TBI threating Court Action

Readybrek · December 4, 2008

I asked for the CCA on the 14th Feb 2008 and sent the £1 off as I was due to be made redundant in March and heard nothing. Then at the start of November received a letter apologising for the delay but enclosed a copy of the CCA but it clearly states it is an application form but looks like it might have all the right information on it. So wrote back informing them that this was my application form and they have committed a criminal offence in delaying my information and know there solicoters have written back threating court action and insiting that this si definately a CCA.

This debt was sold to TBI from Liverpool and Victoria who orginally took out a CCJ in Oct 2000 and I am wondering what to do as cannot afford a CCJ as I would lose mt job.

Please Help can post letters and documents later.

PGH7447 · December 4, 2008

How old is this debt, and what is it for?

Readybrek · December 4, 2008

This debt is over 8yrs old and is for a credit card, Liverpool and Victoria sold it two years ago to TBI. I just accepted it and paid them £25 a month but thought i would Challenge them once I knew I was going to be made redundant. I do remember that L&V got a CCJ on it Oct 2000.

PGH7447 · December 4, 2008

When did you last make a payment, was it over 6 years ago, reason for asking it could be stat barred

Readybrek · December 4, 2008

No I am afraid last payment was on the 01/12/2007 or 01/01/2008. I know it is not stat barred but wondering if they can go for a CCJ after the orginal owner of the debt had one placed in 2000

PGH7447 · December 4, 2008

Pass on that, hopefully one of the legal lot will be along to advise on this

Readybrek · December 5, 2008

Here are my papers to look at so hope you can help me as a CCJ will cost me my job and future.

Also wondering if a SAR request would be helpful.

PGH7447 · December 5, 2008

Ok, the alledged agreement is simply an application form and does not contain any of the prescribed conditions

the second letter merley stats they may and the strange reference in para 6 that YOU state in YOUR letter that legal proceedings will be issued against you!!

I would send them this for starters

amended to suit

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER - LITIGATION ADVICE

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx , the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This period has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
You may not pass the account to a third party.
You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

I would also sar the original creditor to see what activities have been applied to this account.

I do not know if they can apply for a second ccj on this

Readybrek · December 5, 2008

Many thanks for that will get it done straight away and thanks again

surfaceagentx20 · December 5, 2008

I do not recommend you send a letter along the lines of PG7447's draft, well meaning though it certainly was.

If the agreement resulted in a judgment against you in 2000 it will not now be possible for TBI to bring a new action based upon the agreement. It is not a case of the agreement being statute barred, but simply that any new proceedings upon the agreement will amount to re-litigation. There is no need to re-litigate that which has resulted in a judgment and any new proceedings may be defended and dismissed on this ground.

That David Jones speak of beginning a new action indicates they are unaware of the judgment of 2000 and I think it best to leave them ignorant of that fact.

The real question is therefore, what may TBI do today in light of the 2000 judgment?

Section 24 and section 38 Limitation Act 1980 say this:

24 Time limit for actions to enforce judgments

(1) An action shall not be brought upon any judgment after the

expiration of six years from the date on which the judgment

became enforceable.

(2) No arrears of interest in respect of any judgment debt shall be

recovered after the expiration of six years from the date on which

the interest became due.

38 Interpretation

(1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires

"action" includes any proceeding in a court of law, including an

ecclesiastical court;

Unfortunately the combination of the definition of 'action' in section 38 combined with the use of the word in section 24 took a knock for the worse in Lowsley v. Forbes (1998) HL.

According to the House of Lords (there ain't no court supremer) the meaning of section 24 of the Limitation Act 1980 applies to the commencement of fresh proceedings on the judgment, and not to procedural steps in the original action to enforce the judgment. In Lowes, the court granted permission to the creditor to obtained garnishee / third party debt orders and a charging order against the debtor 11.5 years after they had obtained a consent judgment.

In the circumstances, if David Jones had his head screwed on right and knew about the old judgment, he would not begin new proceedings, either because new proceedings on the judgment would be barred by section 24 or because of the rule against re-litigation. Instead, he would apply to the court for permission to enforce the 2000 judgment. This is because permission is required to enforce judgment which are in excess of six years old. Any application would be on prior notice to you and you would therefore be entitled to make representations to the court why the application should be refused.

In the circumstances, I recommend you lay low and don't go roaring your head off. I wouldn't want you to stir TBI into action any more than you have done already.

x20

Readybrek · December 6, 2008

Thanks for the reply so does mean not reply at all and not request SAR.

Also sorry for my ignorance but if they do try to force a CCJ and I have it thrown out does this mean the debt is not enforceable or can they can they still try it on. As I said earlier at the moment a CCJ would mean dismissal and no future.

Thank You

Readybrek · December 28, 2008

I sent this letter to TBI and solicoter

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER - LITIGATION ADVICE

Thank you for your letter of 02/12/2008, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the 14/02/2008 I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the 14/02/2008 I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.