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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement


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Don't be daft, where would they get one of those?

 

David

Hi David!

Thanks for giving me a much needed laugh this sunday morning! Yes i think they would have difficulty finding one of those! an actual human!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi Thrubolt,

 

There are a lot of threads on Lowell. Capone just keep playing their stupid game - don't supply an original agreement as they are required to do, and then instruct different DCAs who all have to be seen off with the usual letters, and all the time it takes.

 

Sunflower and everyone else,

 

I thought they had shut up because I threatened to report them for harassment, but clearly they have gone quiet for a lot of us. I do hope they are leaving everyone alone, and not just those of us who are on CAG and fighting back.

 

They are probably reading CAG and realizing they are not going to be getting very far with a considerable number of us.

 

DD

Hi DD

yes they do probably get to realise who out of their many victims are Caggers when they start to get our letter informing them we are fully aware of our rights! I just feel so sorry for the poor people who have not discovered CAG yet but i think the numbers in CAG must be growing especially with how greedy these banks are getting.My MBNA account increased from about 17% something to 23% and 28% or something like that if i can remember rightly when going through my paperwork.and when i trawl through Crap ones ones i am sure i will see increases there as well.Before my major dispute with banks i was not very knowledeable about interest rates and impact of increases but i could see my cards were getting increasingly more difficult to reduce and with rising cost of living increasingly difficult to keep up minimum repayments . To make matters worse these banks just pile on the interest rates.It is sickening.

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I was reading somewhere that these calls are a machine which is calling just to work out what time of day you actually answer the phone, once this is established a human gives it a go.

 

Regarding Capone I haven't heard from them for quite some time now *shrug*

 

:roll:

Hi ZW

It is great Crap one giving you a bit of peace now! and you can give your printer a rest!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Morning all, thanks for quick replies yesterday, so, Crap one can sell account to a DCA who act wholly illegally with threat letters, also can't come up with original Notice of Assignment, the DCA give up because they know I can smack them with all sorts of problems because I have the proof letters from them that can land them in the ****. So , off goes the a/c back to Das Crapital, who then think - right, We acted illegally by not giving notice of assignment the first time - which is illegal in itself, so to make things correct this time we will send a letter that says Notice of Assignment BLAH BLAH - My point is this , Das Crapital couldn't do that the first time - so what makes them think that by doing it this way it makes things look correct in the eyes of the law, you see they acted blatantly illegal the first time, so should I complain again to the FSA and tell them whats going on - God - do I make sense to anyone and can you see where I am coming from with this - Phew.

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Evening all,

 

Have recently received the standard begging letter from the Leeds Losers stating that they have purchased an alleged debt from Crap One. I have written back refusing to acknowledge any debt and requesting a true signed CCA. Does this automatically place the account in dispute as I see from examining my credit report with Experian that Lowell's have registered a default on it?

 

Any input appreciated.

 

Flyers

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Morning all, thanks for quick replies yesterday, so, Crap one can sell account to a DCA who act wholly illegally with threat letters, also can't come up with original Notice of Assignment, the DCA give up because they know I can smack them with all sorts of problems because I have the proof letters from them that can land them in the ****. So , off goes the a/c back to Das Crapital, who then think - right, We acted illegally by not giving notice of assignment the first time - which is illegal in itself, so to make things correct this time we will send a letter that says Notice of Assignment BLAH BLAH - My point is this , Das Crapital couldn't do that the first time - so what makes them think that by doing it this way it makes things look correct in the eyes of the law, you see they acted blatantly illegal the first time, so should I complain again to the FSA and tell them whats going on - God - do I make sense to anyone and can you see where I am coming from with this - Phew.

 

Sorry, but a NOA can come from a third party, the original creditor has no legal duty to provide you with one.

 

Also, the account can go back and forth as many times as they can get away with. They can't sell it to two at a time though, they have to wait their turn! The good thing is that any DCA should be easy enough to chase off if there's no enforceable agreement - especially so if you ask exactly why they are chasing a debt that has already been passed back to Cap1 after being found to be a dud by the last DCA.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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I think this quote by x20 answers the both the dispute and the assignment questions:)

 

lexis,

Section 136(1), Law of Property Act 1925 says:

 

(1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice

(a)the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b)all legal and other remedies for the same; and

©the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

 

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice

(a)that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b)of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925.

 

You will note that while the assignment is required to be under the hand of the assignor, the notice to the debtor need not be. All that is required is that the debtor has express notice of the assignment. Express notice may be given by the assignor, assignee or some third party even.

 

A debtor mistrusting of a person claiming to be the assignee may enquire of the assignor for confirmation the assignment is genuine.

