Bryan Carter CCJ can anyone help??

[vikki75]

but this case is the most ludicrous award for me

do we have an award system so i can place my vote

 

I couldnt agree with you more. The last few years of being with this bank have been hell and getting the court papers from bryan carter have just been the final straw. If there is any compensation available then I am willing to do what it takes to get it!!

[eviltwin_sco]

Q: What is happening with the law on unfair bank charges?

A: On 27 July, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), Lloyds TSB, six other UK banks and a building society started a court case to decide on the legality of unauthorised overdraft charges. Together, these banks and the building society provide more than 93% of current accounts in the UK.

This case is being called a 'test case' because the decision will clarify the law in this area and is likely to apply to all current and new claims against current account providers about unauthorised overdraft charges.!

 

i am off to find out more about this court case

[eviltwin_sco]

???? could this high court case be the cause of the contradiction - as in the bank already lost pre high court ruling, appeal and the waiver placement and the banks new charges arising within the waiver hence the cheek of the bank bringing you to court????

 

the cheek confidence enforce by the fos allowing waiver and oft stiil assessing whether they’re actually unfair

 

but by their none corespondence until the proceedings did this not prevent you from

‘hardship case’ exemption to the hold (waiver) on reclaiming.

also where you have not reclaimed current charges under ‘hardship case’ exemption to the hold on reclaiming you have most certainly made the bank aware of hardship via appropriations letter to which they have ignored

 

but here

you won the first case not only on the grounds of charges but the fact they were obtained from benefits

 

and did the fact of the benefits have strong bearing on previous judgement?

 

or am i wayyy of mark here????

[vikki75]

Well you have lost me lol. They previous claim was just the standard one off here and as far as i'm aware it didnt draw alot of attention to the fact that they were taken out of benefits. the bank defended then paid up so it was settled out of court. When we tried to claim the last lot back we were told by the courts that we would have to wait as the fso case was on going. By the time we could claim I was seriously ill in hospital and we missed all the dates to issue the claim forms.

[eviltwin_sco]

Well you have lost me lol.

 

and we missed all the dates to issue the claim forms.

you never missed the date as the waiver rule is still preventing you

 

The amount being pursued is a result of bank charges and the bank is preceding court action under an agreement which you did not make

However, you have prior the pending court proceedings attempted a claim of the bank charges which had you been successful would have erased the debt - but

You were unsuccessful in reclaiming your bank charges due to the ongoing OFT V Banks high court test case.

“When we tried to claim the last lot back we were told by the courts that we would have to wait as the fso case was on going”

Because the court could not hear it due to FSA’s waiver i.e.

When the test case appeal was announced in July 07, the regulator, the FSA, issued a one year waiver to the banks which effectively placed a hold on all reclaiming as neither the banks nor the Ombudsman had to deal with claims.

This waiver was then extended to until the 26 January 2009, when it expects that there will be a decision by the Court of Appeal. It has said it will continue to monitor the situation, but that all cases will remain on hold for the moment.

So your Case has Remained on hold only because of the oft trial case and rhe appeal and the waiver rules

ON HOLD

so if your claim is on hold how can the bank pursue it?

oh oh I know that answer by inventing an agreement that never and does not exist

( seriously I realise what it means to you being on hold but what did it mean to the banks it being on hold( there right to pursue it))

Surely if you are not allowed to persue it then neither should they as it is ON HOLD for both parties

Where you were originally prevented claiming with these particular bank charges under FSA waiver rules

You should have also been able to persue the bank charges under FSA waiver rules due to financial hardship criteria

I think the financial hardship guidelines apply to me, what should I do?

A. Contact your bank urgently and tell it that under the FSA’s waiver rules you believe you fit the financial hardship criteria and would like your case to be dealt with straight away. This applies whether you've already started your reclaim and it's on hold or if you haven't started it at all.

 

Also you where you did not make a claim under hardship the bank was/is more than aware to you hardship

 

proof via appropriation letter which gave a strict breakdown of the tight expenditure of your finances.

