claim like yours.........its the one they will take to court and win.

[dolfos]

Hi,

Can anyone check out my thread:

Business account over 19,000 in bank charges. How do I tackle this one?

and tell me which spreadsheet is best for me to use with regards to compound or contractual I have got two very diffrent amounts.

I really do not want to make any mistakes on this one as my claim is pretty big for a closed business account.

many thanks in adavance.

(I have posted on my own thread but it was suggested I post on this thread too to try and get some deffinate advice on this interest topic.)

[neilvw]

Hi all - some help needed please.

 

MBNA is the only company I haven't yet sent a Prelim, because they were tardy in sending me my statements, and because the statements were set out in a way which made it difficult to calculate interest (no balances). Out of curiosity (as I wasn't thinking of claiming contractual) I've done the calculations using Vamp's excellent compounded contractual-interest spreadsheet. My Prelim to them will definitely use contractual. My six other claims are at LBA stage with no mention of contractual. I intend to revise them, as it would mean a potential £2,000 in extra interest.

 

BankFodder and others have said that it is best to start again with a Prelim as we should let the banks know we are claiming contractual from the start. I have heard one dissenting voice though, who argued that a revised LBA would be sufficient notice. I would prefer this latter option, as it would save two weeks. Any thoughts?