 

As for disputes, a dispute arises whenever creditor and debtor are not in agreement as to the rights and obligations which the one owes to the other. Where a creditor fails to comply in time with a request made under section 77 or 78 Consumer Creidt Act 1974, the creditor ceases to be entitled under the Act to enforce that agreement for so long as his failure to comply continues. If a creditor claimed a right to enforce the agreement whilst in default of his section 77 or 78 obligations and the debtor disputed that right, there would be a dispute. But it would only be a dispute about the right to enforce. It wouldn't be a dispute on the account, which by the nature of the language would be a dispute as to an amount owing. To place the account in dispute invariably involves the debtor raising as an issue that the creditor overstates his demand and to pointing to the way in which the creditor has overstated it.

 

If the debtor placed the account in dispute the creditor would be under a duty to take reasonable steps to investigate it and where the issue was found to be well maintained, to put the account right.

 

Disregarding a debtor's dispute would probably be unfair practice and possibly a breach of pre-action protocol if the creditor sued upon the agreement before completing a reasonable investigation. That is not the same as saying the commencement of legal proceedings would be unlawful. In my view and subject to something satisfactory to my questions in the following paragraph, and subject obviously to the creditor having an entitlement to sue provided by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, commencing proceedings would not be unlawful where the account was in dispute. The court will be able to decide the dispute and the rights of the parties generally, and may sanction the creditor in costs where it thought it right to do so.

 

When I ran a word search for 'assign'in The Data Protection Act 1998, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the OFT publication entitled 'Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices July 2003 (updated December 2006)', each time I got a 'text not found'. I would appreciate anyone able to quote the specific legislation or OFT guidance relied upon in support of the claim that either of the statutes contain provisions restraining a creditor from assigning an account in dispute.

 

x20

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Hi,

 

Just managed to receive my CCA from crap one, took it out online in may 2004. Front is the same as yours but back is slightly different and it appears there is a section 23??? looks suspect though

 

Edit: In fact at the top under the credit agreement bit it state :

 

These terms are taken from clauses 8, 10 and 23 of the terms and conditions you sign with us

 

Naughty naughty crapone

 

 

CCA Page 1

CCA Page 2

Edited by pmw1971
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Hi,

 

Just managed to receive my CCA from crap one, took it out online in may 2004. Front is the same as yours but back is slightly different and it appears there is a section 23??? looks suspect though

 

Edit: In fact at the top under the credit agreement bit it state :

 

 

 

Naughty naughty crapone

 

 

CCA Page 1

CCA Page 2

 

Same alledged cca as most of us!

 

Did they put it in writing that they'd not comply with your cpr request, only under continuous threat of court action from debitas I twice requested my agreement under cpr (by recorded mail) and twice ignored.

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Same alledged cca as most of us!

 

Did they put it in writing that they'd not comply with your cpr request, only under continuous threat of court action from debitas I twice requested my agreement under cpr (by recorded mail) and twice ignored.

 

Hi beachcomber, yep they did put it in writing and see if you can guess who sent it :grin::grin::grin:

 

CPR Refusal Page 1

CPR Refusal Page 2

Edited by pmw1971
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Hi beachcomber, yep they did put it in writing and see if you can guess who sent it :grin::grin::grin:

 

CPR Refusal Page 1

CPR Refusal Page 2

Hi PMW

Crap ones usual drivel! They dont seem to have the slightest clue about the law!still it would have been worse if they had come up with one! At least i think you can safely assume they have got a dodgy one as if they had one why dont they comply with your legal request and send it to you or arrange for you to view it so that the matter would be sorted ! sounds like they not got one! Are you going to write back and say that to them!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I am not sure if my next move to crapital one would be to send another informal letter pointing out defects and asking for an appointment or whether i should send that CPR request letter?

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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i am very tempted to send CPR letter!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Of course they did. Debitas Legal Services is a trading name of capitao One bank (Europe)plc. It says so on the bottom of their letters.

I am being percecuted with calls from Debitas for Capital One for a credit card debt so will keep an eye on your progress. I have SARd Capone but as far as I can seec what they have sent to me does not include any signed agreement.

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Of course they did. Debitas Legal Services is a trading name of capitao One bank (Europe)plc. It says so on the bottom of their letters.

I am being percecuted with calls from Debitas for Capital One for a credit card debt so will keep an eye on your progress. I have SARd Capone but as far as I can seec what they have sent to me does not include any signed agreement.

 

I started to get calls from their indian call center a couple of days ago. I refused to answer their security questions and they said they will keep ringing until i do. I told them they wont as i will be barring their calls immediately with bt's choose to refuse. They havent called since as I blocked their numbers :D

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Hi Version!

Good on you!The overseas call center are beyond a joke!When i was going through the overseas call centre phase with crapital one one of them threatened to phone me every few minutes when i refused to talk to them!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sunflower, I forgot to add that I got a reply to the letter i sent in post 312 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172543-just-recieved-signed-capital-16.html#post1953904

 

They completely ignored the question of whether the cca was a cut and shut and stated that they have supplied a cca and they will no longer correspond.

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