Also I am sure within these waiver rules there is a clause not to persue debt (anyone?)

Is their not away to make your persuers aware of this and how they have potentially breecheed FSA waiver rule

FSA waiver rule which is what prevented you relieving this debt initially

 

 

 

anyone ?????

[vikki75]

When you put it like that it makes sense as like you said, if we could ahve gone ahead with the claim then the debt would not exist so why is it that they are able to take us to court and not the other way round? If the case is that they should not have taken us to court until the 'hold' is released then is this not a breach of the fso waiver and therefore quite serious?

[eviltwin_sco]

i genuimely don't know if they can

 

and if they can't are they using this allegedly agreement to get around

they are not directly persuing the debt but the breech of an agreement

 

also can you, even whith impending court case, initiate a bank charge claim under fda waiver hardship???

which would deffinate put spanner in thier works

 

I would put thes facts/questions (minus the spanner hehehe) informally to fsa via telephone on grounds the bank is being unreasonable

 

perhaps others on this forum may have more knowledge

 

please you gurus out there

[vikki75]

Just found this in the FSO waiver conditions

(14)the firm must not take into account the period between 27 July 2007 and the date of termination of this direction (the "stay period") for the purposes of relying on any limitation period (or periods) or time limits within which complainants must:

(a) make relevant charges complaints;

(b) refer relevant charges complaints to the Ombudsman; or

© bring claims before the court;

Not sure if it is relevent but to me that says they are in the wrong! The full conditions are here http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/disp_monthly.pdf

[eviltwin_sco]

i dont think that particular rule helps you

my interpretation of 14

 

if you want to make a claim for bank charges and it would have rann out dec 13th in normal days (pre waiver rule)

jan feb march april may june july aug sept ocber november dec jan feb mar apr blue = fooked i have ran out of time

if you had not made it by dec 13th you were fooked

 

but because you are being prevented due to waiver rule from actioning charge claim they cant include the time the waiver clock is ticking

 

jan feb march april may june waiver rule startsjuly aug sept ocber november dec waiver rule ends jan feb mar apr may june

 

push the pause button on you time limit to action bank charge claim while the waiver is being enforced

[eviltwin_sco]

however i would say your complaint is in a state of stay

and

(15)

to the extent that sums are ultimately to be paid to complainants in respect of relevant charges complaints that have been stayed, the firm must include in these sums an element of compensation in respect of interest charged to or lost by the customer as a result of being out of money during the stay period;

 

(4) the firm must, in respect of each relevant charges complaint referred to it after the 2007 direction, keep a record of the complaint, the date it was received and the terms and dates of any subsequent communication with the complainant about the matter and must inform the customer that it has recorded the complaint for the purpose of complying with the conditions of this direction;

(5) the firm must continue to maintain and preserve personal current account and other records concerning customers that incur or may have incurred unauthorised overdraft charges (whether or not they have complained) that are (or could be) relevant for the handling of existing or future relevant charges complaints by the firm, the Ombudsman, the court or otherwise; these records must be maintained and preserved in a way which ensures that they are as easily and readily available for the period until this condition terminates as they were when the 2007 direction started;

 

 

 

surely there is better guidance than these it imo sparse

[vikki75]

Any more on the AQ bit as I'd like to get it filled and sent off.

 

Thanks

[ScabHunter]

I've made some amendments, as I think it is important to try to get them to provide copies of communications as well, as these clearly show that you have continually protested about their unlawful conduct, and they have persistently ignored you.

 

N149 FORM

 

A Settlement

 

As the mediation service is free, the court will expect you to be willing to use it, so answer "Yes" to this one.

 

B Location of Hearing

 

If the form is to be returned to your local court, answer "No". If it isn't, then answer "Yes", and write "Defendant's home court, and defendant is an individual".

 

The form certainly should need to be sent to your home court - if not, something has gone wrong.

 

C Track

 

Answer Yes

 

D Witnesses

 

Fill in with a zero unless you will need to call on someone else to witness anything you are going to be claiming at the hearing.

