Bryan Carter CCJ can anyone help??

[vikki75]

Today I recieved a claim form for Northampton cc regarding a joint account that my husband and I held with Nationwide. This account was overdrawn because of various bank charges that they took out because direct debits were occasionally going out earlier than agreed and we did not have the funds in to cover them. We sent Nationwide all the required letters asking for the charges to be refunded but it never went to court due to the case with the FSO and the waiver that the banks recieved regarding the unfair charges.

 

We never recieved any letters from Nationwide or any DCA until this claim form dated 26th Nov.

The Particulars of the claim are as follows:

 

The claimant's claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under account number ************** but has failed to do so.

 

This statement is untrue and we never set up any agreement with either Nationwide or Bryan Carter. My husband phoned BC today and was told that they did not have a copy of the agreement on file and they had not been provided with a copy of the agreement by the client who claims to have this agreement. In the telephone conversation today BC claim's to have sent us several letters dating back to July all were supposedly sent to our present address and the only documents that reached us were the claim forms recieved today. When I asked if they would send me copies of these letters they refused to do so and told me they would only be provided if the case goes to court.

 

Obviously we are going to defend the claim on the basis of this is unfair and untrue and was just wondering if there is anyone who can help me out with what to put as this is my first time filing a defence.

 

After reading through posts on here I'm planning on sending BC a CPR request and then see where that gets us.

[ScabHunter]

You will get plenty of help with this as Carter is not exactly loved in these parts. If you haven't seen it yet, have a look at ODC's new avatar.

 

Firstly, you have done EXACTLY the right thing in posting this up now, rather than waiting until the last minute, or even until it is too late, as so many before you have done.

 

When I asked if they would send me copies of these letters they refused to do so and told me they would only be provided if the case goes to court.

 

Well where else are they thinking of taking it, the planet Neptune? Extraordinary behaviour, but so typical of Carter and his like.

 

It won't be an easy defence to compile, as it is a rather more complicated case than the usual credit card account with no enforceable agreement. Nevertheless, with time on your side, we will compile it effectively and in good time.

 

Get ready to file Acknowledgment of Service to give you more time, and then, as you say, make a request under the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Is what you have posted here the full Particulars of Claim?

 

SH

[NailPost]

If the statement made by Carters is untrue they should be challenged to prove it - the exact term I think is "put to strict proof". If they claim it was made in writing then the note has to be produced, if a phone call then a recording and so on. Challenging this particular company usually sees them running for the hills.

 

You should also challenge Nationwide as to the status of this account and ask them why they have engaged this particular company. Remind them that they are responsible for the action of their agents and that if a complaint is made as a result of Carters incorrect claims then they will be included in that complaint.

 

It also seems to me that Nationwide should be taken to task for passing this account onto collectors when it was already subject to action for the recovery of unfair charges. I'd start shouting and screaming in the direction of Nationwide and threatening to bring in the watchdogs - television variety!

Edited November 27, 2008 by NailPost
typo

[ScabHunter]

Can we just clear up one thing here - on the claim form, is the Nationwide listed as the claimant with Carter as the solicitor and the address to send papers to, or is Carter the claimant?

 

SH

[creditcardmug]

Yes also the full Particulars of Claim word for word is needed im afraid, in order to give ant sort of advice.

[vikki75]

Hi, Nationwide are listed as the claimant. The Particulars of the claim word for word are as follows.

 

The claimant's claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under account number ************** but has failed to do so.

And the claimant claims the sum of £300.22.

 

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to s.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to £8.56..

 

Hope this makes more sense to you then it does to me, my head is battered with it all

[ScabHunter]

Right, the first step is to request information under the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Under CPR 31.14, you can request copies of any document listed in the Particulars of Claim. Here, that is just one document - the agreement.

 

Under CPR 18, you can make a far more comprehensive request.

 

Although the agreement forms part of the request under Part 18, I would still make both requests separately. The Part 18 request is often only partially complied with, and in the case of the Part 31.14 request, you are just requesting one crucially important document, so they either have to comply fully or totally ignore the request.

 

I will post the letters next.

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

CPR 31.14 letter -

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the document mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document I have requested is copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the document I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

CPR 18 letter -

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR 18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 18 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

These need to be sent to Carter and not to Nationwide, if Carter's name is listed in the second box down, the one which says "Address for sending documents and payments (if different)."

 

Send them Special Delivery as Carter never seems to sign for recorded delivery items. DO NOT SIGN THE LETTERS. If you are printing your letter, you can use a digital signature that is nothing like your own.

 

One other vital question - is £300.22 the amount that the overdrawn account would have had as its balance, roughly? Or is it much lower?

 

SH

[vikki75]

Thank you so much for the letters I will get them posted at the weekend. As for the balance with Nationwide I think it was more in the £200 mark but has had various things added to it. I cant be 100% sure on that one though as the original letters we sent have been lost on our comp .

[creditcardmug]

Hi, you need to go online and acknowledge service, using the password on the front of the claim form tick defend all of the claim, and print off the receipt when prompted.

 

Then file this as your defence, again online,

 

 

Defence

 

 

Ixxxxxxxxxxxxxxx make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

1.The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

 

2.No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon

 

3.Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit

 

4.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

 

 

 

 

Then, send this to Carters recorded, keep the receipt,

 

 

' Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court.

 

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead yor clients case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement and Default Notice upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be transferred to my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event. In those circumstances you should plead in accordance with the CPR.

 

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'.

[vikki75]

Thanks do I sent that letter along with the letter posted by SH?

[NailPost]

You could to save the postage but I'd sent it special delivery as well. When Carters get flooded with your mail they won't know how to handle it. They may even seek legal advice! In all probability they will discontinue. That's the time to hit them for a claim for your costs - all the special devlivery postage plus your time in reasearching and preparing. If Carters refuses to pay up you could start a claim against the company.

[vikki75]

Thanks for that I will get them all off tomorrow. Should I filed my defence online now so that my side is done?

[vikki75]

I have just recieved the first letter of BC dated yesterday telling me that they have filed the claim and I will be recieving the court papers within the next 48hrs.

[creditcardmug]

Yes you can file the defence now

[vikki75]

Defence done and letters printed and ready to be posted tomorrow. Guess the ball is in their court now lol

[rev.ian]

He will never go to court with this one, well done.

[vikki75]

Well have just sent all of the letters off to him via special delivery so I guess I just have to wait and see what happens now

[havinastella]

Vikki,

 

How much are the charges on this account? How long have you had the account.

 

This may be a great way to counterclaim for the charges on the account. I have a good setoff defence espically if you have lots of charges to be refunded.

 

 

JOgs

[vikki75]

The total balance was created by charges that the bank took out despite letters asking them not to take them out of benefits as that was all that went into the account. Do I have to pay to do a counter claim?

[havinastella]

The total balance was created by charges that the bank took out despite letters asking them not to take them out of benefits as that was all that went into the account. Do I have to pay to do a counter claim?

 

Yes, you have to pay for a counterclaim, but this defense would be a setoff defense, so no charge.

 

What would the full total of charges on this account amount to?

 

Jogs

[vikki75]

Sorry forgot to put that, the full charges are just over £300 and then there is £80 in fees. Does it matter that I've already filed a defence?

[vikki75]

I recieved the receipt of my defence from the courts today so BC now has 28 days to reply to the court.

My letter was recieved and signed for via special delivery on the 2nd dec so he has 7 days to send me all the required documents.