 

E Experts

 

No to first question - leave everything else blank.

 

F Hearing

 

(Fill in any dates which would be difficult for you)

 

Interpreter - No

 

G Other Information

 

Write "Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the claimant on **/**/2008"

 

H Fee

 

No (not payable by defendant)

 

 

ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER, DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS

 

In the ************* County Court

Claim number **********

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

************* - Claimant

 

and

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order file and serve the following:

 

* Copies of the Credit Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim, and any documents referred to within it which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon

 

* Copies of all statements for the duration of the alleged agreement, used to establish a balance on the alleged account

 

* Copies of all communications, including letters and transcripts of telephone conversations, for the duration of the alleged agreement.

 

* Copies of any other document to be relied upon

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

 

* An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant

 

 

And, on another sheet of paper, print this -

XXXXXXXXXX -v- XXXXXXX

Claim No: xxxxxxxxx

 

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

Section G - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

1. On xx/xx/xxxx I forwarded a request for information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules Part 31.14, for a copy of the agreement mentioned in the Particulars of Claim. Despite the fact that Civil Procedure Rules Part 31.15 insists that the claimant furnishes this document within seven days, my legitimate request was completely ignored.

 

2. On xx/xx/xxxx I forwarded a request for information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules Part 18, inculding details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers, and copies of statements for the entire duration of the alleged agreement. Also, copies and transcripts of any communications between the claimant and the defendant, including but not limited to; letters and transcripts of telephone conversations relating to both the unlawfulness of charges deemed unlawful by the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, and the applying of charges in violation of the claimant's own Terms and Conditions, including charges caused by the premature withdrawal of funds by Direct Debit.

 

These documents are necessary to establish the balance on the said account, to establish the percentage of the balance caused by unfair terms under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and therefore not binding on the defendant, and to establish whether or not the defendant is indeed indebted to the claimant to any degree. My legitimate request for this necessary information was ignored.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

The parts in red are the parts I have added. Unless anyone else has any further amendments, this is what I would send.

 

SH

[vikki75]

Thanks SH I will print that out later. Does that copy going to carter need to go recorded?

[ScabHunter]

No, just send it through the bog standard second class post. It is only a "courtesy". Although you may justifiably wonder why you should show courtesy to such a character, it is fundamentally for the benefit of the court.

 

There is also the side issue that an allocation questionnaire which demonstrates that you are fully aware of your legal rights increases the chance of vexatious claimants deciding to discontinue, but that of course is a complete irrelevance.

 

SH

[vikki75]

Thanks for the info. I will be posting tomorrow so I guess its just a waiting game to see if they comply

[vikki75]

Ok AQ's have been handed into the court and the copies sent to carter. I guess now all we do is wait? Had a bit of a strange letter that was tried to be delivered today for a 'faith falcon' it was a recorded letter, nobody of that name has ever lived here so just wondering if it could be an attempt to try to get us to sign for something. Hubby is going to collect it later but is only going to print his name just incase

[ScabHunter]

It is now just a case of waiting to see what happens next. Carter will have to decide whether or not to spend more money in his quest to take yours away.

 

It is insane, really. They have got no justifiable reason for demanding this money, as it is clearly all made up of unlawful charges. Even if they did get judgment, they would only get £1 a month given the circumstances you are in, yet they are prepared to spend money issuing TWO court claims for which they could end up having to pay wasted costs. As a risk-reward scenario, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

As for the letter, I can't shed any light on that. It may just be a genuine mistake someone has made. I'm not exactly sure where you stand legally signing for something with an unrecognized name on it. Certainly you would be breaking the law if you opened the letter. Best to see someone senior in the post office and take advice.

 

SH

[vikki75]

Thanks for that SH. I take it the court will let me know if and when BC complies with the CPR request? Will the documemts be sent direct to us or to the court?

Sorry for all the questions i've just never had a claim go this far before so i'm a bit worried about the whole thing.

Vikki

[ScabHunter]

Carter is never going to comply with the CPR request now. If he had any intention of doing so, he would have done it before.

 

You should hear from the court about the draft order for directions, and the allocation to track (which will almost certainly be small claims track in this case), although this will probably not happen until Carter has filed his AQ.

 

Earlier in the thread I put a link to the jadzia.dax1 case, where Carter was continually given leeway by the court in extending the time he had to file his AQ, until he eventually decided to throw in the towel. It is worth going back and reading that thread, as something similar may well happen here.

 

Try not to worry about this. So far, you have done everything by the book and Carter has done nothing by the book. The charges on the account are punitive and you do not owe them. Hopefully somebody will realise that.

 

SH

[CDT]

This is my fist posting so please bear with me.

 

I have been given a CCJ to the tune of 3.5k from the LLoyds TSB. This sum has been built up less a couple of hundred, entirely by charges. During the process I disputed all the charges but to no avail. As usual they chose the infamous Northampton court to get the judgement placed, which I live approximately 200 miles from!! However, when all this started, I was having my wages paid into the account every month, and had very little (if any) problem/s. I then changed job and my payment day changed. I informed all the usual, mortgage etc and had payment due dates changed. This however took a month (due to my timing) to all come square. I then recieved a fine for the London C Charge, which I disputed, only to find that a couple of months later my car had been clamped at 5 am with a £600 release fee. I needed my car for work, so having no other means to pay this amount, I stupidly went and got a cheque cashed at a local broker. The broker within a week, put this cheque in and LTSB paid it!! even though the funds were not, and were not expected to be in until a fortnight later. I took this matter up with the broker, who to be fair were very helpful and appologetic for their mistake and offered to pay any charges due. This they did, YES its true with no hessitation as well!!! However, this is not where it ended. LTSB slapped me hard and fast for this by taking ALL my wage one month to pay it off, therefore leading to other arears such as mortgage insurance etc. Plus adding charges on top.

 

I contacted them offering a payment plan, which they accepted, however they did state that as long as my wages go in they will take the amounts due. Where is the plan there then? This continued for another month where yet again they took the whole amount leaving me with nothing and so the ball continued to roll out of control. I immediately opened another account with another bank and had my wages put into that. I still contacted LTSB in order to com to an agreement. After many calls I have to say, I gave up!! The rest as they say is history. I could not attend the court, due to time and distance.

 

Although may help my defence during this time my wife was going through a hellish court case (i cant say what) and this together with that led to a severe breakdown.

 

With all this in mind, can I still make a claim against these charges, as I don't believe at this time the first test case had not been made.

 

Regards

CDT

[vikki75]

Well like everyone on here predicted my carter chickened out... hmmmm I wonder why.

What is the next step now for claiming back costs?

 

Vikki

[ScabHunter]

Well like everyone on here predicted my carter chickened out... hmmmm I wonder why.

What is the next step now for claiming back costs?

 

Vikki

 

Excellent!

 

Just one note of caution. You need to make sure that the news is real! Don't believe it until you hear it from the court itself.

 

Yes, that wonderful upstanding citizen Mr. Carter has even been known to send out fake notices of discontinuance, so that defendants would be out of time, and he would get judgment in default. Little angel, isn't he?

 

Don't be conned by this slimeball. Be absolutely sure that the news is genuine.

 

If it is, congratulations, and we will now work on trying to make Carter pay for issuing his frivolous, insolent claim.

 

SH

[vikki75]

Hi SH.

 

The letter from him goes as follows.

 

Please find attached for your information, a copy of the notice of discontinuance forwarded to southport county court.

 

Then there is a notice of discontinuance of proceedings dated the 20/01/09 N-279- notice of discontinuance of proceedings or withdrawal of part of claim. Order 18. Rule 1.

 

Going to ring the court now and see if they have recieved anything off him.

[supasnooper]

Well done and hit them for costs.

 

have a look through pt2537 posts - should be something about applying for costs.

[ScabHunter]

Any further news on this one?

 

If the court can confirm that Carter has definitely discontinued, then it is time to prepare a wasted costs order. It mustn't be left too long.

 

SH